Leon Trotsky and the Comintern

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I was wondering what events might have occured if Leon Trotsky leader the Soviet Union instead of Stalin.

I slapped together a "timeline", if you can call it that, of what happens, then what happens next.... blah blah blah, you get the drift from the year 1936.

I'd like to create a scenario, with the only difference being that Leon Trotsky is the leader of the Soviet Union. So, feed back is VERY welcome


THE SITUATION AS OF 1936
Germany is Left Winged Radical
The dictatorship of the proletariat is close at hand in Germany
Soviet army remains in war-time mode
Poland and Romania become increasingly militant to counter this
Germany's dissent raises as facists and counter-revolutionaries fight new reforms being brought in by the government
Croatia wants independence
Poland has agreements with the little Entente (Romania, Czechslovakia, Yugoslavia)
France guarantees to "support" Poland and the Little Entente (Romania, Czechslovakia, Yugoslavia) in the case of Soviet agression


THE SPANISH CIVIL WAR
Civil War in Spain
Germany sends supplies to the republic of spain
Soviet Union send supplies to the republic of spain
Italy sends supplies to nationlist spain

Republic of Spain Victorious!
Republic of Spain is Left Winged Radical


THE POWER OF THE COMINTERN
Soviet Union demands that all colonies of imperial powers declare there independence
Soviet Union talks of Easter Poland belonging to the Bylerussian and Ukranian Republics

Sours relations with UK, France, Yugoslavia, Czechslovakia, Romania, Italy

Communist Activities in Croatia, Eastern Poland, Moldavia, Slovakia
Communist Activities in Vietnam

France becomes Social Conservitive in the fear of Soviet Agression

Soviet Union sends supplies for the unrest in Vietnam


THE BREAK UP OF YUGOSLAVIA
Croatia declares independence
Soviet, German, Spanish support to Croatia
Yugoslavian land goes to Italy, Austria, Hungary, Greece, Bulgaria, Albania.
Yugoslavia changes its name to Serbia
Montenegro declares independence

Serbia cedes from the Little Entente


THE NATIONAL SOCIALIST COUP IN GERMANY
National Socialist and Counter-Revolutionaries are on the move in Germany
National Socialists Stage a coup in germany!
Communists in germany begin street fights with the new german government


SOVIET UNION DECLARES WAR ON POLAND
Soviet Union decides that it must "bridge the gap" between itself and Germany to help the Communists overthrow the National Socialist Government
Soviet Union demands military access
Poland refuses, Soviet troops enter Polish territory
Soviet Union declares war on Poland
Romania declares war on the Soviet Union
France sends supplies to Poland and Romania
Czechoslovakia remains neutral (sends supplies)

NOTE (see bottom of the post)

THE DEFEAT OF POLAND AND ROMANIA
Poland and Romania have been defeated!

Germany becomes Leninist due to the successful Communist coup against the National Socialists

Northern transilvania is occupied by hungary
Constanta is occupied by Bulgaria
Romania cedes the moldavian republic to the USSR
Romania becomes leninist

Poland cedes Eastern Poland to the USSR
Poland cedes Danzig to Germany
Poland becomes leninist


SLOVAKIAN INDEPENDENCE
Slovakia declares independence
Slovakian lands go to Soviet Union and Hungary


THE ANTI-COMINTERN PACT
UK, France, Italy, Japan, Hungary and many other nations sign the Anti-Comintern Pact


FINLAND AND THE BALTIC STATES
Soviet Union demands the Baltic States (including finland) accept Communism
Baltic states refuse!
Soviet Union invades the Baltics and Finland!


THE BEGINNING OF WORLD WAR II
The League of Nations finally decides to get off its arse!


IF:

COMINTERN DEFEATS ALL SCANDANAVIAN NATIONS
Creates the Scandanavian Union

COMINTERN DEFEATS SERBIA, ALBANIA AND BULGARIA
Creates the South Slav Federation (Yugoslavia, Albania, Bulgaria)

COMINTERN DEFEATS AUSTRIA
Austria is annexed by Germany (All Germans in Germany makes sense to me)

COMINTERN DEFEATS THE CZECH REPUBLIC
Slovakia annexes the Czech Republic and becomes Czechoslovakia again

COMINTERN DEFEATS HUNGARY
Hungary gives land back to Slovakia and Romania

COMINTERN DEFEATS TURKEY
Land goes to Greece (Ethnic Greeks) (Instanbul)

COMINTERN CONTROLS SYRIA, LEBANON, PALESTINE, JORDAN, IRAQ, EGYPT
Creates the Arab Socialist Union


Note: If the player is playing Poland, it will be possible for them to recreate the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and free Ukraine from the Soviet Union. Then afterwards it will have to deal with the new National Socialist Government that has gained power in Germany.


