Never! If the Marxist-Leninists are the personification of the Tyranny through Authority, then the Anarchists spout Tyranny through Chaos! A vote for either is unconscionable to a Democrat.
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Tyranny through chaos?
That is what we least desire, make it freedom and equality through liberation and reforms.
Decentralization for more freedoms, weaker state and more power to the local people.
There will be no chaos, all are equal. Chaos is a bourgeoisie sickness. Harmony creates serene order.
Vote for Anarchists, vote for a better freer future!
Stop the Trotskyist madness! Revolution through peace and prosperity!
Change must not be violent!
Whoa, some pretty intense debates here since I posted the first vote of the elections and then went away to a ski lodge in the even snowier parts of Sweden... I'm very glad that the Marxists-Leninists are doing so well, it'll be interesting to see how well the VSVR fares in a potential BB war. Should be possible to win, and fun!
I would like to weigh in on the debate of potential historical characters, by pointing out that Einstein was active in political matters, and definately a socialist. Considering that Kropotkin was a zoologist who put forward some important theories in the field of evolution besides being a revolutionary, I see no reason that such a brilliant man as Einstein wouldn't be involved in politics in the VSVR, considering his OTL political opinions, and considering that he was born in Germany. I provide you with an excellent quote by Einstein in the first number of the prominent American socialist publication Monthly Review, and some further reading
Einstein's article in the first issue of Monthly Review
And, for reference, Wikipedia on Einstein's political views here. See also the political views section of the main article on Einstein.
All in all, he would be a cool character to bring into the story, being German, famous, a socialist, and absolutely brilliant. He's in favour of a socialist planned economy and opposed to beuraucracy, so maybe make him a Luxemburgist. If he doesn't want to go for Chairman, make him People's Commisar for Science and Education!
I would like to weigh in on the debate of potential historical characters, by pointing out that Einstein was active in political matters, and definately a socialist. Considering that Kropotkin was a zoologist who put forward some important theories in the field of evolution besides being a revolutionary, I see no reason that such a brilliant man as Einstein wouldn't be involved in politics in the VSVR, considering his OTL political opinions, and considering that he was born in Germany. I provide you with an excellent quote by Einstein in the first number of the prominent American socialist publication Monthly Review, and some further reading
Albert Einstein said:
Einstein's article in the first issue of Monthly Review
And, for reference, Wikipedia on Einstein's political views here. See also the political views section of the main article on Einstein.
All in all, he would be a cool character to bring into the story, being German, famous, a socialist, and absolutely brilliant. He's in favour of a socialist planned economy and opposed to beuraucracy, so maybe make him a Luxemburgist. If he doesn't want to go for Chairman, make him People's Commisar for Science and Education!
To counter the latest surge of Anarchist voting I change my vote!
From Abstain to Marxist-Leninist.
U mad?
From Abstain to Marxist-Leninist.
U mad?
Einstein is a scientist, just like Trotsky was a brutal organizer of the Red Army and a ruthless creature.
They should not be deciding our policies.
There are lot of 20th century people with socialist/communist views. I think we should just keep it with real politicians.
We need scientist, they serve us better in their facilities.
And why do we even need American politicians?
We have enough problems with our own and with our Russian politicians.
@ Ralph: I never knew Einstein was so actively socialist. I guess its just one of those things you don't get told when you learn about people at school (for example when I studied the Easter Rising in school they somehow failed to mention that he was a socialist never mind a revolutionary Marxist ). I guess I could bring him in. At Necazian's request I worked out that the Grandpappy Minorities Secretary (aside form being the the Central Committee longer than anyone else - 1863-present) must be at the very least in his 60s and probably in his 70s. So there is likely to be a place in the Luxemburgists CC position open in the near future. Still trying to think of an epic way to send off everyone's favourite politica animal ....
Aside from this, here's a poll for y'all:
Total Votes: 68 - 2 off the record. C'mon! Vote for tommorrow!
