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Garbageolopogos

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Nov 10, 2023
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Everyone on the forum seems to be talking about Byzantines and landless play. Nobody is talking about legendary buildings, which are very briefly mentioned in the video and on a screenshot for Legends of the Dead.

Anyone want to speculate on what legendary buildings are going to look like? Making your own great buildings outside of the historical ones has been a request for a while (maybe not as vocal as others but still). I remember playing Medieval II: Total War and being able to build giant cathedrals after a lot of time and resources and I'm hoping I can do that again in CK3.

I am optimistic this means I can have an ahistoric capital and build it to match the bonuses of a great temple or something. I kind of hate de jure Kingdom capitals anyways as I feel like it railroads you into moving your demesne to wherever has the most advantageous holdings instead of allowing the center of the kingdom to arise organically, so hopefully legendary buildings will change that.

Obviously this is going to have to be balanced with stacking income and stuff. I'm assuming legendary buildings are a late-ish game thing.
 
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We have a basic idea of what is available:

legbuildings.png


But your guess as to the bonuses is as good as mine. I'd say it probably depends on how much progress they managed to make on the dynamic nature of plague traits. The Hastiluder trait was the first step into that direction, so making deseases dynamic, and by extension other things like buildings, would be a natural evolution.
 
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But your guess as to the bonuses is as good as mine. I'd say it probably depends on how much progress they managed to make on the dynamic nature of plague traits. The Hastiluder trait was the first step into that direction, so making deseases dynamic, and by extension other things like buildings, would be a natural evolution.
Oh I hadn't seen that picture. Yeah well I'm assuming it'll be tied to the 'legends' thing somehow. Hunting lodge seems sort of weird but I guess a royal 'hunting lodge' is more like a country estate.

I was hoping to be able to build the Ulm Minster in my new capital but I guess not. Maybe the shrine is something similar.
 
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They're buildings. They give bonuses in various stats. They'll probably be like regular buildings but a bit better. I hope they're really expensive. CK3 needs more good money sinks.

People are talking about unlanded gameplay because it's completely changing the nature of the game. Before I would have called CK3 a strategy game with light RPG elements. After Roads to Power, I will call CK3 a Strategy-RPG.

You're going to be able to go on Marco Polo-like odysseys from Europe to India. It's going to feel like a new game almost. Get hyped with us!
 
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They're buildings. They give bonuses in various stats. They'll probably be like regular buildings but a bit better. I hope they're really expensive. CK3 needs more good money sinks.

People are talking about unlanded gameplay because it's completely changing the nature of the game. Before I would have called CK3 a strategy game with light RPG elements. After Roads to Power, I will call CK3 a Strategy-RPG.

You're going to be able to go on Marco Polo-like odysseys from Europe to India. It's going to feel like a new game almost. Get hyped with us!
I likewise hope they are very expensive.

I wasn't complaining about the amount of unlanded-themed posting, just an observation. And I wanted to talk about the buildings.

That being said, without this expansion I've already done a lot of adventuring. Off the top of my head I can recall conquering India as vikings, becoming the byzantine emperor as a viking, conquering the Baltics as a norman, conquering egypt with a bunch of different people, conquering persia as Haestein, etc.

I'm not very hyped on the landless thing because, before adding non feudal ruler play to the feudal ruler game, I would have liked to have seen other 'systematic' improvements, like for instance, making the pope not be completely meaningless and a total nonfactor, making warfare balanced, making crusades playable, making holy orders meaningful landed realms and not just free troops, and so on - i.e. a religion DLC. Or a warfare DLC. Or an economic/realm management DLC.

I would like to see improvements to being a feudal ruler, the only kind of character you can play right now, before adding new kinds of characters to play.

Instead, like you said, I can be Marco polo. Hopefully its more than clicking through a bunch of goofy events which become insanely repetitive after the second time. Maybe I'm wrong and it will be the best DLC ever. I do like the plague events, I like byzantine content, the legend thing might be cool too, so I guess we'll see.
 
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I likewise hope they are very expensive.

I wasn't complaining about the amount of unlanded-themed posting, just an observation. And I wanted to talk about the buildings.

