Less fun playing small nations ?

[Razor]

Thank You Paradox for a very good job on HOI2, but maybe you made it just a little less fun to play as a small nation.

I tried a game as Sweden the other day and noticed that it was pretty easy to develop and build a quite large but not so sofisticated infantry army. I was also able to build an impressive airfleet of improved close support aircrafts.

More expensive units like basic fighters, basic tactical bombers and basic tanks however was hardly possible at all. Building just one such unit at a time consumed more than I could spare for military production even though I did a lot of Industrial research (with my single research slot) to build up my IC in the beginning of the 1936 scenario. With my knowledge of Sweden at that time it felt a bit ahistorical.

Well, by 1942 when Germany started to bite dust on the east front. I joined the allies and managed to kick Germany out of Norway so it was not to bad.

Again, thank you Paradox for another god game!

 

[unmerged(16695)]

what exactly is your point? the game is too realistic?

 

[Aragos]

Makes sense to me. There is a good reason that the non-Great Powers,well, weren't 'Great.' Not many tanks built in Latin America, and no CV's in Liberia...

 

[Grosshaus]

Being able to kick Germans out of Norway was just about the maximum Sweden could have hoped to do in the war in reality.

 

[unmerged(14393)]

Being able to kick Germans out of Norway was just about the maximum Sweden could have hoped to do in the war in reality.

Bah!

 

[unmerged(12556)]

I think it's better this way for small nations. It's just a matter of setting your goals to a more realistic level. Liberia will not be conquering the world in this game.


If you want an ahistorical result based on let's say the Grand empire of Urugray then just make the mods. Give yourself technology, manpower, resources, whatever.

One of the great things Paradox has done is allow the game to be modded into the game (within some limits) the player wants.

 

[unmerged(37509)]

I'm getting confused....

Wasn't this what all of us were clammering about when HOI 1 was "it"?? Didn't we want a more "realistic" Hearts of Iron to play (within reason)?

As much fun it would be to make Sweden your "superpower", and have a high tech tree with Airforce, realistically it was impossible. I think that's one thing that people are missing with this new release, is that you simply cannot conquer the world with some countries. IMHO, it actually looks more fun to play some of these "lesser" countries..Know your role in the grand scheme of things during WW II. Of COURSE you can make some changes, and try some crazy ideas that might possibly change the course of action. That's the endearing part about this game. That's why all of us like it so much.....the ability to think, and act "outside the box"...Just not too radically.


As a close friend of mine said in preparation for this game's release "You can't be Mexico, and expect America results..."

Just my opinion is all....Good thread, however...

 

[Rommel22]

It's funny...with HOI1 people complained how unreal it was, because Sweeden, Norway, Poland, Hungary all these small nations could be Super powers. But now, that it's fixed, people complain that that is somehow unrealistic.

'I can't Conquer Asia with Peru, what gives?!!?!?11'

yea ok.

 

[SecondReich]

Its more fun to play the game with the minor powers than the major powers.

 

[Razor]

Hey hey, calm down. Read my post again.

I did not write that I wanted sweden (or any other small nation) to be a superpower. I just think that some of them became a little bit to 'small' in HOI2.

 

[unmerged(6105)]

Hey hey, calm down. Read my post again.

I did not write that I wanted sweden (or any other small nation) to be a superpower. I just think that some of them became a little bit to 'small' in HOI2.

As Sweden, build some more industry the first year, that will give you a second research spot. If you need money for research, trade supplies for money with USA.

 

[unmerged(37509)]

Hey hey, calm down. Read my post again.

I did not write that I wanted sweden (or any other small nation) to be a superpower. I just think that some of them became a little bit to 'small' in HOI2.

Razor,

My post was not meant to be rude at all. If that's the way you took it, my apologies. What I was saying is that compared to HOI 1, YES some countries are a bit "smaller" than in HOI 2....But isn't that the way it should be? Frankly, their were some countries in HOI1 that were simply WAY too powerful for their own good. I just like the way that Paradox pulled back the strings a little...My personal opinion is that it makes you MUCH more concious of Diplomacy, and Production/Trades while playing a lesser power....

Now if I only could get this Production thing under control with Brazil........... :wacko:

 

[stuartdm]

I don't have the game yet, but when I do I have a weird urge to play Switzerland.

Is there any point? - I know they have decent research but DOWing is probably not very easy.

 

[unmerged(37509)]

Well......

I don't have the game yet, but when I do I have a weird urge to play Switzerland.

Is there any point? - I know they have decent research but DOWing is probably not very easy.

No, it's not. DOWing as Switzerland looks to be pretty tough, based on my limited use of the game to date. You're right, in the sense that they have a decent research team. Best to "ally" yourself with a big boy, and ride their coattails...

IMHO, If you're looking to start off with a small country to learn the ropes that is VERY close to the action, yet probably won't get attacked, then Switzerland is your choice!

That or Poland....I mean..err....wait...... :rofl:

 

[_Curieus_]

Fun minor: Try the Netherlands

With relatively little industrial buildup you can get an extra research slot.
They have some awesome tech teams (Shell is really marvelous..)
They have enough surplus to trade, and can manage to defend their country (at least at easy). (If they ally to the belgians and donate research).

