Or the Ork race in the Warhammer Fantasy mod (if they move it to CK3), They're fungus so they don't reproduce in the normal way. Or the ability to make new government types like a playable form of republic.
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Legalize Gay Modding!
- Thread starter WaffleIroner
- Start date
-
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Or the Ork race in the Warhammer Fantasy mod (if they move it to CK3), They're fungus so they don't reproduce in the normal way. Or the ability to make new government types like a playable form of republic.
Adding in my voice in support of allowing same-sex marriage and same-sex adoption. As many others have said, objections about it being "ahistorical" for a variety of reasons. First, it's simply wrong. Adoption has an extraordinarily long history, reaching back until at least the Roman Republic. More recently, American Revolutionary War hero, and openly gay man, Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben famously adopted two of his lovers so that they could inherit from him. Similarly, same-sex marriage has a long history, also reaching back to the Roman Republic, and was practiced in a variety of cultures outside of Europe.
Second, there are already dozens of aspects of the game that are ahistorical. The game allows you to create an entirely new religion! You can make 75% of the world population gay or bi or asexual. You can use actually win the Crusades as a Catholic ruler. You can restore the Roman Empire. You can convert the Byzantine Empire to Judaism. In CK2, you could make the Pope a horse (not sure if that's still possible in this one). The list goes on and on.
Anyway, it feels distinctly odd that there are all these options relating to queer people, including making them more common and the ability to have your religion accept homosexuality, only to then make sexuality basically irrelevant in the base game--e.g., I had to download a mod to get same-sex concubines/consorts, and there's no way at all for me to do gay marriages.
Fix this!
Second, there are already dozens of aspects of the game that are ahistorical. The game allows you to create an entirely new religion! You can make 75% of the world population gay or bi or asexual. You can use actually win the Crusades as a Catholic ruler. You can restore the Roman Empire. You can convert the Byzantine Empire to Judaism. In CK2, you could make the Pope a horse (not sure if that's still possible in this one). The list goes on and on.
Anyway, it feels distinctly odd that there are all these options relating to queer people, including making them more common and the ability to have your religion accept homosexuality, only to then make sexuality basically irrelevant in the base game--e.g., I had to download a mod to get same-sex concubines/consorts, and there's no way at all for me to do gay marriages.
Fix this!
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Yeah I have a few plans in my long-distance projet pipe to make a total conversion mod for my homebrew / worldbuilding endeavours; and there's a fair few species in my setting that don't reproduce like humans do (as well as magics that would make gay and trans reproduction possible). Being able to edit these values is simply beneficial to everyone!
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The intention is that these changes would not affect the base game at all. If you are referring to any mods that would be built with these tools, their difficulty would be dependent on whomever is creating them.
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The ahistorical and lore-breaking excuses are also invalid because this is all for modding anyway. There is already a mod on the Workshop to give yourself a trait with 100 in all stats, and that is pretty tame compared to all the wacky stuff there was in CK2. Regardless, the only argument you really need against that would be: "It's going to be for modding. If you don't want it in your game, don't download them."
This isn't just to make mods that simply allow same-sex marriages and concubinage. Though, that is one use of it. And as Waffle said, the difficulty of propagating the dynasty is up to the modder. They could add adoption mechanics, magic babies, more... fantastical means of procreation, etc...
These scripts also free up the ability for "procreation" in fantasy species. For example as mentioned in the previous page, vampires in the Princes of Darkness mod. Depending on the lore for vampirism, vampires are technically dead so they cant have children the old-fashioned way. Their heirs are usually picked by them.
Another example would be the one I mentioned at the top of this page: Orks from the Warhammer Fantasy universe. They're essentially sentient fungus. All they really care about is fighting, so realistically there isn't a whole lot of "dynasty" building. Just whoever is the biggest and baddest Ork usually leads the rest.
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Is it even necessary to have a code about assigning father/mother to portray adoption? What does the code about disinheriting someone do? Or the bastard legitimization? Isn't there anythign that can't be used? Just curios here.
Pretty much.