That being said, without this expansion I've already done a lot of adventuring. Off the top of my head I can recall conquering India as vikings, becoming the byzantine emperor as a viking, conquering the Baltics as a norman, conquering egypt with a bunch of different people, conquering persia as Haestein, etc.

I'm not very hyped on the landless thing because, before adding non feudal ruler play to the feudal ruler game, I would have liked to have seen other 'systematic' improvements, like for instance, making the pope not be completely meaningless and a total nonfactor, making warfare balanced, making crusades playable, making holy orders meaningful landed realms and not just free troops, and so on - i.e. a religion DLC. Or a warfare DLC. Or an economic/realm management DLC.

I would like to see improvements to being a feudal ruler, the only kind of character you can play right now, before adding new kinds of characters to play.

Instead, like you said, I can be Marco polo. Hopefully its more than clicking through a bunch of goofy events which become insanely repetitive after the second time. Maybe I'm wrong and it will be the best DLC ever. I do like the plague events, I like byzantine content, the legend thing might be cool too, so I guess we'll see.
Roads to Power is coming in Q3 and that will add the unlanded adventurers. In Q4, they're releasing Wandering Nobles which is an event pack based around travel and making it interesting. I'm optimistic.
 
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just from looking here they seem a little lackluster but got to wait. would've liked to see some customization based on what kind of legends you got. And as mentioned the hunting lodge & watchtower feels a bit boring/not quite suited for a legendary building, at least the name. (fortress/castle instead of watchtower perhaps).
But i am very happy we get something like this at all as ive been requesting it to make gameplay in areas without any special buildings feel better.
 
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I'm not very hyped on the landless thing because, before adding non feudal ruler play to the feudal ruler game, I would have liked to have seen other 'systematic' improvements, like for instance, making the pope not be completely meaningless and a total nonfactor, making warfare balanced, making crusades playable, making holy orders meaningful landed realms and not just free troops, and so on - i.e. a religion DLC. Or a warfare DLC. Or an economic/realm management DLC.

I would like to see improvements to being a feudal ruler, the only kind of character you can play right now, before adding new kinds of characters to play.
Have exactly the same feeling on this. I would be happy to pay triple the price of chapter III for any of those on your list rather than the announced content.
 
Have exactly the same feeling on this. I would be happy to pay triple the price of chapter III for any of those on your list rather than the announced content.
Youd pay double ck3s launch price for those features?
I likewise hope they are very expensive.

I wasn't complaining about the amount of unlanded-themed posting, just an observation. And I wanted to talk about the buildings.

That being said, without this expansion I've already done a lot of adventuring. Off the top of my head I can recall conquering India as vikings, becoming the byzantine emperor as a viking, conquering the Baltics as a norman, conquering egypt with a bunch of different people, conquering persia as Haestein, etc.

I'm not very hyped on the landless thing because, before adding non feudal ruler play to the feudal ruler game, I would have liked to have seen other 'systematic' improvements, like for instance, making the pope not be completely meaningless and a total nonfactor, making warfare balanced, making crusades playable, making holy orders meaningful landed realms and not just free troops, and so on - i.e. a religion DLC. Or a warfare DLC. Or an economic/realm management DLC.

I would like to see improvements to being a feudal ruler, the only kind of character you can play right now, before adding new kinds of characters to play.

Instead, like you said, I can be Marco polo. Hopefully its more than clicking through a bunch of goofy events which become insanely repetitive after the second time. Maybe I'm wrong and it will be the best DLC ever. I do like the plague events, I like byzantine content, the legend thing might be cool too, so I guess we'll see.
How do you make warfare balanced?
 
Yeah I would, in my opinion CK3 is in dire need of systematic improvements to warfare and religions, including crusades, holy order, head of faith and so on. Those should be a core of strategy part of these game and I fear that devs put much more focus on RP elements of this game rather than strategy.
 
Unlikely but would like them to have a visual impact on the map. So can see them if built. My secret wish for the game has always been holding sprawl.
 
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CK3 needs more good money sinks.
I see a problem here though.

