Leaving out Finland is a joke.

[krios41]

pfft, all this complaining, at least Finland will get a focus tree.
Here i sit having to come to terms that my country never will get a focus tree because everyone around me (barred for one even smaller countr) already got a focus tree and there not realy a country pack you could lob them into. (i'm ofcouse talking about Germany's favorite speedbump: TIny litle insigificant Belgium, forever forgotten unles its to bash the EU )
so be happy isntead that Finland will get one, even if it isn't now or even next year.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

Any chance this a just a huge smokescreen from Paradox, and we are about to get a Finland tree in next month's Hoi4 anniversary patch?

We get all worked up, proceed to rant and rave for a few weeks, only to find out later that we had no reason to be upset at all?

 

[ClavintheGreat]

Any chance this a just a huge smokescreen from Paradox, and we are about to get a Finland tree in next month's Hoi4 anniversary patch?

We get all worked up, proceed to rant and rave for a few weeks, only to find out later that we had no reason to be upset at all?

Unlikely

 

[krios41]

Any chance this a just a huge smokescreen from Paradox, and we are about to get a Finland tree in next month's Hoi4 anniversary patch?

We get all worked up, proceed to rant and rave for a few weeks, only to find out later that we had no reason to be upset at all?

that would be such a chad move

 

[ZeDoctor1918]

I do have to wonder how the team planned to have an Eastern Front dlc that excludes Finland and didn't expect this kind of reaction? Finland gave the USSR a beating that was pivotal in giving Germany the idea that after the purge, the USSR would be a walk in the park militarily.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

Unlikely

Hey, a person can still dream, can't they? As they say in the Southeast USA (where I live): "Denial ain't just a river in Egypt"

 

[sdplissken]

I do have to wonder how the team planned to have an Eastern Front dlc that excludes Finland and didn't expect this kind of reaction? Finland gave the USSR a beating that was pivotal in giving Germany the idea that after the purge, the USSR would be a walk in the park militarily.

Yeah the reaction shouldn’t be surprising. I think they felt that they made enough significant changes to make the player base happy for a while.

 

[Underground Dweller]

nah I dont think it means that. Sure maybe less soviet side driven stuff, but on the other hand it gets built on a stable USSR base without competing with other stuff there

All of our previous experience points in this direction, yes.

 

[brissyger]

I wonder when this decision was made. What makes the most sense to me is that Finland was meant to be in this DLC. Otherwise it makes no sense that they made Battle for the Bosphorous before this DLC, instead of the Nordic country pack. Had they made trees for the Scandinavian nations and Finland instead, we would've had a treee for Finland before this DLC.

From memory they said Turkey was far and away the most popular country without its own focus tree to be played. Greece was on about the same level as Finland and the Scandinavian countries so it made commercial sense for them to make the first country pack focus there and have Turkey be the star of the show.

 

[brissyger]

pfft, all this complaining, at least Finland will get a focus tree.
Here i sit having to come to terms that my country never will get a focus tree because everyone around me (barred for one even smaller countr) already got a focus tree and there not realy a country pack you could lob them into. (i'm ofcouse talking about Germany's favorite speedbump: TIny litle insigificant Belgium, forever forgotten unles its to bash the EU )
so be happy isntead that Finland will get one, even if it isn't now or even next year.

Haha meanwhile Australia does have its own focus tree but it is so boring I think I would rather play the generic tree.

 

[sdplissken]

From memory they said Turkey was far and away the most popular country without its own focus tree to be played. Greece was on about the same level as Finland and the Scandinavian countries so it made commercial sense for them to make the first country pack focus there and have Turkey be the star of the show.

That’s because they have never given the Winter War any attention. Not in the Soviet tree not in the Finnish tree.

if they had a decent tree with some decisions to make around the Winter War, no doubt that they would be more played. Look at Poland, people play Poland to try to survive. Finland would probably be at least that popular

 

[brissyger]

That’s because they have never given the Winter War any attention. Not in the Soviet tree not in the Finnish tree.

if they had a decent tree with some decisions to make around the Winter War, no doubt that they would be more played. Look at Poland, people play Poland to try to survive. Finland would probably be at least that popular

No doubt, It is a chicken and egg scenario. Finland won't have as many players until it gets proper attention but then it also doesn't get attention because a lot of people play other countries with the generic tree more. I understand an executive at Paradox looking at the numbers of people playing Turkey and green lighting a decision to have a content pack focused around them before Scandinavia and Finland. Hell the team is from Sweden, you don't think they wanted to put a country pack together for that region years ago? These decisions are made by people higher up the chain than developers.

 

[sdplissken]

No doubt, It is a chicken and egg scenario. Finland won't have as many players until it gets proper attention but then it also doesn't get attention because a lot of people play other countries with the generic tree more. I understand an executive at Paradox looking at the numbers of people playing Turkey and green lighting a decision to have a content pack focused around them before Scandinavia and Finland. Hell the team is from Sweden, you don't think they wanted to put a country pack together for that region years ago? These decisions are made by people higher up the chain than developers.

