LET ME JOIN MY SONS WAR !!!!

[vandevere]

I absolutely wish we could join vassal wars. At the very least, you should be able to join the defender as a liege is a guarantor of territorial integrity. Especially in cases where a member of your dynasty gave land to another dynasty, any "legal" claim stating otherwise would be construed as defiance of your (dynasty's) rule.

"Oh, you have a fancy little piece of paper saying that's your land, do you? You realize my grandfather gave that land to them, right? So are you calling my grandfather a liar? Do you dispute that he was, in fact, the sovereign of this realm at that time...which by extension would suggest I am not the sovereign, now? Perhaps I should cut your tongue out for such vile, seditious slander of my family?"

That's the thing that drives me crazy. If I'm the liege, then I meade a compact to protect my vassals. That compact is the very foundation of Feudalism. The liege exacts taxes/levies/whatever, in return for protection; but, while the game allows me to collect revenues and raise levies from my vassals, it won't let me protect them?

Utterly ridiculous in a game that's supposed to model feudalism...

 

[Thorkel the Tall]

I agree that you should be able to help your son/heir if he is in a rebellion. The historical thing would be to be able to join any vassals war if you wished to do so.

However, I do see a point in limiting the option to some cases (close family members and people with marriage ties): this thread is coming from the top liege point of wiev, but the game should also be playable from the counts point of view. Imagine you start as a German count with ambitions to go up, and every-time you try to get that first Duchy, the Holy Roman emperor intervenes? That would be a frustrating game.

 

[TCWolffe]

I agree that you should be able to help your son/heir if he is in a rebellion. The historical thing would be to be able to join any vassals war if you wished to do so.

However, I do see a point in limiting the option to some cases (close family members and people with marriage ties): this thread is coming from the top liege point of wiev, but the game should also be playable from the counts point of view. Imagine you start as a German count with ambitions to go up, and every-time you try to get that first Duchy, the Holy Roman emperor intervenes? That would be a frustrating game.

That's a fair point to consider. Diplomacy could be involved in AI decision weighting, however. Spoil the relations between your liege and the top liege, improve your relations with the top liege, get a NAP with the top liege through marriage, etc.

There's also potential for involving the favors system. You could potentially cash in a favor or owe a favor in return for the top liege staying neutral.

 

[CaptainPolyp]

I agree that you should be able to help your son/heir if he is in a rebellion. The historical thing would be to be able to join any vassals war if you wished to do so.

However, I do see a point in limiting the option to some cases (close family members and people with marriage ties): this thread is coming from the top liege point of wiev, but the game should also be playable from the counts point of view. Imagine you start as a German count with ambitions to go up, and every-time you try to get that first Duchy, the Holy Roman emperor intervenes? That would be a frustrating game.

If there is an opinion penalty for a feudal liege taking party (penalty for all vassals since he opposes the rightful claim of a vassal), it should naturally limit the AI lieges to systematically go against the player. Of course, the AI's decision weighting should allow it to take opinion penalties in order to defend a vassal it likes, even if it reduces the realm stability. (I'm not sure this is easy to balance this tho... the interactions with the factions could quickly become unbearable for the AI)

That's a fair point to consider. Diplomacy could be involved in AI decision weighting, however. Spoil the relations between your liege and the top liege, improve your relations with the top liege, get a NAP with the top liege through marriage, etc.
There's also potential for involving the favors system. You could potentially cash in a favor or owe a favor in return for the top liege staying neutral.

An empowered council can also have a big influence in this and it could be possible to call in a favor on one of the liege's councillor to approve or disapprove the intervention (even request it?). It would also make the fact of being in the liege's council more significant for the player as he can influence the intervention of his liege in internal wars.

 

[Thorkel the Tall]

I agree that it should be done to some extend. Especially in clear situation if its a son or heir (younger brother etc). The point is there should be some heavy restrictions (like opinion hits, prestige loss, etc). It might be hard to balance a system that gives us as player as much freedom we want as top liege, without hurting the situation from the bottom up (or make it broken so the player have choices the AI dont).

 

[Arsonik]

Imagine you start as a German count with ambitions to go up, and every-time you try to get that first Duchy, the Holy Roman emperor intervenes? That would be a frustrating game.

