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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
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Communard

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No, enewald will just eat him :)
Now, now, you may disagree with yourworstnightm, but is calling him a baby really fair? :p
 

unmerged(247551)

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Now, now, you may disagree with yourworstnightm, but is calling him a baby really fair? :p
No, that wouldnt be fair, I agree. But I think it doesnt matter. For such a longterm enemy, Enewald can probably fast two days and then the size of the meal doesnt matter :)
 

Phalanxia

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+1 for including Emperor Meiji

This update also provided conclusive evidence that the imperialism and forced industrialisation of Africa which I long argued against is sheer madness, and a money sinkhole.
 

Enewald

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FFS, tear apart Russian Empire!
Ukrainians, Tartars, Siberians, Caucasians, Byelorussians, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Ingrians, Mordvas, Turkmens, Uzbeks, Khazaks, etcetera...
Trotsky replaced their masters with his former comrades! Outrage!
Tear that behemoth down!!!

Necazian dead?

Of the old guard, I am still alive. :cool:
 

Konnigratz

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+1 for including Emperor Meiji

This update also provided conclusive evidence that the imperialism and forced industrialisation of Africa which I long argued against is sheer madness, and a money sinkhole.
Huh? The industrialization of Africa is proceeding rapidly, and is on par with some European areas of the VSVR. It can only be hugely profitable. How is that madness and a money sinkhole?
 

Tommy4ever

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This update also provided conclusive evidence that the imperialism and forced industrialisation of Africa which I long argued against is sheer madness, and a money sinkhole.
Funnily enough African industry is very profitable whilst European industry costs me a hell of a lot.

This is because the factories I first built in Europe are no longer profitable, but are so large that closing them and building new factories would be terrible for the VSVR (millions unemployed).

However since Africa industrialised later it has almost exclusively profitable factories.

Whilst there are some factories that aren't any of the following types the vasat majority are: Lumber (very profitable), Cement (always profitable and a safe bet), Luxury Furniture (reasonably profitable, mostly built in the Lux days as in game capis love to build it), Oil Refineries (again in game capis mostly, it just makes profits but not much), electric gears (growing gets more profitable as industries that use them expand), Telephones (new and very, very worth while).

So African industry is in some ways supporting European industry. That being said all the investment comes from Europe so look at that situation however you like.

The Imperialism debate is one you could come on either side of.

FFS, tear apart Russian Empire!
Ukrainians, Tartars, Siberians, Caucasians, Byelorussians, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Ingrians, Mordvas, Turkmens, Uzbeks, Khazaks, etcetera...
Trotsky replaced their masters with his former comrades! Outrage!
Tear that behemoth down!!!

Necazian dead?

Of the old guard, I am still alive. :cool:
Enewald can never die!

You first came in in the Civil War (1883-1884). Assuming the youngest I can make you then is 25 then today in 1905 you are in your mid 40s. So you'll be slightly older than Necazian at his death by 1936. You can probably stay alive until the end. Unless there comes a decent time to kill you off. :p :D
 

keynes2.0

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((Overall, I very much like this AAR and don't mind you taking it in a world war direction even if I voice political disagreement to those actions. But if I was going to list a main complaint it would be that I fear that this AAR is in danger of developing Mary Sue syndrome. We all know that once you reach a certain level of power in Vicky you can pretty much do whatever you want and the AI can't stop you. But that doesn't make a good story. The game does a horrible job capturing things that restrict empires (minority separatism? What's a minority?) and does an even worse job if you use indirect control. I'm especially worried because if you didn't actually install communist dictatorships in France and Russia, then there is no way for there to be resistance to the new communist overlords. I think you should take this AAR any direction you like, but beware the Mary Sue effect.))
 

WelshDude

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I actually just left them as the government they were. Communist regimes in this AAR frequently revert to democracies, since liberal parties can be appointed the entire upper house becomes liberal, the AI reforms and becomes a democracy. So there isn't much point in changing that in game. However I edited their flags and changed the Russian Empire to Soviet Union for effect. :D You may have noticed that I also, finally, renamed the Ottoman Empire to the CSR. But I haven't given the CSR a new flag yet.
Yet another reson we need revolutionary ideologies. If anyone actually wants to start a mod on this I would be happy to join it.
 

