♥ Customer Support Specialist ♥
- Mar 4, 2019
Stay on topic, stay kind.
The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.
As with all those errors they exist so we can catch bugs in the base game, same sex concubines likely did not actually work and had bugs and the requirement was just not being explicitly checked in that effect despite being needed in the game. So someone on a bug fixing pass when fixing an issue related to that likely added that requirement in explicitly to aid with fixing our bugs tickets.Thanks for the reply.
While I understand that is not high on the priority, someone added new code to specifically block concubine/consort of same gender in 1.3.0. Reverting to before 1.3.0, this code was not present, so I don't know how to feel about this.
You’re twisting my words there quite a bit, nobody is saying that representation isn’t important or that LGBT people aren’t either.Just want to add my voice here.
This whole situation has burned up years of goodwill that Paradox had built up with me up until this point in just months, in a way I'd never in my dreams have thought possible.
I work in backend tech at a video game developer in Dundee myself and I've had it playing in the back of my mind for a while now to maybe apply to Paradox and move to Stockholm as a sort of unlikely pipe dream scenario. Especially with how bitter a pill to swallow Brexit has been as an EU citizen living in the UK. I guess the last few years just keep on being filled with disappointment.
I honestly had so much respect and admiration for Paradox going into CK3. I've always raved about how good their games are to anyone who would listen and probably bored several people half to death with in-depth play-by-plays of the various empires and roleplay scenarios I've really gotten carried away with in Stellaris. I read every single Dev Diary each week leading up to CK3 and was honestly so freaking excited, like I can't really remember being that hyped about anything since a few years ago when I got my first car. I'm not even exaggerating.
But this has just left such an ugly taste in my mouth.
Stories are important. Stories are powerful. Stories matter. We imitate them and learn from them and are shaped by them. They are a reflection of the world, and conversely, human behaviour often changes to resemble them back.
This is why representation is so important for queer people in media. In a world without meaningful LGBT representation the message that you're sending to some poor closeted teen in a small intolerant town is that they're completely alone. That they aren't important. That they don't matter enough to tell stories about.
When someone struggling with their identity gets ahold of a role-playing game it often helps them figure things out. I've honestly seen more posts than I'd have expected from other queer people on social media mentioning how games like the Sims were one of their few outlets to express their sexuality or gender identity when they were still in the closet.
Imagine discovering an honestly awesome game like CK3, with almost endless roleplay possibilities, only to find you can't even marry a same-sex partner. You can set up a cannibal cult and an empire with institutionalized incest, but marrying your character's literal same-sex romantic partner is arbitrarily off-limits. It just feels... terrible. I imagine it would feel even worse if you're unlucky enough to live in a regressive country that doesn't afford you that same right in your own life.
When I realized I couldn't marry a same-sex partner in the base game I immediately started looking into making a mod for it myself, and then I basically just went through several stages of disbelief, frustration, and dissapointment when I realized it wasn't possible at all.
And I just feel let down by you now, Paradox. It's probably a little irrational, but it's honestly how I feel. It has literally even soured my enjoyment of Stellaris (my all-time favourite game) by association.
I wish I could just not take it personally, but my life experiences are full of self-righteous cis straight people hurting me in ways they claimed weren't personal for my intrinsic characteristics. Queer people getting the short end of the stick once again in a thousand tiny ways shouldn't really come as much of a surprise, only it actually does hurt this time because I really didn't expect it coming from you.
I wasn't really going anywhere with this. Just venting. I'm going to stop playing CK3 for a while. I'll maybe check back in a year to see if anything's changed. Thank you for at least providing an answer, even if "you're not a high priority" wasn't what I wanted to hear.
We don’t write a patch note for every single line of code we change, I’d assume that this change was done and it was not thought anything was using this script like this since base game content certainly was not.If you really like 'open communication', then why not communicate it before hand?
There is no mention of this change in the patch notes or anywhere else.
Really, it could have been very easily avoided by just being actually open about it.
In general communication around CK3 is a bit lackluster. The game in itself is amazing, the content is of very high quality, and there is obviously a huge amount of love and care that went into it. Which makes the issues in and around the game so glaring.
It feels like you (a general you, not you in particular) aren't very confident in your work?
Like, it's almost midnight here in France, so it must be very late in Sweden, and yet as you've said you're here to discuss about it. So you obviously care. So there is some kind of dissonance in communication that is kind of awkward? I don't know if I make myself very clear, sorry.
I appreciate the apology, and honestly no hard feelings.I've reread my post and I just want to apologize. It's an extremely personal topic and it's easy to get emotional. I for sure went too far. No excuses. And I just really want to stress that I'm sincerely grateful you chose to post in this thread tonight. Thank you.
Just to be clear, I don't think anyone here truly believes that you guys are anything other than well-meaning. It's just that for queer people it's a common lived experience to 'fall through the cracks', so to speak, in many video games. Same-sex love-interests often get cut in RPGs due to time constraints (in the best case, sometimes its due to censorship in a foreign market), or have less work put into them than their counterparts, or there are simply far less options. I assume something like this is what happened here on account of the realities of corporate budgets, deadlines, etc.
That's basically what was eating at me. Again though, I'm sorry for the way I brought it across.
It was never our intention or direct goal to disable the feature. It was just a code by-product of a technical and unrelated issue that needed correcting. It has certainly caused some concern, but we are getting there!Delightful! I have to ask though, if you don't mind sharing, what issues came up that caused you to disable same-sex concubines in the first place?
Regardless, this is great news, thanks for finally getting back to us with a dev comment!
Correct. Discussion of any ToS violations or Mod conversation is against the rules to help protect EVERYONE'S privacy. It may seem harsh or strict but it is definitely in place for a good and helpful reason.Before engaging with the response, I wanted to mention a policy clarification I received from the moderators that might help avoid future messiness: apparently, discussing moderator actions is against the ToS. The proper action in such case is to contact the moderator who did it via PM, or, if you can't figure that out (since moderators here do not generally announce or give attribution of their actions), any moderator currently online (visible in the sidebar). I will not be posting any opinions about this policy publicly, though I do intend to raise a few matters privately with the moderators after this.
In any case, I want to thank @PDX_Pariah for finally getting an official statement out on the matter. It may not have been everything I hoped for, but it's better than silence, and indicates some progress is being made.
Edited for clarification of the ToS - Had a dad
Very interesting for sure, but for better visibility, posting elsewhere will get more attention and better results!Something else on a separate but related note to this topic (honestly I should probably start a separate thread) that might be interesting is generally looser gender rules. From the Femminiello of southern Italy, to the Mukhannathun of Arabia, to the Hijra of India, there are several examples of people in the time period not conforming to the gender binary, and I think it might be interesting to implement or at least provide the tools to do so more easily.
That is what happens when people cannot be civil and follow the rules.Technically more than 26 pages, since I think at least three to four pages of posts were deleted.
The timeline has not changed in any way and certainly not because of this. We are still committed to bringing you the best and most inclusive content that we can at all time!Paradox:
Just focus on making a great game and not all of this noise. Sorry people from your company were treated poorly, just isn't cool. Hopefully this doesn't change the timelines of any of the DLC or patches coming down the pike, they should be the main priority.
Certainly not ALL the posts were from people being uncivil, but a majority of them were.I'd call that at best a mischaracterization of most of the deleted posts, but since getting into a discussion about it would violate the rules, I'll leave it at that. I am, however, bringing up some concerns I have with the moderators and admins in PMs.