Once again, its very sloppily put together, sorry

 

[Miltiades]

Why would Germany be left wing radical? Why would Spain be left wing radical? Some things don't make sense to me.

 

[unmerged(53640)]

Why would Germany be left wing radical? Why would Spain be left wing radical? Some things don't make sense to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_fascism

Trotsky would have pressured the Communist Party of Germany into creating a Anti-Fascist Front with the Social Democrats (which were considered to be the Social Fascists).

With an Alliance between the Communist Party and the Social Democrats, and with the Comintern not being thrown into the gutter as Stalin had done to it, I'd like to think that Germany being Left Winged Radical is a possiblility with the German people thinking that Communism would be the answer to their woes.

Hitler would probably never of come to power too.

As for Spain, the Soviet Union would of had more involvement, and not pulled out as early with Trotsky (Stalin loved his Socialism in one country after all). Also there would be no Communists fighting Communists in Spain. With Stalin he ensured that all those sypathetic to the Trotsky cause, were got rid of.

So, more communists in spain, more intervention from leftist nations, I think that might be enough to justify both Spain and Germany being left winged radical.


And yes im sorry, its all very hastily put together.

 

[unmerged(52351)]

For there to be a left Wing Radical Germany the Soviet Union would've won the Polish-Soviet War.

 

[Seten]

agree with laminustacitus , totally

I think you should keep a n-s germany
in 1936 it would be a kind of cold war , germany and urss rearmed massively , soviet union preparing a big full scall assault political attack that would result in a war versus germany and the allies vs a stronger soviet union (trotski reorganized the red army , support modern warfare etc etc ).

Dont forget asia , i think sov would have support massively mao and trying to play a role in india too

Really interesting alternative story
The only prob is that troski wanted full war against all non communist world , since the beginning it was his plan vs the isolationist stalin
I think there would have been a war earlier than in 1936

 

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COMINTERN DEFEATS SERBIA, ALBANIA AND BULGARIA
Creates the South Slav Federation (Yugoslavia, Albania, Bulgaria)

Uh, Yugoslavia means "South Slav Land" so this could be the Yugoslavian Federation of even Yugoslavia itself.

 

[unmerged(53640)]

Ok, I've done some more researching.

I'm thinking of making a scenario that starts at 1929.

Pre 1929
USSR:
USSR has a better army, but is not as stable as it would of been under stalin (Great Purges). The industrialisation is not as good either. If penetrated deeply enough by enemy armies, it might just fall flat on its face. Also the USSR will not ever join the League of Nations.

China:
When the Left Guomindang split with the Right winged faction in 1927, the communist party had not thrown its lot in with a bloc of leaders... instead it had by now become a mass movement in the Left Guomindang. This has given the Left Guomindang the support it needed to survive the bulk of the army controlled by the Right winged faction. However the Left Guomindang have so far not been able to defeat the Right wing faction. There are currently 3 capitals in China. The internationally recognised warlord one in Beiping, the Right winged faction of the Guomindang and the Left Guomindang in Wuhan.

Germany:
There is no "Social Fascism". This will allow the Communist Party of Germany to concentrate on the national socialists first. Also the Communist Party in Germany is marginaly larger.

Poland:
Poland has become increasingly militant and authorative, to combat the build up of Soviet forces along its boarder.

Romania:
Romania in fear of Soviet agression has formed a defensive alliance with Poland.

UK and France:
With the UK and France being colonial empires, and the Comintern's policy of Colonies declaring independence from their imperial masters, Communism is not appealing to the english and french and in the future they may find that they are forced to take precautions to prevent this sickness from spreading. Romania and Yugoslavia are also viewed as colonial empires.

Italy:
Is a good guy at the moment as there hasnt been the Ethiopian War.