Tommy4ever

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((Overall, I very much like this AAR and don't mind you taking it in a world war direction even if I voice political disagreement to those actions. But if I was going to list a main complaint it would be that I fear that this AAR is in danger of developing Mary Sue syndrome. We all know that once you reach a certain level of power in Vicky you can pretty much do whatever you want and the AI can't stop you. But that doesn't make a good story. The game does a horrible job capturing things that restrict empires (minority separatism? What's a minority?) and does an even worse job if you use indirect control. I'm especially worried because if you didn't actually install communist dictatorships in France and Russia, then there is no way for there to be resistance to the new communist overlords. I think you should take this AAR any direction you like, but beware the Mary Sue effect.))
I'm not entirely sure what the Mary Sue effect is but I'll assume it is making something you like in your story overly successful. So I'll adress your concerns.

I have a long history of AARs and of the completed ones two of my countries were destroyed and one survived to the end as the world hegemon. So I have a history of not always making my country win. Of the two that collapsed (Spain and Habsburg Austria) I fealt that my descriptions behind their collapses were reasonably believable. Spain tried to hold on to autocracy and ultra-conservatism in a world where it was no longer possible to do so whilst the Habsburg Empire faced military defeat in a horrific conflict followed by a civil war.

As for this Great War, I think people saw the 10 million vs 3.5 million figure and fealt that I was certain to lose. Take away the British and its 3.5 million vs 2 million with the 3.5 million being considerably better trained and equiped. When you look at it without Britain it would have been laughable if I had lost that war. All Britain did was ravage Africa.

AI Britain and AI China are still vastly more powerful than me. At this point India and China are untouchable and I have no means of attacking the British Home Isles. So the AI still has a major advantage on me in these respects.

I'm not going to argue with the seperatism point. In 1.1 multi-ethnic Empires always collapsed in 1.2 they are incredibly stable. I think V1 was better at managing different ethnic groups (they were essentially useless to you as you couldn't promote them and them were very militant).

As I've said before the editing I've done to the prol dictatorship in game means that if I'm not controlling the state, quite simply, it won't remain a prol dicatorship. However Russia is still an in game autocracy so will face a lot of unrest (from communists amusingly enough) whilst France has faced regular largescale communist revolts since early in the game and I doubt this is going to stop anytime soon. So your fears here are misplaced.

Many people here seem to want to see the Comintern and VSVR collapse. But my question is why would it? The country is wealthy, it is very equal compared to other states, it is militarily very powerful, it is very free (the Anarchist made sure of that through decades of lobbying), no state can realistically crush it even if I cannot crush Britain, China or the US. If you want to see elements of the Comintern fall away then again this is unlikely as the VSVR has frequently in the past used its military might to prop up other regimes. There is little difference between my interventions in Spain, Denmark, Sweden and the CSR and the Soviet Union's in Hungary and Czechoslovakia. I'm suprised no one made a bigger deal of them.

Throughout I've tried hard to make figures I like flawed, to an extent. Marx supported Blanqui, Engels was left behind by the times and abandoned the Marxists, Rosa Luxemburg was a bit dogmatic and I killed her off anyway, Liebknecht worked was implicit in the expulsion of the TGs and supported Trotsky through thick and thin. So I've tried hard to avoid making these people overly good.

So I'm not sure what else I can do to combat this Mary Sue effect. If all you really want is for the VSVR to fail than I cannot provide that because in game I am trying to win. If you want the VSVR to be flawed then it already is so rejoice!
 

keynes2.0

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((I wouldn't argue for the VSVR to collapse under it's own weight. It has faced it's inner deamons and won. But the client states of the VSVR are the question. IRL the soviets were devoting a larger and larger share of the national product to maintaining the military and foreign efforts. Besides Yugoslavia, China and Cuba, many of the client states weren't very good at standing on their own. And in each of those three, the revolution came from within rather then being supported by the USSR. The VSVR has just committed itself to policing huge portions of the world. Spain, France, Italy, Austria, even Russia somewhat all have governments that exist because of VSVR intervention. Victoria doesn't illustrate any of the costs of maintaining such an empire but historically it was a very large factor behind the collapse of the Soviets and a huge drain on the finances of the colonial powers. So the question I pose is: will the trunk suffer to support the branches or will the branches suffer to preserve the trunk?