Disinheriting does this:
Code:
disinherit_interaction = {
category = interaction_category_hostile
interface_priority = 60
desc = disinherit_interaction_desc
is_shown = {
NOT = { scope:recipient = scope:actor }
scope:actor.faith = scope:recipient.faith
scope:actor = {
is_dynast = yes
dynasty = scope:recipient.dynasty
}
scope:recipient = {
NOT = {
has_trait = disinherited
}
}
}
is_valid_showing_failures_only = {
scope:actor.dynasty = {
dynasty_prestige >= medium_dynasty_prestige_value
}
scope:recipient = { is_diplomatically_available = yes }
scope:recipient = { NOT = { has_strong_hook = scope:actor } }
custom_description = {
scope:recipient.top_liege = scope:actor.top_liege
text = "same_realm_as"
}
}
on_auto_accept = {
scope:recipient = {
trigger_event = char_interaction.0020
}
}
on_accept = {
scope:actor = {
stress_impact = {
forgiving = minor_stress_impact_gain
compassionate = minor_stress_impact_gain
}
hidden_effect = {
send_interface_toast = {
title = disinherit_interaction_notification
left_icon = scope:actor
right_icon = scope:recipient
scope:recipient = {
show_as_tooltip = {
disinherit_effect = yes
}
}
}
}
}
scope:recipient = {
disinherit_effect = yes
}
}
cost = {
renown = {
value = {
add = medium_dynasty_prestige_value
if = {
limit = {
scope:recipient = {
is_landed = yes
}
}
add = major_dynasty_prestige_value
}
if = {
limit = {
scope:recipient = {
is_landed = no
any_heir_title = {
exists = holder
}
}
}
add = medium_dynasty_prestige_value
}
}
}
prestige = {
value = {
add = major_dynasty_prestige_value
if = {
limit = {
scope:recipient = {
is_landed = yes
}
}
add = massive_prestige_value
}
if = {
limit = {
scope:recipient = {
is_landed = no
any_heir_title = {
exists = holder
}
}
}
add = major_dynasty_prestige_value
}
}
}
}
auto_accept = yes
ai_potential = {
is_at_war = no
NOT = {
has_trait = forgiving
}
}
ai_targets = {
ai_recipients = dynasty
max = 20
}
ai_frequency = 96
ai_will_do = {
base = 0
modifier = {
add = 100
scope:recipient = {
OR = {
has_relation_rival = scope:actor
has_relation_nemesis = scope:actor
}
}
}
modifier = {
add = 100
scope:recipient = {
is_primary_heir_of = scope:actor
OR = {
has_trait = inbred
has_trait = intellect_bad_3
has_trait = incapable
}
}
}
modifier = {
add = 5
ai_vengefulness >= medium_positive_ai_value
scope:recipient = {
is_heir_of = scope:actor
}
OR = {
AND = {
scope:recipient = {
has_trait = incestuous
}
NOT = { is_incestuous_trigger = yes }
trait_is_criminal_in_faith_trigger = { TRAIT = incestuous FAITH = scope:actor.faith GENDER_CHARACTER = scope:recipient }
}
AND = {
scope:recipient = {
has_trait = kinslayer
}
NOT = { has_trait = kinslayer }
}
AND = {
scope:recipient = {
has_trait = adulterer
}
NOR = {
has_trait = adulterer
has_trait = fornicator
}
trait_is_criminal_in_faith_trigger = { TRAIT = adulterer FAITH = scope:actor.faith GENDER_CHARACTER = scope:recipient }
}
AND = {
scope:recipient = {
has_trait = fornicator
}
NOR = {
has_trait = adulterer
has_trait = fornicator
}
trait_is_criminal_in_faith_trigger = { TRAIT = fornicator FAITH = scope:actor.faith GENDER_CHARACTER = scope:recipient }
}
AND = {
scope:recipient = {
has_trait = deviant
}
NOT = {
is_deviant_trigger = yes
}
trait_is_criminal_in_faith_trigger = { TRAIT = deviant FAITH = scope:actor.faith GENDER_CHARACTER = scope:recipient }
}
AND = {
scope:recipient = {
has_trait = witch
}
NOT = {
is_witch_trigger = yes
}
trait_is_criminal_in_faith_trigger = { TRAIT = witch FAITH = scope:actor.faith GENDER_CHARACTER = scope:recipient }
}
AND = {
scope:recipient = {
has_trait = sodomite
}
NOR = {
has_trait = sodomite
any_secret = {
secret_type = secret_homosexual
}
}
trait_is_criminal_in_faith_trigger = { TRAIT = sodomite FAITH = scope:actor.faith GENDER_CHARACTER = scope:recipient }
}
AND = {
scope:recipient = {
has_trait = cannibal
}
NOT = {