1929
THE GREAT DEPRESSION BEGINS!
Tatlin's Tower is completed in Leningrad
Spain is a monarchy
Germany is Social Democratic


1930
German elections (September)
-Germany is still Social Democratic
-Germany sees the rise of National Socialism (Becomes the 2nd largest party)
-The Comintern orders the Communist Party of German to begin to form a "United Front Against Fascism" with the Social Democrats.


1931
Spain becomes a republic
Japan invades Manchuria (Mukden Incident)
International Community is outraged (Manchuria is the leader of the internationally recognised Warlord capital in China)


1932
German elections (July)
-The National Socialists are the largest single party
-The Communist Party of Germany are the 2nd largest party
-The Anti-Nazi Alliance is created (United Front Against Fascism)
-The Communist Party of Germany heads the Anti-Nazi Alliance
-Germany becomes Left Winged Radical
-The Communist Party of Germany begins to bring in radical laws
-Germany is now on the verge of a Civil War (Counter Revolutionaries)
-The Counter-Revolutionaries are led by the National Socialists
-National Socialists stage a coup in Germany
-Violent backlash against Communists
-USSR decides that it cannot afford to leave Germany to its fate.
-Soviet troops being to enter Poland
-Poland demands that the USSR remove its troops immediately
-USSR declares war on Poland
-Romania enacts its alliance with Poland
-France is unable to act (Great Depression)


1933
Should Poland and Romania be defeated by now:
-Poland shall become a Soviet Republic of the USSR.
-Germany will become leninist (Communist Coup over the National Socialist Government).
-Romania will become leninist.
-Moldavia will become a Soviet Republic of the USSR.
-Hungary will occupy northern transylvania.
-Bulgaria will occupy Constanta.

USSR is near defeat:
-Germany is now National Socialist
-Poland re-creates the POLISH-LITHUANIAN COMMONWEALTH
-Poland will now have to also deal with the new German menace
-For Germany, the Polish Commonwealth will be the new USSR
-Japan makes military advances in the eastern USSR.


1934
Communists in Slovakia declare a Slovakian Socialist Republic
No countries are prepared to do anything, yet.
Czechoslovakia becomes Fascist.
Slovakia becomes a soviet republic of the USSR as protection.

UK and Italy sign an Anti-Comintern Pact. (Possibly latter signed by France and Japan)


Ok, so i'm thinking that in the end it will be a World War around maybe 1934-1936 between the League of Nations and the Comintern. All comments are greatly appreciated

 

[Sarmatia1871]

All seems reasonably plausible - you might have to adjust the starting techs and OOBs a bit though if you're starting in 1929. A couple of things I could think up would be:

* Maybe have an option for Germany to collapse into a civil war when the Nazis attempt their coup - there are three German TAGs in the vanilla game, after all!
* You could possibly also give the Russians the option to interfere a bit in the founding of the Spanish Republic - even though Soviet-style Communism wasn't very popular in Spain until the Civil War, they might still try to take advantage of the situation through aiding various radical groups.

 

[unmerged(53640)]

I'm just wondering what would be the final straw for the League of Nations which would allow a World War II

1. Croatian communists declare independence from Serbian dominated Yugoslavia? Although Italy, Austria, Hungary and Bulgaria would of supported the end of Yugoslavia as they all would of made gains.

2. Soviet Union invades the Baltics and/or Finland (Perhaps unlikey that the Soviet Union would be that agressive with Leon Trotsky as he wouldnt want to tarnish the appeal of Communism)

3. Soviet Union goes to war with Japan (Unlikely that Europe would go to war over that.

4. France declares war on the Soviet Union for interfering significantly in the French Indochina.

5. Spanish Civil War becomes a war of ideologies, and no one can help but swing one way or the other.

I really want to have a World War, but i want to make sure it is plausible. Something allong the lines of [USSR, Germany, Communist China, Spain, Romania, (maybe Croatia)] VS [UK, France, Italy, Austria, Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, Japan, (maybe Serbia or Yugoslavia), and maybe latter the USA].

 

[unmerged(53640)]

Asia in 1929:
The Left Guomindang are orange, and Nationalist China is light Yellow.
I still need to add a few extra warlords here and there, let me know what you think.
It's loosly based on the situation in China in 1926.
The Northern expedition was not able to continue north to Beiping due to the violent split with the Left Guomindang.




Europe in 1933:
Poland, Slovakia and Moldavia are now all Soviet Republics in the USSR.
Romania is a puppet nation. Germany is allied with the USSR.