That might be right to an extent, but I doubt the CEO of paradox is deciding which country to put into a DLC. Pretty sure that they are given a budget or ask for capital for a project, etc

I mean, I’m sure they sign off on stuff but doubt they come to the team with “I want X country DLC”

 

[ZeDoctor1918]

That might be right to an extent, but I doubt the CEO of paradox is deciding which country to put into a DLC. Pretty sure that they are given a budget or ask for capital for a project, etc

I mean, I’m sure they sign off on stuff but doubt they come to the team with “I want X country DLC”

Especially with the recent EU IV drama, you would think avoiding controversial decisions would be a priority.

 

[brissyger]

That might be right to an extent, but I doubt the CEO of paradox is deciding which country to put into a DLC. Pretty sure that they are given a budget or ask for capital for a project, etc

I mean, I’m sure they sign off on stuff but doubt they come to the team with “I want X country DLC”

No I perhaps oversimplified the decision making process. I am sure there are a lot of factors at play but someone was saying Scandinavia would have been chosen over BftB if Finland was included from the start and I don't necessarily think that is the case.

If you were presented with two ideas to sign off on:

1. Country pack with the most played generic countries, mostly just content design from freelancers and very little effort for a profit, or
2. Country pack with a country that was integral to the war but not nearly as popular at the moment and would be significantly more cost to develop thanks to mechanics updates.

All I am saying is there is a rationale to the order of things and I'm sure a lot of it has to do with costs v benefits for the big guys upstairs.

Am I happy that is the case? Of course not but such is the way of the world.

 

[Rashie]

Honestly I don't think most people would mind having a few months delay and increasing the dlc price by a few €/£/$. It seems likely that it's either that or wait a year at best, most likely two or more, to see any Finland content.

And fair enough - I was using that as representative of all of the relatively extreme alt-history content that is being added to the Baltics/Poland, but sorry it did come across as an unfair comparison.

Out of interest, and tbh you probably can't answer this question, but why didn't you announce that Finland wasn't in the DLC (although you can still change your mind! please do its never too late!) at the same time you announced Italy wasn't?

While not having Finland in the USSR DLC sucks hard, the idea that people wouldn't rant about the prices of DLCs going up isn't true either. A lot of people absolutely would do exactly that, too.

 

[safe-keeper]

that would be such a chad move

I'm disappointed they didn't release the Victoria 3 reveal trailer on April 1st just to mess with everybody's heads. They will redeem themselves if it turns out No Finland is just a big troll.

 

[Axe99]

I actually don't have an issue with Finland being in this DLC at all. It's the same old story of we can't have everything we want at once (well, unless we want to wait five years between DLCs....) - and in the case of Finland, a combined "Scandinavian" pack, with Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland makes a huge amount of sense to do together. I very much sympathise with the people that want their Finnish tree as soon as possible, but I'd also be very, very surprised if Finland wasn't eventually on the cards. Squeezing it in now would almost definitely be a rush (or DLC delay) job - I'd personally prefer the devs spend the time they want on Finland (which had an incredibly complicated passage through the time period, and that's saying something for 1936-1948) so that its wars, foreign relations, Germany's use of Sweden to ship troops through its territory by train, Norway and Denmark is done right.

 

[Fulmen]

Sure maybe less soviet side driven stuff, but on the other hand it gets built on a stable USSR base without competing with other stuff there

Thing is, historically it was the Russians who drove events with Finland. Had they never attacked Finland to begin with, the country would've been neutral throughout WW2. Had they left Finland alone after the Winter War, there quite possibly would've been no Continuation War. Without the Continuation War there would have been no Lapland War. It was also the Russians who forced the Lapland War to break out under threat of Soviet occupation. Without this threat, the battles between the Germans and the Finns would have likely been limited to the failed German invasion of Suursaari (Hogland) in the Gulf of Finland.

Just make the tree worth the wait, that's all we ask.

It'd better be some serious hot shit. Current mechanics simply do not support modelling Finland in WW2 even remotely accurately, so mechanical changes and additions are a must. This means if they're going to be serious about it, then they absolutely cannot do Finland as just some small country pack addition where she's competing for developer attention with Norway while Sweden, who historically didn't even fight in the war, and whose government largely turned its back on Finland in her hour of greatest need, steals the spotlight of the DLC.

 

[sdplissken]

I actually don't have an issue with Finland being in this DLC at all. It's the same old story of we can't have everything we want at once (well, unless we want to wait five years between DLCs....) - and in the case of Finland, a combined "Scandinavian" pack, with Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland makes a huge amount of sense to do together. I very much sympathise with the people that want their Finnish tree as soon as possible, but I'd also be very, very surprised if Finland wasn't eventually on the cards. Squeezing it in now would almost definitely be a rush (or DLC delay) job - I'd personally prefer the devs spend the time they want on Finland (which had an incredibly complicated passage through the time period, and that's saying something for 1936-1948) so that its wars, foreign relations, Germany's use of Sweden to ship troops through its territory by train, Norway and Denmark is done right.

Rush job? Honestly, they are important enough that they should have had a tree from launch. They then have had the last 5 years to include them... it's just bad decisions but I agree that it shouldn't be done hastily.