Marxist-Leninists: 27 (fighting extreme stagnation)
Anarchists: 22 (benefiting for an explosion of support)
Luxemburgists 8 (suffering from a fixation on the Anarchists)
True Germans 5 (suffering from the hatred of them by everyone but them)
Revolutionaries: 3 (weaping after their downfall)
Democrats: 3 (just keep a rollin' on)
Trotsky now has just 39.7% of the vote. Things are starting to get worrying for the Marxist-Leninists. Goldman on the other hand 32.4% of the vote in an impressive turnaround. Just 5 votes seperate Anarchist from Marxist-Leninist.
Strange that of the 3 factions with truly mass support (the Luxemburgists to a slightly lesser extent to the M-Ls and Revs) only the Marxist-Leninists are able to put up a meaningful challenge. Meanwhile, despite being one of the lesser factions, the Anarchists are again big players in the race for the Chairmanship.
Polls close tommorrow at midday.
). I guess I could bring him in. At Necazian's request I worked out that the Grandpappy Minorities Secretary (aside form being the the Central Committee longer than anyone else - 1863-present) must be at the very least in his 60s and probably in his 70s. So there is likely to be a place in the Luxemburgists CC position open in the near future. Still trying to think of an epic way to send off everyone's favourite politica animal ....Aside from this, here's a poll for y'all:
Total Votes: 68 - 2 off the record. C'mon! Vote for tommorrow!
Marxist-Leninists: 27 (fighting extreme stagnation)
Anarchists: 22 (benefiting for an explosion of support)
Luxemburgists 8 (suffering from a fixation on the Anarchists)
True Germans 5 (suffering from the hatred of them by everyone but them)
Revolutionaries: 3 (weaping after their downfall)
Democrats: 3 (just keep a rollin' on)
Trotsky now has just 39.7% of the vote. Things are starting to get worrying for the Marxist-Leninists. Goldman on the other hand 32.4% of the vote in an impressive turnaround. Just 5 votes seperate Anarchist from Marxist-Leninist.
Strange that of the 3 factions with truly mass support (the Luxemburgists to a slightly lesser extent to the M-Ls and Revs) only the Marxist-Leninists are able to put up a meaningful challenge. Meanwhile, despite being one of the lesser factions, the Anarchists are again big players in the race for the Chairmanship.
Polls close tommorrow at midday.
Einstein is a scientist, just like Trotsky was a brutal organizer of the Red Army and a ruthless creature.
They should not be deciding our policies.
There are lot of 20th century people with socialist/communist views. I think we should just keep it with real politicians.
We need scientist, they serve us better in their facilities.
And why do we even need American politicians?
We have enough problems with our own and with our Russian politicians.
I thought an infamous anti-immigrant campaigner like you would support bring a GERMAN (what's that?) into the ranks. Einstein was very much a German, not an American.
Ein Stein?
But he had more political influence in American than in Germany due to some unknown reasons, I'd say.
And he is not anarchist enough. Just that he wrote in favour of socialism should not be reason to get into the central committee, I would think.
And for what party ought he to stand for?
Hmm, seems like my little campaigning has had some results!
Or everyone just came to see the light by themselves.
Even if we Anarchists cannot win this race, the amount of votes we have should prevent Trotsky from gaining too much power!
Maybe we can even prevent him from becoming Chairman!
Stop Trotsky, stop that bloodthirsty beast!
Fight for your rights, fight against useless bloodshed!
Fight for the rights of a freer society, fight against this damned statism!
Marxists have failed to make everyone equal with their oppressive policies!
Vote for Anarchists! Save us from warfare and violence!
RETTEN SIE DIE REPUBLIK!
Exactly, without state fascism and anti-semitism, he wouldn't have emigrated to the USA. I say, let him win one of the first Nobel Prizes (instituted 1901), and let him come to prominence through it.
Enewald, I really wonder if you're even reading Tommy's posts. This is the second election where the party only votes for the chairman. The assemblee is voted by the people. So even if one party gets every single vote from the party they still wouldn't have all positions in the assemblee.
@ Enewald: Remember that the votes here only decide the Chairman. The Assembly is voted for by the people - that is where things are liable to get messy.
If I would suggest somebody who would enter the Party : RL founder of Czechoslovakia, politician and philosopher - Thomas Masaryk. He wasn´t RL socialist but he should pass into Revs as he came from catholic, paesant region. I dont know how famous he is outside the Czech republic but hope he somehow is.
