Let me get this straight, the only new Focus trees will be the Baltic states?

[Arilou]

No it takes a lot longer than that for what we aim for these days. With a month you get something like the basegame Poland level.

Then the failure was on a management/decisionmaking level that put in the baltic trees ahead of getting the finnish one done. I am usually pretty chill about Paradox decisionmaking process, but this is just a huge failure. Finland getting a focus tree should have been a higher priority than revamping the polish one, and certainly than doing the baltic ones. It just shows a massive misallocation of resources.

 

[Áurum]

Please be respectful. I too was a bit shocked to not see Finland be added, but that doesn’t give me the right to be rude. Podcat himself took the time to write a forum post specifically asking for some more respect to the devs - after all, they are people too.

It’s much better, IMO, to have a good, fleshed out tree that takes a bit longer to design, then to have a half-assed focus tree YOU KNOW will have to be redone because YOU KNOW it isn’t up to the current standards just for the sake of inclusion.

Poland’s original focus tree was essentially the generic tree with some different focus names. That wouldn’t come even close to making Finland justice, while many of the Finland-related events, such as the Winter/Continuation wars, do not require a Finnish tree to work (especially since the Soviets were the ones attacking)

Sorry, but, at this point, I feel they are laughing at us. They are seriously going to release an Eastern Front DLC without Finland. I would be ashamed if I did that. Who is taking decisions in Paradox? Who thought this was a good idea? I bet you can't find any HoI player who thinks this is actually a good idea.

I don't think I was rude, but I was harsh, because it seems that polite words will simply be ignored. They only changed the new Poland tree after a significantly harsh reaction by the community, and after having the honour of having a dev diary with more negative than positive votes. If devs need more time to add Finland to the DLC, then take it. The release date hasn't been even announced yet, they can delay as much as they want.

 

[Searry]

Does this all mean no Italy rework?

 

[pheonicia]

Does this all mean no Italy rework?

No italy has been confirmed for months now. Sorry.

 

[Eh up me duck]

I think people are underestimating how much effort it takes to create a good focus tree. I've played all the big/popular mods and none of them managed to make what I would consider to be good focus trees.

I really don't understand what people expect from a Finnish focus tree. Buffs to help defend against Soviets and an alt history where they attack Scandinavia and form a Nordic union? Woohoo.

 

[Harin]

They only changed the new Poland tree after a significantly harsh reaction by the community, and after having the honour of having a dev diary with more negative than positive votes.

Maybe you are right, but I do not think the harsh reaction by the community is what got the developers to make changes to Poland. Instead, I think it was for two other primary reasons. One, there were many negative votes, which was unusual. That does get attention and I suspect was louder than the harshest of the posts. Since when does a DD get such responses? Second, there were many people communication very well the need for changes. They not only complained, they made excellent points, backed up with specific information. I doubt a loud and harsh group of people making up 0.01% of the players made the developers want to do anything, but tune out. Thankfully, there were enough informed and skilled communicators who were able to raise the message above the noise level.

I am not going to kiss the developers arse, and I do not expect anyone else to either, but when someone treats me like I am not a real human being their ability to influence me ends. Immediately. I am going out on a limb here, but I am guessing the same is true with most people and very likely the developers.

*EDIT: I just realized that it is possible to assume I am saying Aurum was harsh. I am not. I am replying that I do not think the harsh responses to the Polish DD was what drove the changes, at least not as much as all the negative votes and all the well written complaints that were backed up with facts.

 

[safe-keeper]

I think people are underestimating how much effort it takes to create a good focus tree. I've played all the big/popular mods and none of them managed to make what I would consider to be good focus trees.

I really don't understand what people expect from a Finnish focus tree. Buffs to help defend against Soviets and an alt history where they attack Scandinavia and form a Nordic union? Woohoo.

Not just a focus tree, but also new game mechanics to go with it. Had it not been for that, I'm sure Finland would've been prioritized over Poland.

 

[yezhanquan]

No italy has been confirmed for months now. Sorry.

In my view, all major Allies/Axis powers should have received reworks before the minor powers. It's now 2021, and there are still two major powers without reworks: the USSR and Italy. I'll say "You do you," but no USSR rework is a big reason why I haven't tried HOI IV. (I'm an ethnic Chinese and excited about Waking the Tiger, but yeah.

 

[bitmode]

Please be respectful.

How was any of that disrespectful?

 

[Áurum]

Maybe you are right, but I do not think the harsh reaction by the community is what got the developers to make changes to Poland. Instead, I think it was for two other primary reasons. One, there were many negative votes, which was unusual. That does get attention and I suspect was louder than the harshest of the posts. Since when does a DD get such responses? Second, there were many people communication very well the need for changes. They not only complained, they made excellent points, backed up with specific information. I doubt a loud and harsh group of people making up 0.01% of the players made the developers want to do anything, but tune out. Thankfully, there were enough informed and skilled communicators who were able to raise the message above the noise level.

