Magil

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I know; I wish they'd send whoever's fault it is instead.
Somehow, I don't think that's necessary. It was likely some kind of behind-the-scenes fix where the person in question didn't even think about what it would affect. We definitely don't need to drag someone out to stone them or anything. I just hope this incident helps developers and programmers realize that this is an important, and touchy, topic for people, and should be addressed sooner rather than later.
 
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I feel like this is on the modders (to make them interesting). In my mod, I made same-sex concubines give piety per month (since they were considered holy). This is the trade-off for them not being able to produce kids.

Like, we're not asking for same-sex marriage or concubines to be included in the base game, though that would be nice. I feel like it'd be enough for Paradox to allow it to be moddable, and leave it for the modders to make it worthwhile.
Holy in which religion?
 
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Why is this thread still popular?
It's a topic which a lot of players and modders are interested in and care about that just recently had a change in the possible functionality. Why wouldn't it be popular?
 
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Why not look into messing with the character creation for now? I don't know how possible it is to mix the male and female character creation sliders but seriously we have cat people, elves, and demons. Why not look into messing with character creation and using the physical trait system to create faux male and female characters. The character bellow was created in the male character creator so I know doing this is possible on paper. It would allow both gay and trans characters in appearance though the game would mis-gender characters I would say this idea seems decent until Paradox gets around to fixing the hard ban. The only issue that remains is your characters having kids if you don't want them to. The fix lies in a prevent pregnancy decision like in the vampirism and lycanthropy mod.

CK3 Feminine character in male creator.png

I think something everyone needs to keep in mind here is that Paradox is not a gestalt consciousness. Not every single person working there is always going to have this thread on their mind 100% of the time. Someone saw a bug report and fixed it because that was their job. Does it suck? Sure, but if they were somehow malicious towards the LGBT community they would not have bothered with a sexuality system at all.
 
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Why is this thread still popular? Still getting agrees and disagrees just makes me want to delete my original posts
In a general sense, it's still popular because Paradox hasn't done anything to address the initial concerns -- we're still no closer to being able to mod in gay marriages than we were at the game's launch.

In a specific sense, the thread is popular right at this moment because the patch Paradox released yesterday is a major step backwards when it comes to these concerns -- now both same-sex marriage and same-sex concubinage are hardcoded as off-limits to modders. That's got a lot of people paying attention to the issue again, and speaking out about how unhappy they are about it.
 
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In a general sense, it's still popular because Paradox hasn't done anything to address the initial concerns -- we're still no closer to being able to mod in gay marriages than we were at the game's launch.

In a specific sense, the thread is popular right at this moment because the patch Paradox released yesterday is a major step backwards when it comes to these concerns -- now both same-sex marriage and same-sex concubinage are hardcoded as off-limits to modders. That's got a lot of people paying attention to the issue again, and speaking out about how unhappy they are about it.
Have we seen any male male concubine bugs in recent patches that they couldn't figure out how to solve besides doing that?
 

pengoyo

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Holy in which religion?
Don't know about the person you responded to, but for me the idea is that if you can make custom religions with things like cannibalism or lies being sacred (both not used by any in game faith), one where Homosexuality is celebrated is in the realm of possibilities. At least in my mod, no in game faith started with the doctrine, so it existed to give the player more options when creating new religions.

Also while the Assyrian's are definitely way outside the time frame, they believed male-male intercourse gave good fortune (though as life is complicated, they also had limits of who could have gay sex with who). So there is precessidence for the idea of religiously modivated gay sex occurring to at least one group (they even have special prostitutes for this purpose).

Plus there are still fantasy mods which are definitely not bound by historical possibilities.
 
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Don't know about the person you responded to, but for me the idea is that if you can make custom religions with things like cannibalism or lies being sacred (both not used by any in game faith), one where Homosexuality is celebrated is in the realm of possibilities. At least in my mod, no in game faith started with the doctrine, so it existed to give the player more options when creating new religions.

Also while the Assyrian's are definitely way outside the time frame, they believed male-male intercourse gave good fortune (though as life is complicated, they also had limits of who could have gay sex with who). So there is precessidence for the idea of religiously modivated gay sex occurring to at least one group (they even have special prostitutes for this purpose).