is_cannibal_trigger = yes
}
trait_is_criminal_in_faith_trigger = { TRAIT = cannibal FAITH = scope:actor.faith GENDER_CHARACTER = scope:recipient }
}
}
}
modifier = {
factor = 0
scope:recipient = {
OR = {
has_relation_friend = scope:actor
has_relation_best_friend = scope:actor
}
}
}
modifier = {
factor = 0
scope:recipient = {
is_ai = no
}
}
}
}Legitimization does this:
Code:
dynast_legitimize_bastard_interaction = {
category = interaction_category_diplomacy
desc = dynast_legitimize_bastard_interaction_desc
is_shown = {
scope:actor = scope:recipient.dynasty.dynast
scope:actor = {
religion = scope:recipient.religion
NOT = { house = scope:recipient.house }
faith = { has_doctrine_parameter = bastards_legitimize }
}
scope:recipient = {
has_trait = bastard
faith = { has_doctrine_parameter = bastards_legitimize }
}
}
is_valid = {
scope:actor.dynasty = {
dynasty_prestige >= medium_dynasty_prestige_value
}
scope:recipient = { is_diplomatically_available = yes }
}
auto_accept = yes
on_accept = {
scope:actor.dynasty = {
add_dynasty_prestige = medium_dynasty_prestige_loss
}
scope:actor = {
stress_impact = {
arrogant = minor_stress_impact_gain
}
send_interface_message = {
type = event_generic_neutral
title = dynast_legitimize_bastard_interaction_notification
right_icon = scope:recipient
show_as_tooltip = {
scope:recipient = {
add_trait_force_tooltip = legitimized_bastard
add_opinion = {
target = scope:actor
modifier = legitimized_me_opinion
}
}
}
}
}
hidden_effect = {
scope:recipient = {
trigger_event = bastard_interaction.0009
every_parent = {
limit = {
is_landed = yes
NOT = { this = scope:actor }
}
hidden_effect = { #Nudge towards friendship
if = {
limit = {
NOR = {
has_relation_friend = scope:actor
has_relation_potential_friend = scope:actor
}
}
set_relation_potential_friend = scope:actor
}
}
trigger_event = bastard_interaction.0010
}
every_sibling = {
limit = {
is_landed = yes
NOT = { this = scope:actor }
}
trigger_event = bastard_interaction.0010
}
}
}
}
}All of this is in plaintext in the game folder. You can find them in various locations starting in \steamapps\common\Crusader Kings III\game\ assuming you purchased the game through steam. I also recommend a more advanced text editor than notepad. Notepad++ is awesome. And some sort of GREP tool helps. I use PowerGREP. This tool lets you search for things like phrases, which gets you to a starting point. Then you can go down the rabbit hole and figure out what every little bit does.
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This would also help for some kind of modern day/futuristic mod. Like that one CK2 mod where it's set in space.
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It would. I've mentioned Crisis of the Confederation a few times already. Though they stopped development of it in CK2 and I don't think we'll see it in CK3 because Stellaris is a thing now. But I'd love to see another space total conversion mod. CK3 might even handle it better than Stellaris because it won't have to calculate what thousands of pops are doing in the late game.
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Ah, right, right ok. A new Dune is coming out though so maybe the idea of Medieval Space Houses will be revived, also this company published a Battletech game.
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I like how many dislikes/disagrees there are within the first pages of this thread... Really shows you the colors of a lot of people here .
I totally agree on this! Anything that allows the game to be more mod-able is a plus for me. Why shouldn't I be able to marry my own same-sex concubine if I'm a bad-ass, 100-dread, tough king? Who's gonna stop me, some old wrinkly dude who says he's God on Earth? Pshhh... If the old Roman Emperors could do it, I say let us mod that feature in.
