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gamemaster

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Unless someone finds a workaround or makes a script extender like those for Bethesda games, that's exactly what it means. Of course, you can always edit your savegame.

Well there goes my hope of having a sex change spell for fantasy mods.
 
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I for my self do not have interest in a mod like this, but i actually would support making it possible. Just to make it possible for other peaple to have it and to stop them from demanding some non-historical same sex marriage to be implemented in the base game. (Its a history game after all)

So please Paradox make it modable! This way every one can have the game he/she likes to play.
 
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Thank you for your continued support all! I've been doing some experimenting on my own, and I'd like to show you all how things could be for modders if these hard coded checks were lifted. To do this I'll be using two tools mod makers currently can't use in their scripts: the console command pregnancy, and Cheat Engine, for flipping exactly two bits in memory.

Today Duchess Matilda is getting married to a guy named Guy:
gay_marriage_1.png

Matrilinealy of course, the Duchess is an important woman.

Currently, even if you manage to get two women in this screen (which in the base game you can't) the button to marry still won't let you click it.

But the moment the AI accepts, before the ceremony has even started, I can manually flip a single bit in memory to get:
gay_marriage_2.png

A Duchess Guy! It turns out that the only real difference between a male and a female in CK3 is a single bit in memory (1 for female, and 0 for male). When that bit is flipped in memory, the character automatically updates in-game to show a new model, gendered titles, and pronouns. Modders just aren't allowed to touch that bit in memory. They even get a ceremony:

gay_marriage_1.5.png


Now while this is well and good, Duchess Matilda still needs heirs. But while modders are not allowed to have the Duchess impregnate her wife, the independent console command for pregnancy just so happens to not have that limitation. So with a quick command of pregnancy 18255 17897 the Duchess gets her wish:
gay_marriage_3.png

And this will work as expected throughout the pregnancy. Unfortunately the game has one more hard-coded block here. Right as the baby is born, it will refuse to assign a father to them if that character is female (real_father can be female though! How does that work?). So the Duchess is going to have to put on her best chevron mustache for when the stork comes (storks are notorious bigots):
gay_marriage_4.png

And there we go:
gay_marriage_5.png

And now removing her moustache, we can see that the child has both of the mothers as parents:
gay_marriage_6.png


It even list's both as Mother in the tool-tip when you play as them. But what's this? The child isn't of Matilda's dynasty, but her wife's! That's because this marriage was matrilinial, and it was Guy who mothered the boy. It appears that normal and matrilineal marriages are already functional for same-sex parings. In matrilineal marriages the one who gives birth passes the dynasty, and in normal marriages the one who doesn't give birth does.


I hope this helps to illustrate just how practical adding in these modding features would be. Behind the blocking checks the functionality seems to already be there. It also illustrates that there doesn't seem to be a good reason for set_gender to have been removed as a modding tool. The effect is already there, just hidden from modders.
 
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Ubik Supreme

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Really hope there is some willingness to make this possible. CK3 is close to having everything, just let us have this!
 
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Sybreal

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I for my self do not have interest in a mod like this, but i actually would support making it possible. Just to make it possible for other peaple to have it and to stop them from demanding some non-historical same sex marriage to be implemented in the base game. (Its a history game after all)

So please Paradox make it modable! This way every one can have the game he/she likes to play.


Just to make it abundantly clear, and to prevent any future confusion. If Paradox magically hotfixed the game tonight with the suggested changes, absolutely nothing would happen to the base game. No bugs, no gay marriages, nothing. What would happen, is modders would be able to create mods that allow same-sex marriage and other gender-related shenanigans.

No one here is demanding anything, much less putting it into the base game. We just want to be able to create mods to do it.
 
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DaJay42

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Enable the make_pregnant = { father = target } effect to allow fathers regardless of sex (Fantasy mods exist too!)
Why stop there? Any combination of genders should be allowed here!

Other than that, I agree wholeheartedly with OP. Let modders do cool & interesting stuff!
 
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moatman15

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In support of this addition, but the screenshot got me thinking: How would the lineage be tracked with gay marriages? When you checked the matrilineal box, which house would the offspring belong to?
 
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Sybreal

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In support of this addition, but the screenshot got me thinking: How would the lineage be tracked with gay marriages? When you checked the matrilineal box, which house would the offspring belong to?

It's moot in a situation with just a same-sex marriage. Humans can't do that. A mod would have to assign the dynasty for the adopted/magically produced baby. The mechanisms would be up to the author of the mod. The base game doesn't have the functionality to handle that. The "how" of how mods can do it is secondary to being able to do it in the first place. If you're genuinely curious, you can dig through the CK2 mods that have more adult features. There are plenty, and they handle baby-making just fine.
 
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Why stop there? Any combination of genders should be allowed here!

Other than that, I agree wholeheartedly with OP. Let modders do cool & interesting stuff!
I originally declined to ask for this because I was under the impression that the gender system was more complicated and fragile than I do now. I see no reason that this should not be allowed for modders as well.