@ Enewald: Remember that the votes here only decide the Chairman. The Assembly is voted for by the people - that is where things are liable to get messy.
Well, can Trotsky become Chairman with less than 40% of votes?
Don't you need a coalition with 50% backing to get that position?
Whatever, I will fight Trotsky here, on the streets, in the assembly, wherever I can!
Stop this Marxist madness! Try to think with your brains for a while, stop voting for that madman!
VOTE FOR ANARCHISTS!
Well, can Trotsky become Chairman with less than 40% of votes?
Don't you need a coalition with 50% backing to get that position?
Whatever, I will fight Trotsky here, on the streets, in the assembly, wherever I can!
Stop this Marxist madness! Try to think with your brains for a while, stop voting for that madman!
VOTE FOR ANARCHISTS!
Seats are not appointed by the Party Vote.
According to some stats Zim posted me on my profile page (click on my forum name to see the stats) the least votes a Chairman was ever elected on was Rosa Luxemburg who in 1895 won just 27.2% of votes (including 2nd pref). If Trotsky got 40% exactly he'd be right slap bang in the middle of the level of popularity with the Party Chairman are usually elected with. No Chairman's faction has ever got 50% of the Party vote. Marx came within less than a percent and Lenin within less than two percent.
People keep suggesting Masaryk to me. From what I've read on his wikipedia page he seems like a social democrat (am I wrong here?). Which would place him in the Democrat faction which ins't really large enough to accomodate more CC members. However things shall soon change on that front so I'll keep my eye on him. BTW, atleast 3 or 4 people have asked me to include him so I guess he must have some fame outside of the Czech Republic although I'll admit that I had never heard of him.
BTW a bit more info:
The M-Ls now have 28 votes to the Anarchist 22 with 69 (one off record) votes cast.
According to some more info Zim posted to me on my visitors page the Marxist-Leninists have actually registered more votes (excluding 2nd prefs in '85) than any other faction ever. The Anarchists have more votes than they ever have. But this all comes from increased readership over time and increases in the size of the electorate. Roughly speaking the electorate has increased by 20 persons from the start of the AAR.
I cast my vote for the Anarchists. This is the first time I have approved of their entire platform, perhaps excepting their peaceful foreign policy.
As much as I hate religion and its terrible, terrible influences on our people, to convert by force has proven to be a root of even more problems. The loosening of our religious restrictions and Council Communism are the answers to our internal problems, while the Marxist-Leninist plans of censorship and party purging shall only increase them. Once our internal strife has been resolved, we can once again look outwards and help our oppressed comrades abroad!
As much as I hate religion and its terrible, terrible influences on our people, to convert by force has proven to be a root of even more problems. The loosening of our religious restrictions and Council Communism are the answers to our internal problems, while the Marxist-Leninist plans of censorship and party purging shall only increase them. Once our internal strife has been resolved, we can once again look outwards and help our oppressed comrades abroad!
Come on, throw the Democrats a bone with Einstein here. The man was a dedicated anti-militarist (although not pacifist) and was perfectly fine with religious beliefs. Why should he be joining a party that starts war and suppresses religion instead of a party that implements his economic parties, allows freedom of religion and doesn't try to kill anyone?
If mixed economy and liberal social democrats aren't allowed in the party and non revolutionary socialists are all going to be given to other factions, why exactly is there a Democratic party in the first place. There should be one party that represents mainstream Western European and American socialist thought, controlling the economy, opposing war and freeing the populace.
These guys: http://www.socialistinternational.org/viewArticle.cfm?ArticleID=24
...would not belong in any of the parties except the Democrats. Are they not socialist enough for the VSVR?
If mixed economy and liberal social democrats aren't allowed in the party and non revolutionary socialists are all going to be given to other factions, why exactly is there a Democratic party in the first place. There should be one party that represents mainstream Western European and American socialist thought, controlling the economy, opposing war and freeing the populace.
These guys: http://www.socialistinternational.org/viewArticle.cfm?ArticleID=24
...would not belong in any of the parties except the Democrats. Are they not socialist enough for the VSVR?
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