.I totally agree on this! Anything that allows the game to be more mod-able is a plus for me. Why shouldn't I be able to marry my own same-sex concubine if I'm a bad-ass, 100-dread, tough king? Who's gonna stop me, some old wrinkly dude who says he's God on Earth? Pshhh... If the old Roman Emperors could do it, I say let us mod that feature in.
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I would also like to advocating changing CK3 to allow gay marriages, in modding, at minimum.
I do not think it would even be especially reasonable if the base game included gay marriage. This may not be historically accurate for the time period, but I think it could make sense for player-created religions. If I create a religion featuring both the gender equality doctrine, and which is accepting of same-sex relations, I think it could make sense in context to permit same-sex marriage in that religion. If a gay man creates the empire of Scandanavia via force, and then reforms the Asatru faith, and becomes its High Priest who, exactly, is going to stop him from marrying his lover?
It is possible in CK3's base game to create a religion which allows, or even encourages rulers to marry four of their own daughters, while it is not possible to create a religion which allows a man to marry another man, or a woman to marry another woman. As far as I am aware, neither possibility is especially accurate for any offshoot of Christianity within the time period. I do not see why historical realism should prevent the creation of an offshoot of Christianity (or another religion) which does permit same-sex marriages. If I am permitted to look to more recent times in history, several currently extant Christian sects permit gay marriage. To the best of my knowledge, no Christian sect currently, or previously existing permits plural father-daughter marriages.
I was excited to see CK3 normalizing non-heterosexual characters in the medieval time period, even asexual people (almost never represented in video games). I think it is disappointing that CK3 is also designed to restrict the possibilities of permitting gay marriage in actual game, only allowing unofficial affairs. While I appreciate that Paradox games depict historical situations, I always thought the entertainment value of Paradox games was in that they allowed the depiction of alternative histories, even some alternative possibilities that would be implausible in the real world, such as re-creating the Western Roman Empire, along with re-instating Hellenism as its state religion, in the year 1300.
I have a less strong opinion on the issue of implementing same-sex pregnancies in CK3, and I see no real rationale for it in the base game. However, I am aware that people clearly desired it in modded CK2, and I feel that CK3 should permit same-sex pregnancies in mods as well.
I would also like to see the return of the set_gender command from CK2, especially as the game lacks a character creator. I think it would be interesting to allow people to explore playing as say, Queen Louisa the second, of Italy. It would help add variety to the initially playable characters.
It would be interesting to also add a command to set sexual orientation. I was excited to get a chance to play as an asexual character in CK3, because I almost never see asexual people, like myself, represented in video games.
In 867, there are, a total of 6 Asexual top-level characters (browsing vassals in the map at the start of the game is hard), according to my best attempt to examine the entire map (it is not possible to use the character finder to search by sexual orientation). Of these, the most powerful is the Duke of Nepal, with the other 5 independent asexuals being counts. Interestingly, none of them follow an Abrahamic faith. Introducing a command to set sexual orientation would allow people to more easily explore the implications that a ruler's sexuality may have on the game, in a variety of settings.
In general, it is disappointing to see that there are any aspects of CK3, as a game, which are more restrictive on queer experiences in the game than in CK2, even in mods which change large aspects of the gameplay. I was excited to see that CK3 intended to be more inclusive of queer perspectives, and it is a let down to find out that it restricts the potential to queer the game via modding.
I do not think it would even be especially reasonable if the base game included gay marriage. This may not be historically accurate for the time period, but I think it could make sense for player-created religions. If I create a religion featuring both the gender equality doctrine, and which is accepting of same-sex relations, I think it could make sense in context to permit same-sex marriage in that religion. If a gay man creates the empire of Scandanavia via force, and then reforms the Asatru faith, and becomes its High Priest who, exactly, is going to stop him from marrying his lover?