Bonuses are really good early-mid game. But if buildings are money sinks then they'll cost thousands of ducats.
Which you shouldn't ''''''''waste'''''''''' early on. I mean, upgrading your castles and buildings is probably more important than building a legendary building.

On the other hand, by the late game, money is going to be meaningless. Every county you have is going to be making almost 100 ducats without you even realising it.
And then you'll have vassal taxes.
That's when you can building whatever you want... But by then bonuses won't be too useful.
I already have +40 in every stat from my traits, buildings, perks and objects. Increasing the number won't change things.

So again, I fear this might be another ''Win more'' mechanic.
By the time buildings will be useful, you won't be able to build them.
By the time you can build them, they won't be useful.

The exception to this, from my experience, is getting money from the crusades and the Pope, but that feels like cheating the system.
Using the pope as a medieval ATM that gives you 1500 ducats every few years feels pretty broken.
 
I see a problem here though.

Bonuses are really good early-mid game. But if buildings are money sinks then they'll cost thousands of ducats.
Which you shouldn't ''''''''waste'''''''''' early on. I mean, upgrading your castles and buildings is probably more important than building a legendary building.

On the other hand, by the late game, money is going to be meaningless. Every county you have is going to be making almost 100 ducats without you even realising it.
And then you'll have vassal taxes.
That's when you can building whatever you want... But by then bonuses won't be too useful.
I already have +40 in every stat from my traits, buildings, perks and objects. Increasing the number won't change things.

So again, I fear this might be another ''Win more'' mechanic.
By the time buildings will be useful, you won't be able to build them.
By the time you can build them, they won't be useful.

The exception to this, from my experience, is getting money from the crusades and the Pope, but that feels like cheating the system.
Using the pope as a medieval ATM that gives you 1500 ducats every few years feels pretty broken.
Legendary buildings wouldn't be very legendary if you could just casually build them at the start of the game. At it currently stands, the best upgrades for the vanilla buildings we have now require innovations that take most of the game to acquire. What's the alternative to having them cost a lot of money? They grant a bonus to various stats that are big enough for them to be labelled "legendary" but they also only cost 150 gold?
 
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Unlikely but would like them to have a visual impact on the map. So can see them if built. My secret wish for the game has always been holding sprawl.
The legendary statue building was shown in the new Dev diary,so I'd assume that the others will also be visible on the map
 
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Unlikely but would like them to have a visual impact on the map. So can see them if built. My secret wish for the game has always been holding sprawl.
Just yesterday found out by zooming in when raiding near ferghana that there's winds you can see and hear flowing through the mountain pass, so wouldn't be surprised if we get minor visual holding upgrades from these buildings
 
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Idk, I'd probably start by reading all the forum posts about it. Maybe reduce MAA buffs, reduce knight effectiveness buffs, make vassals contribute MAA, and buff levies so they actually are useful beyond the first five minutes of a campaign. That's just rebalancing, rather than an actual rework.
But how does this make warfare balanced rather than have minors be unable to defeat mega blobs
 
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Yeah I would, in my opinion CK3 is in dire need of systematic improvements to warfare and religions, including crusades, holy order, head of faith and so on. Those should be a core of strategy part of these game and I fear that devs put much more focus on RP elements of this game rather than strategy.
We had these in CK2 and they weren't game changers. You spend thousands of gold to get your guy elected Pope, you have a +50 opinion bonus with him, in 10 years he dies of old age, and then you do it all again. It wasn't fun or engaging. It certainly didn't require any strategy.

I think what they're doing in Chapter 3 is going to be a far more substantive addition than just adding two buttons to press on holy orders, the church, etc. Unlanded gameplay and imperial government aren't just game changers for vanilla, either. All of the game's biggest mods can make use of these in really cool ways.
 
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I am pretty cynical to be honest. Great Works were one of my favorite things in CK2 and these "legendary buildings" look like a pale shadow of that.

Don't get me wrong, I think the DLC overall looks really solid and I already pre ordered the chapter.

But if these are meant to be the CK3 equivalent of Great Works, I'm crushed. It's one of my only significant red flags regarding the DLC this season.
 
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