I call that risk versus reward. There is always marriage if you want to move up the legitimate way. Wanna intrigue and plot and fabricate claims and steal other Nobleman's legitimate titles? You should expect to be smacked down at the first discovery of your treachery

 

[DorlasAnther]

I don´t think ruler should be able to help vassals, but he should definitely be able to help his wife or family. When family member is ruler of independent state and someone with CB attacks him, do I just stand there, because he is claimant for his land? No, I can help him. But for some reason, I can´t help my son, who is my vassal.

 

[DukeDayve]

Don't land your heirs, ever. The AI will ruin them one way or another.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

I call that risk versus reward. There is always marriage if you want to move up the legitimate way. Wanna intrigue and plot and fabricate claims and steal other Nobleman's legitimate titles? You should expect to be smacked down at the first discovery of your treachery

You do realize most AI vassal wars on each other are usually more than just single county fabrication claims, right? They're usually full blown inheritance fights.

 

[ragnarok246]

This bollocks shouldn't happen with viceroyalties period.

 

[RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen]

AGREED!
It's not like it never happened in history that kings and emperors join the wars of their vassals, intervene or help family members...

 

[Arsonik]

You do realize most AI vassal wars on each other are usually more than just single county fabrication claims, right? They're usually full blown inheritance fights.

We are talking about Player declared wars, not AI. The post I commented was specifically with regards to starting as a count and trying to work your way up.

 

[ninoallen]

would really like to have one of the Devs comment

 

[burninmizzou]

I don't want more death sounds I want to join more wars DLC

 

[Mike Louis]

No self respecting ruler in RL will stand by while their son / daughter, or other heir is involved in a war over their lands against some uppity vassal. The vassal in question will be absolutely hammered by the King / Emperor since he or she is essentially committing treason by rising up against his or her future lord / lady and sovereign. I hope the devs implement the ability to intervene in a war on behalf of the player ruler's child / heir in the upcoming patch.

 

[Jak9090]

Enforce Realm Peace like anyone reasonable would do, really.

Or get depression and off yourself, allowing your son to to inherit the empire and use that might for the greater good.

Or instead spend the first century or two spawning kids and revolts, revoking all the land for just your dynasty members. Then even if your son loses the title at least it's to another kinsman.

for someone reason once u abolish council u cant seem to make internal peace? that's broken and opposite of what it shld do imo

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

for someone reason once u abolish council u cant seem to make internal peace? that's broken and opposite of what it shld do imo

As someone else has said. The liege himself cannot stop vassals from fighting each other. It is offensive to deny a vassal their claim in preference to another.

If you absolutely have to you can enforce a truce, but only if your other powerful vassals (aka your council) approves. If you give your council no power it's basically just you and some unimportant people (courtiers) disapproving, and again, liege disapproving a rightful claim is just wrong.

 

[jere8184]

agot mod has a good system to prevent vassal wars its almost superior in every way to the one paradox implemented

 

[Jak9090]

As someone else has said. The liege himself cannot stop vassals from fighting each other. It is offensive to deny a vassal their claim in preference to another.

If you absolutely have to you can enforce a truce, but only if your other powerful vassals (aka your council) approves. If you give your council no power it's basically just you and some unimportant people (courtiers) disapproving, and again, liege disapproving a rightful claim is just wrong.

point still stands, if Crown Prince Richard duke of Blah blah getting attacked by some grumpy old man, his father King Blahblahblah isn't going to be like "good luck son, may the spoils goto the victor." no, hes gona be like "wtf is this lunatic doing attacking the crown prince?! rally the men."

 

[Admiral Fischer]

As someone else has said. The liege himself cannot stop vassals from fighting each other. It is offensive to deny a vassal their claim in preference to another.

If you absolutely have to you can enforce a truce, but only if your other powerful vassals (aka your council) approves. If you give your council no power it's basically just you and some unimportant people (courtiers) disapproving, and again, liege disapproving a rightful claim is just wrong.

See the case of Hugues Capet, progenitor of the Capets, and his son Robert II of France.

Hugues Capet was elected and crowned in 987. To secure the succession, he crowned his son Robert as co-King in the very same year. When Hugues Capet died, Robert II did the same, and crowned his son Hugues. When Hugues died, another son Henri was crowned as co-King. And so on.

The Emperors of the Byzantine Empire and the Kings of Germany had similar ideas. Infamous Friedrich Barbarossa and his son Heinrich is one example - Heinrich was crowned in 1169 and for twenty two years he was the King of Germany, before he succeeded Friedrich Barbarossa.

Now, say if one vassal is attacking such a crowned heir, then who's actually not only committing offense to the 'supposed' feudal pact, but also treason?

EDIT:Wikipedia links added.