Rebellion crushing isn't an easy matter. Remember, lowly Afganistan and Vietnam were capable of laying superpowers low. The UK was harmed much less by Indian independence because they gave up peacefully and allowed India to chose policies that the Brits certainly wouldn't have approved of. So where does the VSVR draw the line? How far will the VSVR allow the client states to drift away from the VSVR preferred policies? How much defiance will they show? Or will some of them even forge a third way like India did?

I think that the danger of the Mary Sue effect is if you imagine that the societies of the Client states are able to transform completely just because the VSVR says so. That would be absurd. Not even the Soviet Union was completely unified behind communism and not even the US or UK were completely unified behind capitalism. Just because you have repainted the map doesn't mean you've changed anything.))
 

SwiftRosenthal

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I was actually working on just that. Among other things, it tag-changes the first communist GP into the USSR, has three separate proletarian governments (utopian, dystopian, and transitionary), makes left-anarchism playable, and turns the anachronistic "anarcho-liberalism" into actual Jacobinism. But I didn't know how to keep rebels or POPs ideological leanings properly balanced, or a few other things, and then got heavily sidetracked by Anno 1404 Venice... I still have the outline in a text file, but the full writeup was lost shortly after I finished writing it. (server downtime, IIRC)
 

Tommy4ever

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Communard's Speech and the Gerneral Assembly of the Comintern

As Leon Trotsky's first term as Chairman of the VSVR came to an end a new idea was sweeping through the People's Party, and indeed the Comintern as a whole. Now that the Comintern had been massively expanded and was no longer so relient economically and militarily upon the VSVR many fealt that it was time to democratise the Comintern.

These trends emerged into a movement calling for a Gerneral Assembly of the Comintern. Essentially this would be a Parliament elected by the people of every member of the First International. Each Republic would be gaurtuneed at least one seat whilst larger states would gain more seats according to their population.

On the final day before the closing of the Constituent Assembly one low level member, Communard, delivered a speech to the Assembly attempting rouse the Party behind the idea:

Friends! Comrades! Members of the Assembly! We stand at the precipice of a new world. A world in which oppression is not tolerated, a world in which the workers of the world live in a prosperous equality, and a world in which nations do not set man against man. Whatever one thinks of Comrade Trotsky's war, it is an undeniable fact that the Comintern is no longer a mere organisation of small, disparate socialist states seeking the protection of the VSVR. Rather, it encompasses a contiguous territory stretching from Brest to Vladivostok, from Galicia to the Indus. It is therefore a necessity that this monumental change is met with a suitable reaction. It is time that we recognised the inherent internationalism of Socialism.

For, despite what Drexler's mob would have us believe, socialism and nationalism are contradictory. Socialism is the unity, nationalism is division. Socialism is peace, nationalism is war. Socialism is progression, nationalism is reaction. Socialism is more than just Marxist economics. Socialism is the universal brotherhood of mankind. I ask you, comrades, what sense is there in dividing the working class? The Internationale unites the human race!

It is for this reason that I stand before you today. I do not seek the immediate dissolution of the member nations of the Comintern. Although desirable, this is simply not practical. Whatever your views on the coexistence of multiple socialist states, it is an undeniable fact that a more streamlined, co-operative, co-ordinated Comintern is not just ideologically desirable but the height of practicality. The world is divided into two camps: our opponents are ideologically fractured and divergent in their interests, let us seek to use this to our advantage and not succumb to the same fate ourselves in the coming conflicts!

How is this to be achieved, you may ask? What better way to unite and co-ordinate the nations than to give them a unified political structure? We must create a General Assembly of the Comintern. Its precise operations and powers may be scrutinised and perfected in the coming debate, but I believe that this Assembly must be elected by the peoples of the entire Comintern, and that the post of General Secretary be created and elected from this Assembly. What we must create today, Comrades, is the future Parliament of Man. I will end with a quotation from the late Comrade Marx:

“Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.

Workers of All Countries, Unite!


The idea of the Gerneral Assembly of the Comintern was accepted by the Marxist-Leninists, the Luxemburgists and the Democratic Anarchists. The National Communists were opposed to it on the grounds that it infringed upon the national soveriegnty of the Republics of the Comintern whilst the Anarcho-Kadonists denounced the idea as one supporting another layer of state.
 

Lenin Cat

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Wait, the term is over? WERES THE ELECTIONS!
 

Lenin Cat

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In what AAR post does he say that?
 

keynes2.0

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The sarcasm detector and the obliviousness detector are both off the chart!
 
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