I am not going to kiss the developers arse, and I do not expect anyone else to either, but when someone treats me like I am not a real human being their ability to influence me ends. Immediately. I am going out on a limb here, but I am guessing the same is true with most people and very likely the developers.

*EDIT: I just realized that it is possible to assume I am saying Aurum was harsh. I am not. I am replying that I do not think the harsh responses to the Polish DD was what drove the changes, at least not as much as all the negative votes and all the well written complaints that were backed up with facts.

The main problem I see mid and long term is that Paradox is showing us that they only rectify mistakes when there is a very significant negative reaction from the community.

There were very well informed and respectful posts by people explaining with excellent points, but aren't there many posts like those about many, many flaws of the game that are always ignored by developers? How many good posts have been made explaining why Man the Guns man mechanics are broken, why La Resistance mechanics are broken, why Battle for the Bosporus is broken? All have been ignored.

Paradox is teaching the community that the only way to achieve something is by overreacting and many people will be rude because they have learned that's the only way they will be heard.

If @podcat felt I was rude, then I clarify that it wasn't my intention.

 

[Duke_Dave]

Here is the thing, I like to play historical 1-2 times, if it's important for a complicated achievement maybe 3 times. But that's it.
Alt-history can be memes. And the polish monarchy path is undoubtedly mostly so, but that gives me more ways to play the game. I usually try every path at least once which now will result in me playing Poland probably like at least 10 times.

The historical playthrough players are the minority I think and PDX has to earn money so I understand their logic.

Also we get a new polish tree, a new Soviet tree (probably as big as the the Spanish one) and the baltic trees which in content is about 4-5 focus trees.
Now I would love a Finnland focus tree, but the best National focuses in my opinion came with Battle of the Bosporus which featured just three. I prefer focus trees of that quality with many generals, ministers events etc. Over stuff like south Africa which has one general and feels, a bit boring (abolishing apartheid is one 70 day focus, with no wider implicationsor problems attached, compare that with dealing or allying with the IMRO or the Islamists/Kemalists).

 

[Cpt.Cross]

What Mechanics does the Winter war really need that makes it so difficult? You could just slap on the terrain penalties from SCW or just hit Soviets with a considerable nerf for the duration.

 

[him_15]

This is unbelievable.

 

[him_15]

To be honest, I would rather wait a bit longer or even pay a bit more for Finland to be included in this DLC. An Eastern front DLC without Finland is a joke.

 

[Duke_Dave]

the selling point of the ext DLC is the Siviet tree, not the Polish not the baltic trees. Money makes the world go around a country pack with the baltic states, Blegium and Nepal won't sell half as well as this DLC will. We will get a Finnish focus tree probably next. Also they said Middle East is coming, probably 2023 with current speed but I am fine with that, as long as it comes.
I just hope they find a financially viable way to rework the old DLCs especially TfV and DoD need a rework.

 

[fr-rein]

The Ukrainian case was very close to becoming a reality, so much so that the Soviets took it for the fact that the Germans would convert a state similar to Croatia to the Ukrainians to win a large part of the Ukrainian nationalist population.

HoI4 prefers to insert meme Cossack-Kings, offmap nuclear reactors (now reverted but still) and Eastern Poland meme uprising building up their Jesusland. Because apparently Ukraine is a bigger meme according to this thread. Enjoy history revisionism.

 

[Federkiel]

HoI4 prefers to insert meme Cossack-Kings, offmap nuclear reactors (now reverted but still) and Eastern Poland meme uprising building up their Jesusland. Because apparently Ukraine is a bigger meme according to this thread. Enjoy history revisionism.

I don't think so. If Ukraine were a meme - it would be included with at least a six-branched focus tree for sure.

Since it's not, the best it can hope for is becoming a Polish colony since a millennium ago, in a different universe, it's supposed to be one. Core territory, of course.

/s

 

[fr-rein]

Since it's not, the best it can hope for is becoming a Polish colony since a millennium ago, in a different universe, it's supposed to be one. Core territory, of course.

/s

Why /s if it Polish Mission tree essentially?

 

[Federkiel]

Why /s if it Polish Mission tree essentially?

They don't get all of it. Only large swathes for free. I guess that either USSR cannot do anything about it or at least USSR AI is programmed to always agree the territory being grabbed away for no reason.

 

[ZeDoctor1918]

I don't think so. If Ukraine were a meme - it would be included with at least a six-branched focus tree for sure.

As much as this was said in jest, its sad how true this statement is.