It is possible in CK3's base game to create a religion which allows, or even encourages rulers to marry four of their own daughters, while it is not possible to create a religion which allows a man to marry another man, or a woman to marry another woman. As far as I am aware, neither possibility is especially accurate for any offshoot of Christianity within the time period. I do not see why historical realism should prevent the creation of an offshoot of Christianity (or another religion) which does permit same-sex marriages. If I am permitted to look to more recent times in history, several currently extant Christian sects permit gay marriage. To the best of my knowledge, no Christian sect currently, or previously existing permits plural father-daughter marriages.
I was excited to see CK3 normalizing non-heterosexual characters in the medieval time period, even asexual people (almost never represented in video games). I think it is disappointing that CK3 is also designed to restrict the possibilities of permitting gay marriage in actual game, only allowing unofficial affairs. While I appreciate that Paradox games depict historical situations, I always thought the entertainment value of Paradox games was in that they allowed the depiction of alternative histories, even some alternative possibilities that would be implausible in the real world, such as re-creating the Western Roman Empire, along with re-instating Hellenism as its state religion, in the year 1300.
I have a less strong opinion on the issue of implementing same-sex pregnancies in CK3, and I see no real rationale for it in the base game. However, I am aware that people clearly desired it in modded CK2, and I feel that CK3 should permit same-sex pregnancies in mods as well.
I would also like to see the return of the set_gender command from CK2, especially as the game lacks a character creator. I think it would be interesting to allow people to explore playing as say, Queen Louisa the second, of Italy. It would help add variety to the initially playable characters.
It would be interesting to also add a command to set sexual orientation. I was excited to get a chance to play as an asexual character in CK3, because I almost never see asexual people, like myself, represented in video games.
In 867, there are, a total of 6 Asexual top-level characters (browsing vassals in the map at the start of the game is hard), according to my best attempt to examine the entire map (it is not possible to use the character finder to search by sexual orientation). Of these, the most powerful is the Duke of Nepal, with the other 5 independent asexuals being counts. Interestingly, none of them follow an Abrahamic faith. Introducing a command to set sexual orientation would allow people to more easily explore the implications that a ruler's sexuality may have on the game, in a variety of settings.
In general, it is disappointing to see that there are any aspects of CK3, as a game, which are more restrictive on queer experiences in the game than in CK2, even in mods which change large aspects of the gameplay. I was excited to see that CK3 intended to be more inclusive of queer perspectives, and it is a let down to find out that it restricts the potential to queer the game via modding.
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Also note that one of the most requested time periods is antiquity to early medieval which had adoption in spades. Julius Caesar himself adopted Octavian in his will. The Code of Hammurabi details the duties and rights of adoptees and adopters. And if someone makes a mod for Japan its going to have feature adult adoption as well.
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RE: gender I think content exploring gender roles and identities in medieval times would be extremely interesting be it official from PDX or modded.
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And Paradox should expand on wards and tutors, it was so very common to have the court of a powerful monarch full of foreign children and nobles in training, and they often were more than mere "wards," but full on foster sons and daughters. Take Athelstan, first King of England for example, he fostered a future king of France, of Norway, a Great Duke of Brittany, and there was another but I forgot who it was. They were basically his children, and came to support each other as they grew and moved unto their inheritance/claims. Athelstan helped all three of them either keep their throne or regain it.
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I don't really even plan on using this feature, but I still support it. It is mystifying that some people are so dead-set against this. If the situation were reversed, and gay marriage was hard-coded to be possible, I'm sure some of the same people who believe this isn't worth development time would now be demanding a way to mod it out.
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This should definitely be allowed with mods. Honestly it's disappointing you can't in the base game depending on your religion and culture, and I'm hoping a future update/dlc changes the way marriage works to be less eurocentric
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You guys realize these are arranged marriages right? There's nothing glorious about these, they're just meant for alliances and children. All you would be doing in this mod is forcing probably straight people to marry other probably straight people of the same gender, which is funny I guess but it's kinda lame that this thread has more discussion than mods like Kingdoms in Exile or literally any of the other mods on this forum.
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They're video game entities, not real people. There's no "forcing"of straight people to marry other straight people of the same gender. And no, it's not lame that this thread has such a large amount of discussion. Plenty of lgbt gamers, myself included, would like to be able to see ourselves more fully in CK3. Hence why this thread exists. Just because it doesn't interest you doesn't make it lame.
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