Legit Russia is [expletive deleted] terrible

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Hamor

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Have 1k hours in eu, played russia extensively ottomans stomp on me with ease this ain't right how [expletive deleted] Russia is now. When you finally do a landgrab and take claims say off crimea btw which had 2 6 shock generals ([expletive deleted]) raised auto and still as Russia I can get up to 250k rebels spawning. Russia seriously got nerfed way too [expletive deleted] hard. It needs to be a tier 1 nation as it was in 1.7

P.S Ah I miss 1.7 the superpowers were so well balanced within one another, I do agree with things like the buff on Spain but Muscovy is legit [expletive deleted] it cannot contend with the Ottomans and the ridiculously good generals the hoardes get for some [expletive deleted] up reason makes it a ridiculous strangle attempt to kill them
 
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_judge_

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I have played a recent Russia game in 1.8 and never really had a problem, I'm in the 1730 now, and I can take on a coalition of Otto's, Timmy's and oirat horde (which was really big untill I started taking swaths of land of it)
 

Hamor

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I have played a recent Russia game in 1.8 and never really had a problem, I'm in the 1730 now, and I can take on a coalition of Otto's, Timmy's and oirat horde (which was really big untill I started taking swaths of land of it)

You're late game and you're finally steamrolling lol 1730, try a multiplayer game where a country matters
 

oblio-

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You're late game and you're finally steamrolling lol 1730, try a multiplayer game where a country matters
Isn't multiplayer more about diplomacy than anything else? Also, don't we have a multiplayer subforum? :)
 

lolada

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Russia is really strong, played it just recently and ate most of hordes territory no problem. Russia just need to time wars with hordes carefully, since hordes are stronger first few tech levels. Don't fight them in their territory in plains (they have shock bonus), and wait a bit, they will fight and kill their armies between themselves.

Ottomans are tough as they should be. They have one of the best armies in the game, and they are usually stronger then Russia quality wise. But Russia should have twice the soldiers, and with good generals and ideas (Innovative will keep you at high army tradition - gives great generals, offensive military ideas give good bonuses plus discipline, and defensive is also great) can beat Ottomans. You could probably easily ally Austria or Poland/Hungary to help you siege them.
 

Tacticus101

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Isn't multiplayer more about diplomacy than anything else? Also, don't we have a multiplayer subforum? :)

I think his point was that multiplayer is where the nations against you will be as good as you (ie, players) and so will expand as much as you. Steamrolling by 1730 has less to do with the nation to pick and more to do with the fact that the AI simply does not expand as much as a human can, in multiplayer you cant steamroll.


I do however think that if you lose as Muscovy it is entirely your own fault. If you end up with 250k rebels or struggle against Crimea then it is your own fault. All the problems he lists are entirely within his control to solve.
 

kerowhacko

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What on earth did you do to get 250k rebels to spawn? Massive overextension? Lots of wrong religion, wrong culture provinces?

I came close to that once as MOS -> RUS mostly due to fiddling around with Westernizing for kicks. Westernizing a bit late (ie, around 1600) leads to an interesting spot to be in when the Time of Troubles fires immediately after. I think I may still have that save sitting around, and I don't think I want to try :)
 

Azraeil

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Have 1k hours in eu, played russia extensively ottomans stomp on me with ease this ain't right how shit Russia is now. When you finally do a landgrab and take claims say off crimea btw which had 2 6 shock generals (bullshit) raised auto and still as Russia I can get up to 250k rebels spawning. Russia seriously got nerfed way too fucking hard. It needs to be a tier 1 nation as it was in 1.7

P.S Ah I miss 1.7 the superpowers were so well balanced within one another, I do agree with things like the buff on Spain but Muscovy is legit shit it cannot contend with the Ottomans and the ridiculously good generals the hoardes get for some fucked up reason makes it a ridiculous strangle attempt to kill them

Russia is certainly doable, but good god is the commonwealth a monster now. I think my main problem with Russia is just the extreme poverty before I was able to properly siphon trade to Novgorod. I nearly rage quit twice, first in this god awful war against the Commonwealth, DOTF France, Sweden and a couple other mid size nations, and second in another god awful war with the Commonwealth. The first lasted no less than 20 years, watching Sweden and Commonwealth seige to Moskva, patiently waiting for non-co-belligerents to white peace, even more for the Commonwealths manpower to run low and slowly turn the tide. The second was a similar process but only took 10 years. The third was a cakewalk.

Current borders. Certainly not my best single-tag playthrough in terms of basetax, but definitely satisfying given the events that had expired (no less than 7 dead heirs, basically no reliable allies, etc)

vJH2Tde.jpg
 

Freudia

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I like how these threads are always about Russia, and they always cite 'I have played over 1000 hours as Russia prior to 1.8, and I can't do as well as I used to' as reasoning for why Russia should be buffed.
 

oblio-

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Russia is certainly doable, but good god is the commonwealth a monster now. I think my main problem with Russia is just the extreme poverty before I was able to properly siphon trade to Novgorod. I nearly rage quit twice, first in this god awful war against the Commonwealth, DOTF France, Sweden and a couple other mid size nations, and second in another god awful war with the Commonwealth. The first lasted no less than 20 years, watching Sweden and Commonwealth seige to Moskva, patiently waiting for non-co-belligerents to white peace, even more for the Commonwealths manpower to run low and slowly turn the tide. The second was a similar process but only took 10 years. The third was a cakewalk.
Your wars seem quite historical: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Muscovite_War_(1605–18)
 

TheMeInTeam

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You can spank Ottomans with nations like Sunda, Kilwa, and Benin in this game in SP. Not being able to do it as Russia sounds off.