In support of this addition, but the screenshot got me thinking: How would the lineage be tracked with gay marriages? When you checked the matrilineal box, which house would the offspring belong to?
From my testing so far it appears that matrilineal is a value somewhere that is applied to the whole marriage. It seems like a child is only created as an independent entity at the moment at birth. At that moment the game assigns the one birthing as the mother, and the other parent as the father (assuming a hard-block isn't hit). It then seems to assign the dynasty of the father in a normal marriage, or the dynasty of the mother in a matrilineal marriage. In the scenario I showed off previously, due to being matrilineally married, any child Duchess Guy is pregnant with would be of Duchess Guy's house, and any child Duchess Matilda is pregnant with would be of Duchess Matilda's house. The opposite would be true in a non-matrilineal marrage.

This is just how the current hard-coded pregnancy system seems to function in this scenario. Any adoption-type system would be designed by modders, and they would have to use set_father (if modified), set_mother (if added), and set_house to make the adopted child a part of the family.
 
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Maybe not porn/anime ones, but actual historical third genders might be nice.
While this would be nice, I know from reading a lot of the game's scripting files that adding a third option besides female (1) and male (0) definitely would break the base game. I think that historical third genders are also best suited for implementation by modders once they have the right tools.
 
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I tested commenting out sex_opposite_of from the following files:

common\character_interactions\00_marriage_interactions.txt common\important_actions\00_marriage_actions.txt common\scripted_triggers\00_marriage_triggers.txt

It allows same sex concubines/consorts but not marriage or secondary spouses. It doesn't seem to be affected by sexuality so heterosexual characters can take same sex concubines/consorts. I'm sure there are more advanced ways to add checks for sexuality that I don't know about.
 
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In support of this addition, but the screenshot got me thinking: How would the lineage be tracked with gay marriages? When you checked the matrilineal box, which house would the offspring belong to?
The best way I found in CK2 was to hitchhike into the marriage/consort actions and assign a character flag to the person whose house should be inherited.
Then, you intercept the onBirth action and make sure the flagged character's dynasty is applied correctly.
Lastly, you add a trigger to the divorce/death actions to clean it up when its no longer applicable.

Generally speaking, the Mother is considered the Wife/Woman when a child is born. If it's a Matrilineal Marriage, the child will be the dynasty of whomever gave birth to it. If it's a 'normal'/Patrilineal Marriage, the inverse is true.
 
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Same sex marriages are in fact guarded against in the scripting files, usually with the sex_opposite_of effect. You can see this in common\character_interactions\00_marriage_interactions.txt . The primary guard appears to be in common\scripted_triggers\00_marriage_triggers.txt
I wasn't referring to that bit of code. In fact, it's only evaluated after secondary_recipient and secondary_actor are both chosen (but you already knew this).
I was just saying that you can't place two people of the same gender into the marriage interaction window and the check that prevents it is invisible to regular modders.
 
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From my testing so far it appears that matrilineal is a value somewhere that is applied to the whole marriage. It seems like a child is only created as an independent entity at the moment at birth. At that moment the game assigns the one birthing as the mother, and the other parent as the father (assuming a hard-block isn't hit). It then seems to assign the dynasty of the father in a normal marriage, or the dynasty of the mother in a matrilineal marriage. In the scenario I showed off previously, due to being matrilineally married, any child Duchess Guy is pregnant with would be of Duchess Guy's house, and any child Duchess Matilda is pregnant with would be of Duchess Matilda's house. The opposite would be true in a non-matrilineal marrage.

This is just how the current hard-coded pregnancy system seems to function in this scenario. Any adoption-type system would be designed by modders, and they would have to use set_father (if modified), set_mother (if added), and set_house to make the adopted child a part of the family.
Ahh, okay then. Seems that you all already have that bit accounted for ;).
 
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Unrelated but what's up with all these "respectfully disagree" votes in OP and replies?
 
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Unrelated but what's up with all these "respectfully disagree" votes in OP and replies?

That's what I'd like to know. It's not like this is a request for something to be added to the base game. It's in the modding subforum for pete's sake.
My only guess could be homophobia.

Edit: One poster, who I will not name, who "respectfully disagreed" with my earlier post supporting this also disagreed with every other post in this thread supporting this. So it's definitely homophobia.

Edit 3: Removed an earlier edit that presumed a connection between posters nationality and their "respectful disagree" votes with a connection to homophobia. It was disrespectful and rude. My apologies.
 
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WaffleIroner

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That's what I'd like to know. It's not like this is a request for something to be added to the base game. It's in the modding subforum for pete's sake.
My only guess could be homophobia.

Edit: One poster, who I will not name, who "respectfully disagreed" with my earlier post supporting this also disagreed with every other post in this thread supporting this. So it's definitely homophobia.

Edit 2: The poster who disliked my earlier post, and the poster who disliked this one, are both from Poland. Given Poland's oppressive attitudes towards LGBT people this is most certainly an expression of Polish homophobia.

Even if those are your honest suspicions, I think it would be best to refrain from insults. It is difficult to be sure of someone's opinion until they properly voice it. I would encourage anyone who disagrees with this proposal to make a comment here so I can address their concerns.
 
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SMiki Lorebringer

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Edit 2: The poster who disliked my earlier post, and the poster who disliked this one, are both from Poland. Given Poland's oppressive attitudes towards LGBT people this is most certainly an expression of Polish homophobia.
I originally put a like on your post, but by making this edit you've earned my “Respectful Disagreement”. Please, restrain from stereotyping my nation.
 
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