I hope that HoI4 will change that :rofl:
Resources traveling like supplies on map and a different approach to production +more resources ... just a dream
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I hope that HoI4 will change that :rofl:
Resources traveling like supplies on map and a different approach to production +more resources ... just a dream
its also quite contrary to the point of this thread. It represents a gigantic abstraction that could easily be reduced in PI gives it some effort, and we're discussing ways of doing it.
As to how this might work, if its possible to build divisions at various strengths, such as fielding a division intentionally at 5% manpower, in exchange for reduced production time(you are after all skipping ALOT of manpower training), it now satisfies the ability to trade a division that essentially is all equipment, that once given is fleshed out using the recipients manpower, can absorb some losses in transit, and isn't entirely fielded by the constructing country.
This would also allow for additional divisions to be fielded in the face of low manpower, at the direct expense of combat capability, so, for example, a country in peace time could field alot of divisions, and not break the bank for manpower, as they could easily have the eqiupment handy(USSR and its obscenely large WW2 equipment stockpiles that it kept for a LONG time after......may still have, not sure), then just costs you manpower and some ic in reinforcement, and you have a fully manned division.
Yup. But the word hack (particularly in my field) refers to you taking something and making it work as you want it to, but using tools that were never designed to work that way and so tends to be clumsy and inelegant. And as Paradox are making a new game, I'm hoping they design the stuff to work the way we want it ti.
In HoI2 trade is affected by efficiency rates and if you have fleets/subs in their path that efficiency drops. I do not know the exact mechanism and how aircraft on convoy bombing missions affects this efficiency but it is not always 100% (not all the trades get through).
Perhaps they can make Lend Lease event-triggered supply trades that can be intercepted. Sending supplies is a good abstraction because, as Zeekater already said, supplies received frees up IC for equipment builds for same overall impact.
Also, it would be good to make overseas trades travel just like supplies and be limited by port size (and only allowed onshore for major ports not the minor ones). This would funnel trade convoys through predictable areas for interdiction. Probably asking too much for it to travel like supplies once it hits land though.
Finally, it would be nice to add some message/feedback to let you know when you are lowering enemy trade convoys, so that you can adjust when you are having no effect.
Perhaps they can make Lend Lease event-triggered supply trades that can be intercepted. Sending supplies is a good abstraction because, as Zeekater already said, supplies received frees up IC for equipment builds for same overall impact.
Also, it would be good to make overseas trades travel just like supplies and be limited by port size (and only allowed onshore for major ports not the minor ones). This would funnel trade convoys through predictable areas for interdiction. Probably asking too much for it to travel like supplies once it hits land though.
Finally, it would be nice to add some message/feedback to let you know when you are lowering enemy trade convoys, so that you can adjust when you are having no effect.
That's what I said
Plus, I still like the idea of being able to transport small parts of a division as a resource and have them rebuilt on the other end as opposed to strat redeploy. They should make full use of their new logistics system.
d'oh! read the thread and still somehow missed that fact, well, that aside, consider me a firm suporter, lolThat's what I said
Plus, I still like the idea of being able to transport small parts of a division as a resource and have them rebuilt on the other end as opposed to strat redeploy. They should make full use of their new logistics system.
Supplies already include replacement equipment, so it isn't that much of a leap IMO
supplies include spare parts, not spare equipment, thats attrition, and replaced by reinforcement, whether neglible or significant is unimportant.
The entire point here is that supplies do not represent lend lease in a sufficient manner. They are just that, ammunition, canned foods, wrenches, bolts, a deck plate, but not equipment. This is also why producing supplies doesn't help your TC, supplies aren't equipment, not even something as simple and basic as a transport truck.
I don't see the problem with having supplies represent lend-lease...
They go from the US to England, they can be intercepted by sinking convoys, they make sure England can have more units...
I'd combine it with some license-building, then you also get the 'sherman' flavor name. Or with brigade-buying, if that is still in (hasn't been covered in any of the DD's)
zeekater said:
Not to say that supplies as they are in HoI were not sent via lend lease (I'm not sure about that point) for certain things that are not vehicles, tanks and various weapons - the existing supply convoy system works fine. It's just for all those weapons that we see as an intrinsic part of a unit (vehicles, tanks, halftracks, anti-tanks guns and so on) that the supplies do not represent.
And I do see what you're saying, supplies = IC investment, the same as a unit and it is transportable, but as I said, as they're making a new game, why not make a system that represents lend-lease in a satisfactory way?
Lend lease in HoI2 didn't include shipments of supplies to England. They appeared in London instantly, so they couldn't be intercepted.
England gets a free license-build Sherman brigade (or whatever) in it's production list, the USA sends supplies to England to represent the IC-investment. How about that?
Or, England receives a 1% Sherman brigade that is placed in Newfoundland plus supplies (but sending equipment isn't the same as sending a brigade, the brigade uses transport ships and not convoys and gets sunk entirely if that transport ship sinks)
Or, a 100% sherman brigade but also a loss of manpower (this one is overpowering IMO)
There are endless possibilities if you think a bit abstract. "Supplies" is just a name.
England gets a free license-build Sherman brigade (or whatever) in it's production list, the USA sends supplies to England to represent the IC-investment. How about that?
Or, England receives a 1% Sherman brigade that is placed in Newfoundland plus supplies (but sending equipment isn't the same as sending a brigade, the brigade uses transport ships and not convoys and gets sunk entirely if that transport ship sinks)
Or, a 100% sherman brigade but also a loss of manpower (this one is overpowering IMO)
There are endless possibilities if you think a bit abstract. "Supplies" is just a name.
Yeah, that was not good enough at all.
It's all fine and good (certainly better than the event system), don't get me wrong, I'm not against any of your ideas, all I'm saying is that as this is a new game that is still in development I'm going to do my best to illustrate drastic changes for the better.zeekater said:
When discussing ideas and changes, so many people seems to be unable or unwilling to think outside of the game mechanism of HoI2. I'm going to do my best to come up with ideas that I think are the best way of doing things, (almost) irrespective of how difficult they are to implement or how realistic the prospect of them being put in the game is. I do not mean this as a bad thing against you at all, you're probably just more of a realist than me when it comes to discussing features that may be put in the game - Your ideas are far more practical than mine
That said, I'd like to think that I and some others have had a good influence of the game and though it's probably a coincidence I swear some of the things I've asked for have been implemented in one way or another.
zeekater said:
See my previous post (#11)
Your idea of transporting a division using convoys is very good, it would remove some of micromanagement and the need to babysit your transports.
A special lend-lease division would be too much though. It's very straight forward of course. You want to send tanks to England so you build a brigade that represents the equipment only, send it to england and have it change into a regular brigade there.. very cumbersome IMO. You'd have to add an entire system of changing brigade types (which could be in already, there's a 'militia conversion' tech) just to simulate lend-lease.
I used to think like that too, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that the abstract systems for the game really come down to the same and are better, even though not as straight forward
A special lend-lease division would be too much though. It's very straight forward of course. You want to send tanks to England so you build a brigade that represents the equipment only, send it to england and have it change into a regular brigade there.. very cumbersome IMO. You'd have to add an entire system of changing brigade types (which could be in already, there's a 'militia conversion' tech) just to simulate lend-lease.
I used to think like that too, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that the abstract systems for the game really come down to the same and are better, even though not as straight forward