Plus there are still fantasy mods which are definitely not bound by historical possibilities.
Eh zoros got incest buffs when it was only meant for the elites leaving to a lopsided view of zoros in modern day. Were the example assyrians temple prostitutes? Cuz I know Greeks had that. For women
 

Magil

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Eh zoros got incest buffs when it was only meant for the elites leaving to a lopsided view of zoros in modern day. Were the example assyrians temple prostitutes? Cuz I know Greeks had that. For women
In my mod at least, I wasn't concerned with historical accuracy. It was part of a tenet that a faith could adopt, though no faiths began the game with the tenet. The same tenet that unlocked same-sex concubines also made them generate piety.
 
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Have we seen any male male concubine bugs in recent patches that they couldn't figure out how to solve besides doing that?
Not as far as I know. I'm not deep into the modding scene, but I'd heard of people making same-sex concubinage mods, and hadn't heard of them having any major trouble.

There were some changes to the concubinage system with this patch, but nothing that should have required out-and-out hardcoding same-sex concubines as utterly forbidden, as far as I can tell.
 
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Have we seen any male male concubine bugs in recent patches that they couldn't figure out how to solve besides doing that?
Keep in mind the hard coding could also have been used to resolve a bug that was created due to the new offer concubines interaction, and thus the bug was fixed the problem before we the players ever saw it.

Eh zoros got incest buffs when it was only meant for the elites leaving to a lopsided view of zoros in modern day. Were the example assyrians temple prostitutes? Cuz I know Greeks had that. For women
So the Assyrians allowed homosexual relations/sex in two instances it seems (at least for men, for women it's less clear), between those of equal social status (as long as they weren't currently on a military campaign) or with a temple prostitute.
 
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In my mod at least, I wasn't concerned with historical accuracy. It was part of a tenet that a faith could adopt, though no faiths began the game with the tenet. The same tenet that unlocked same-sex concubines also made them generate piety.
Fairs
Keep in mind the hard coding could also have been used to resolve a bug that was created due to the new offer concubines interaction, and thus the bug was fixed the problem before we the players ever saw it.


So the Assyrians allowed homosexual relations/sex in two instances it seems (at least for men, for women it's less clear), between those of equal social status (as long as they weren't currently on a military campaign) or with a temple prostitute.
Yeah I meant as in in vanilla ck3 there were some concubine bugs noticed so they hardcoded it to stop the bugs happening
 

Assassin739

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I second this. I want a samesex marriage option. It's kind of silly you can create a new faith that allows it, but can't actually find partners/concubines of the same gender.
Many cultures accepted same sex relations but had no notion of actual marriage between two of the same sex. Marriage is for reproduction during this time period.

Sorry if already said, don't have time to read 20 pages of comments
 
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Many cultures accepted same sex relations but had no notion of actual marriage between two of the same sex. Marriage is for reproduction during this time period.

Sorry if already said, don't have time to read 20 pages of comments
I agree no in game faith should have same-sex marriage, but it's within the scope of what a tenet or doctrine could add. This is because we already have tenets that aren't used by any in game faiths. For instance one can make a religion where lies are considered sacred. As far as I know, no society has ever done that so it's even more out there than same-sex marriage. But I wouldn't say the sacred lies doctrine (and others like it) should be removed from the game as it just gives the player more options when creating their new faith. The same would be true for same-sex marriage. It could be added to the game as an option for players when creating a new faith.

Now since same-sex marriage doesn't align with the whole dynastic approach that Paradox is going for with CK3, I'm not going to hold my breath for them to include it. And that's fine, they have a vision for their game. So I personally just want the ability to mod it in myself.

But I still think that a religion allowing same-sex marriage, from a plausibility stand point, is no more out there than some of the custom religions you can already create in game.

edit: grammar and clarity
 
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Thout_Jurai

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I think I found a way, an emergency solution. I found it, i´m not the creator.
With Cheat engine, "tfigment" creat a table what has the possibility to change the gender in game. I test it with gay marriade.
I set the male to female marriege him(or her) and change the back, this can be dangerous by creating bugs ingame and crashs.
But to the modder maybe it's possible to create a mod that do this job istat of cheatengine, as an emergency solution.

PS: English is not my native language, sorry.
 
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Thomas_Oak

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I appreciate the apology, and honestly no hard feelings.
This is an important and personal topic for a lot of people and I get that shooting me as the messenger when I come without the desired answer is easy to do when people are frustrated!