It is necesary to start build industry AA and fortifications from day 1.
If germany overruns belgium, then you probably are toast, but if you can help belgium hold the line either east of the Maas (don't spend too much effort)
of west of the Maas then the french will able to keep the germans out.
Do keep 3 fire brigades of at least 2 armoured divisions in reserve.

In the current setup NL is one of the Major Minors..

 

[Neroon]

Well i don't have HOI2 yet, but IMHO a good way to make minor nations playable/stronger would be a "sequel" to the EU2toVIC tool a sorta VICtoHOI2 tool, so that you can use Victoria to make a country who is a minor in the historical 1936 setup a bit more major. I'd like to have a crack at WC in HOI2 with my Scandinavian Empire for example.

 

[McNaughton]

That is what the 1936 scenario is for. It gives you time to try and build up your nation to suit a percieved goal. Armoured formations were very difficult to create, and in HoI2 they are very expensive to create and require a lot of devotion. This makes minor nations rely on inexpensive units (regular infantry, mountain troops, semi-motorized cavalry) and suppliment them with brigades. Brigades are amazing in HoI2, with enough to satisfy all needs.

Also, the new economic and research system makes minors way more viable. You can be guaranteed to run your nation at 100% as trading for needed resources is much easier. No more having a minor nation cripplied because of a world market that 'doesn't work'. Research is great as well. Sure, minors won't have great tech teams, but, I can get more research as a minor in HoI2 than one in HoI1. Allying yourself with a major power as early as you can aids you significantly. Blueprints are awesome, especially for minor nations.

To me, Minor nations are more 'playable' in HoI2, but they aren't quite as 'powerful' in terms of absolute power. However, if you maximize your strength's, rely on your larger allies, you can play an important part. No more Bulgaria taking over the world, but, Bulgaria and Germany taking over the world is possible.

 

[ForzaA]

With relatively little industrial buildup you can get an extra research slot.
They have some awesome tech teams (Shell is really marvelous..)
They have enough surplus to trade, and can manage to defend their country (at least at easy). (If they ally to the belgians and donate research).

It is necesary to start build industry AA and fortifications from day 1.
If germany overruns belgium, then you probably are toast, but if you can help belgium hold the line either east of the Maas (don't spend too much effort)
of west of the Maas then the french will able to keep the germans out.
Do keep 3 fire brigades of at least 2 armoured divisions in reserve.

In the current setup NL is one of the Major Minors..

So true- an NL that prepares for war can play a pivotal role in the initial german (intended) Blitz.
Make use of natural defenses (Rhine-IJssel-IJsselmeer/afsluitdijk) combined with forts to create a WW1-like situation (and if you have the extra divs, some aid to the Belgians can do wonders aswell)
If you can manage (which should be possible with aforementioned tactic) to hold out a while, and keep some German divisions tied down, a completely different WW2 will develop (and with some luck, you can even get some nice German land )

 

[d0mbo]

Netherlands

Reading the thread topic i felt the need to react:

In my first game i started out with the netherlands. I'd say it may well be a bit OVERpowered. (not that i mind though :>)

I did take a complete different route. I upgraded all industry on java Island (east indies) and allied ASAP with tha Alies. Th eUK gives you a ****load of blueprints and with some very good industry and naval tech teams i had three flat-tops and three BC's cruising the pacific (note: on difficulty Normal )along with a lot of at least basic screening vessels in the summer-fall of 1940.

I let germany overrun my homecountry (yes i am a heretic) and continued the war from the colonies with still a decent IC base and with a large taskforce that destroyed most of the finnish, german and japanese fleet (the Naval AI needs some tweeking). WIth the new naval battle system it really is fun only to have sea based action (i transported all infantry divisions to Java; where they never saw action cuz i sunk the japanese fleet as mentioned above).

To get back to the topic: playing as a minor ( i played sweden with some lesser results- true and netherlands so far) is imho even more fun than it was!

These were my two euro-cents

 

[Razor]

I started a nother game as Sweden yesterday and paid more attention to the possibilities I had in diplomacy (trading, swaping politicians etc) and tech. That let me to an enhanced stradegy that I think will work pretty well at least for Sweden.

1. From the start: Trade steel for energy with Germany. They gave me a very good deal that filled my entire energy need with a large extra. Try also to build up a supply of rare materials traded for steel with your close friends.
2. From the start: Increase the IC with industry tech without rushing ahead of time.
3. From the start: Build 2 or 3 more industries. Build one industri at a time in any 0 IC province.
4. From the start: Set up a series production of airbases that will allow you to rebase your (comming) air units were they are needed.
5. Do not build any units during the first two years! Instead, save any remaining IC to build a good supply reserve.
6. When your base IC is increased to 20 you will get an extra reseach slot. Then, start researching early infantry, basic close support aircrafts early cavalry, artillery, basic fighters and some more industry tech. If necessary, trade a small amount of your supplies for money.
7. When you have researched up to an acceptabel level (basic exept for close support aircraft which needs to be improved for range reasons) start producing units in serial runs. Also create 2 coastal fortifications in Malmö and some more AA along the south coast. The reason for starting military production this late is to save build up a good supply depo and save upgrade costs. Go for an infantry army with brigades and somy semi motorized cavalry and a strong airforce with close support aircrafts and a few fighters.