In MP, you have to contend with diplomacy; very few nations can contend with Ottomans if they get Janissary discipline other than late-game Japan that somehow blobbed or Prussia. Maybe Songhai, if someone even plays them and the Iberians don't curb stomp them, since Songhai can sit at large army trad. Still, you have big manpower and FL boosters and if you stack military ideas + take policies you should be fine unless you're trying to solo a powerful alliance or Ottomans just outblobbed you.

A player nation having problems with AI hordes after the first 20-30 years of the game is a red flag, not a situation where you can take an assertion of nation weakness seriously.
 

Had a dad

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Just a reminder foul language is not allowed on this forum
 

yerm

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Have 1k hours in eu, played russia extensively ottomans stomp on me with ease this ain't right how shit Russia is now. When you finally do a landgrab and take claims say off crimea btw which had 2 6 shock generals (bullshit) raised auto and still as Russia I can get up to 250k rebels spawning. Russia seriously got nerfed way too fucking hard. It needs to be a tier 1 nation as it was in 1.7

P.S Ah I miss 1.7 the superpowers were so well balanced within one another, I do agree with things like the buff on Spain but Muscovy is legit shit it cannot contend with the Ottomans and the ridiculously good generals the hoardes get for some fucked up reason makes it a ridiculous strangle attempt to kill them

Why should Russia be a tier 1 nation? I've been told they're only a regional power!

In all seriousness, how is Russia weak? Unlike other great powers, you start a multiplayer game lined up to expand where others may be surrounded by humans who will not let you. Trying to play Castile or Austria when a human is in France, and vice versa, really slows things down. Muscovy, meanwhile, is probably not facing a bunch of humans in Kazan and Golden Horde etc. So you can still push AT LEAST to the east just fine. Russia gets massive bonuses to manpower, force limit, and some army tradition - perfectly good combat ideas. How is your military struggling? Did you grab like aristocracy and quantity for your only military idea groups or something? I don't see how you can whine about generals with a country who gets an army tradition bonus, about rebel totals when your country is THE BEST at recovering manpower as you whack-a-mole them away, or about Crimea (a horde) being OP in 1.8!

Sorry, but it seems clear that the problem here is you are bad. You're either bad at the game or you're bad at diplomacy. If it's just you and the Ottomans and a bunch of ai, sure, you ARE at a disadvantage. So is almost everyone but a very few select western great powers. If it's a multiplayer game with a bunch of players, and nobody picked Mamluks, Timurids, or anything else that might counter the Ottomans, so they can out-expand Russia, AND people aren't helping you defeat such an obvious blob... it sounds like you failed at either picks or diplomacy. If you ARE in a game with a bunch of people, you are one of the few truly powerful countries that is almost impossible, barring an early team-up, to stop from being able to expand somewhere. They can't keep you out of Siberia, and out of the hordes, and out of Novgorod, and out of Lithuania. If other human players deliberately picked all these various countries and prevented you from expanding, perhaps you should suck it up and not pick Muscovy?
 

UlrichVonBaden

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Russia didn't really come into it's own until the Napoleonic Wars, which is right at the end of the game. They only just barely held off the Swedes and the Commonwealth in previous centuries, and were only able to overcome them after Peter and Catherine's very significant reforms. Their most significant expansion periods into Eastern Europe and Asia didn't happen until after the game's time frame. So I see no reason why Russia should be buffed. As some previous posters have stated, Russia has a lot of advantages, and a skilled player should have almost no problems with them; they're currently very viable as is.
 

HMatsunaga54

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As a long time Russia player, I can see the points. You don't really get any reliable allies early bar vassals while your enemies can have some strong allies in the Timurids and Ottomans Respectively for Muslims, and Lithuania usually allies Poland so going west is not really an option. The hordes alone are nothing, and generals are a luck of the draw, the Ottomans however can stomp you hard that even having twice as many troops against them may not even help.
 

Meridian235

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If you have such a poor grasp of the rebellion mechanics that you are having rebel issues this serious, take humanist.

It's certainly not an optimal choice for Muscovy, but if you are unable to manage your unrest and overextension by grasping the finer points of vassal feeding, it's a suitable crutch.

Likewise, if you cannot manage to avoid incurring unnecessary attrition due to not understanding the mechanics or winter and supply limits, take quantity. This, in addition to your national ideas, will allow you to ignore these mechanics and simply regenerate through the attrition.

Alternately, you could read the hundreds of threads on Muscovy and improve as a player. Muscovy is one of the strongest nations this side of France. Dealing with Poland/Lithuania and breaking their PU before they become an unstoppable blob is important. Not sitting 20k men in a province with severe winter and 5k supply limit is a good thing to understand. Vassalizing a horde and feeding them your Muslim provinces is good. There are advanced nuances like feeding Nogai as a released Orthodox nation to take advantage of their religious ideas, abusing horde vassals for their excellent CB, and other good advanced play tips that you can pick up along the way.