I am gonna try and head off to sleep now since it is midnight and I do have work tomorrow, I’ll check on this thread tomorrow morning though I doubt I will have much else to add than what I’ve already said. We do see you and the frustration, I can’t promise a fix for X given date but it is something we are definitely aware of and do want to change once we get the time.
I would like you to know how incredibly sad this patch made me. I have worked in same-sex concubinage into my modding over the last three months and with this block on its possibility it has effectively trashed the lot. Events, religions, cultures.... over 330 event background pictures etc etc. The thought of reworking the mods to accommodate the changes is probably too daunting to consider.

I would be extremely grateful if you could give any indication about whether at some point in the middle future it will be possible again so that I can know whether to continue with my modding project or to scrap it.

Alternatively is it possible to reinstall the pre-patch version of the game. I would prefer to not use my pre-purchased DLCs rather than my mods.
 
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pengoyo

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Aternatively is it possible to reinstall the pre-patch version of the game. I would prefer to not use my pre-purchased DLCs rather than my mods.
You can roll back your version of the game.

If you have steam, you can right click the game in the steam library. Go to properties and then betas. In betas you can select which version of the game you want steam to load onto your computer.
 
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curtwine

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This post is just to add another voice to the conversation in case Paradox developers continue to monitor this thread. I am one of the players who has been using a well-designed mod which allowed same sex concubines. I have played about 400 years in game with this mod and did not notice any apparent bugs associated with that particular feature (of course I recognize that there could be bugs occurring that are not obvious in my play-through). I understand that a same-sex marriage capability was hard-coded out of the game from the outset and that changing that might require a lot of revision at this point. So I am content to wait and see if this ever makes it into the game. However, I have to agree with others who have expressed frustration and surprise at the decision to actually remove the possibility of same sex concubines - a capability that modders were already experimenting with successfully. As someone stated above, all mods have the potential to destabilize and possibly break the game, but that is the very nature of modding. Paradox has made it possible to mod many aspects of the game, most of which probably create the risk of unintended bugs in modded games. So why remove this one particular capability through hard coding? I am not a coder so I may not understand the technical aspects, but it seems like this would only cause problems in a modded game, not the base game. In any case, I am glad that blackninja9939 at least responded and indicated that the development team will look into this and possibly correct it in the future. I do want this feature in the game and I strongly support the ability of modders to have the freedom and the tools to explore more same sex game narratives and events. Thanks for listening!
 
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Penguin Zero

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Honestly, the more I think about this situation, the more irate I get about it. Maybe it's just because I'm getting old, or maybe it's exposure to the political climate of the past few years, but I find I have zero patience for this kind of social regression any more.

As others have said, Paradox has burned a lot of trust here. It took them six months from the launch of this thread to making any kind of formal recognition of it, aside from a vague hand-wavy 'we're aware of the issue' in a completely different thread that didn't commit them to anything. And even now, the formal recognition has said, basically, 'yeah, we'd like to do something about it, maybe, at some undefined point in the future. No promises. It's lower priority than a lot of other stuff. In the meantime, we've prevented you from doing even an approximation of it because it helps our bug reports.' That's just not acceptable to me these days.

To try to be a little more constructive, I thought I'd lay out what would be sufficient to get me back to playing the game and buying Paradox products. The bare minimum: remove the hardcoding on both same-sex concubinage and same-sex marriage, and issue a formal statement explaining why they felt it was necessary and what their plans are from here on the matter. Just going back to the status quo isn't enough for me any more, not after being burned this way. Once that's done, I'd evaluate the statement to see if I could reasonably support CK3 in the future, and definitely go back to buying DLC from other branches of the company (such as Stellaris: Nemesis).

What would guarantee my return: actually implementing same-sex marriage and concubinage in the game without need for mods. There have been multiple decent suggestions on how to do that in this thread already; I won't bother repeating them. As long as it was possible to somehow enable them in the game, be it by a game rule, a religious doctrine, a decision, or something else, I'd be satisfied.

Until something approximating the above happens, Paradox has lost me as a customer. I know one person is just a drop in the bucket, and I don't really have any illusions that anyone there is going to care about me doing this, but I have to do what I feel is right.
 
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