Amazing AAR. Seems like the Russians might have been better used doing absolutely nothing.
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Absolutely agree. Russians were better not to move or patient about losing precious NM after a while but not now ! 
Like Narwhal pointed, I now started to believe where the game would be in better shape for Austrian coalition if Daun didnt move whole artilery to chase just 1 stack in Bremen. But inevitable is inevitable .. As there is restriction to entrenchment(not much bonus to defense deeply entrenched, exclude supply wagons of Narwhal, they did the defense well in Hannover :rofl: )levels in the game it is difficult to trust Daun would better stay with low NM.
Like Narwhal pointed, I now started to believe where the game would be in better shape for Austrian coalition if Daun didnt move whole artilery to chase just 1 stack in Bremen. But inevitable is inevitable .. As there is restriction to entrenchment(not much bonus to defense deeply entrenched, exclude supply wagons of Narwhal, they did the defense well in Hannover :rofl: )levels in the game it is difficult to trust Daun would better stay with low NM.
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Isn't this Russian behavior a bit unhistorical? I mean they DID inflict the biggest defeat on dear Fredric.
Rus indeed defeat somehow exhausted Frederick but they did have supply problems historically for attacking with full force. But they didnt have the problems against the Ottomans after a few years so it is all about historical plausability so not entirely unhistorical as the fact also Narwhall used brilliant tactics. And the fact Prussian army was the best army in the worlds about organization,fire power etc..
In game turns I have made a mistake not to send cossacks to Sweden then to Germany. But I couldnt trust the remaining armies will handle the situation in Könisberg. It seems they didnt with full force
In game turns I have made a mistake not to send cossacks to Sweden then to Germany. But I couldnt trust the remaining armies will handle the situation in Könisberg. It seems they didnt with full force
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This will be updated in the week - I want some time to describe the battle in details. After, it should be pretty easy for me - so pretty quick posting
Great AAR - very helpful for a new player to AGEOD games. Thanks and congrates to both players for putting in a spirited battle.
Narwhal, your AAR inspired me to write my AAR!
And also to probably buy Rise of Prussia!
This is a fantastically written/presented report, and, for how complicated the game is, a good way of showing the game's complexities.
And also to probably buy Rise of Prussia!
This is a fantastically written/presented report, and, for how complicated the game is, a good way of showing the game's complexities.
Thank you all for your comments. I really appreciate them.
After a hiatus, I carry on !
Part LXXXII - Early August 1760 – The Battle of Hannover
On the 20th of july, 1760, what would maybe be the most decisive battle of the war occurred at Hannover. The battle was short, relatively bloodless, and decisive.
The first signs of battle were the loud bangs of the Prussian canons, which outranged significantly the French weapons (Prussian army engaged at range 6 vs range 4 for the Austrians). This advantage in ranged did not matter much against well-entrenched Austrian positions (hits inflicted by my guns the first hour of battle : 7 for 169 inflicted in the battle in total – there were 550 French elements with favorable position out of 660).
Then, the men had to fight each other. Immediately, the Prussians had an advantage, as they were able to commit 218 elements out of the 681 (32%) elements of the Prussian army, while the French only committed 155 out of 704 (22%) elements. The superior authority of Keith must have played a role here :
Against this onslaught, the French received 169 hits and 1 753 cohesion loss, against a “mere” 80 hits and 831 cohesion loss for the Prussians. Among the Prussians, Hans von Kielmansegg (3-1-1) ’s particularly distinguished itself with 11 hits inflicted and 111 cohesion loss inflicted – but this had a price (9 hits suffered – you have to remember there were 45 units involved on the Prussian side).
After this disastrous first hour of battle for the French, Charles de Lorraine decided to cut his losses, and most of the French armies retreated. 9 units representing 124 elements (this means that those units were actually pretty strong brigades) tried to delay the Prussian onslaught, but against 218 Prussian elements in 45 units their losses were terrible :
197 hits suffered for the French, for 70 inflicted. Most of the French brigades displayed signs of cowardice at this point (yellow icon)... their morale is shattered.
Overall, the French lost more than twice the number of Prussian they killed, but unfortunately for me they retreated in good order (5 hits only, which given the size of the armies involved is surprising) :
Keith is now master of Hannover – again.
Keith won’t stop to rest, though. His orders are to carry on, cross the Weser, and intercept Von Daun before he joins up with the defeated French force, which should not be able to put much of the fight on its own now.
Other good news arrive.
- In Bremen, von Wedell was not engaged by Von Daun, much to my (and his) surprise. The reason is simple : Von Daun was not activated, nor the column with him, and thus could not force battle !
- In Lippstadt, the fortress has fallen after a quick assault. Munster is the large fortress to take to cut the French from Paris. That’s Frederick target, but a small task force is now sieging Dortmund, which will be assaulted next turn.
- Also, with 14 300 men, Heinrich is ready to fight more Russian troops !
The only (very) worrying information is the fall of Torgau – only Brandeburg is left before the road to Berlin is opened to the Austrians. I need to make haste in my destruction of the French.
Here is a global view :
After a hiatus, I carry on !
Part LXXXII - Early August 1760 – The Battle of Hannover
On the 20th of july, 1760, what would maybe be the most decisive battle of the war occurred at Hannover. The battle was short, relatively bloodless, and decisive.
The first signs of battle were the loud bangs of the Prussian canons, which outranged significantly the French weapons (Prussian army engaged at range 6 vs range 4 for the Austrians). This advantage in ranged did not matter much against well-entrenched Austrian positions (hits inflicted by my guns the first hour of battle : 7 for 169 inflicted in the battle in total – there were 550 French elements with favorable position out of 660).
Then, the men had to fight each other. Immediately, the Prussians had an advantage, as they were able to commit 218 elements out of the 681 (32%) elements of the Prussian army, while the French only committed 155 out of 704 (22%) elements. The superior authority of Keith must have played a role here :
Against this onslaught, the French received 169 hits and 1 753 cohesion loss, against a “mere” 80 hits and 831 cohesion loss for the Prussians. Among the Prussians, Hans von Kielmansegg (3-1-1) ’s particularly distinguished itself with 11 hits inflicted and 111 cohesion loss inflicted – but this had a price (9 hits suffered – you have to remember there were 45 units involved on the Prussian side).
After this disastrous first hour of battle for the French, Charles de Lorraine decided to cut his losses, and most of the French armies retreated. 9 units representing 124 elements (this means that those units were actually pretty strong brigades) tried to delay the Prussian onslaught, but against 218 Prussian elements in 45 units their losses were terrible :
197 hits suffered for the French, for 70 inflicted. Most of the French brigades displayed signs of cowardice at this point (yellow icon)... their morale is shattered.
Overall, the French lost more than twice the number of Prussian they killed, but unfortunately for me they retreated in good order (5 hits only, which given the size of the armies involved is surprising) :
Keith is now master of Hannover – again.
Keith won’t stop to rest, though. His orders are to carry on, cross the Weser, and intercept Von Daun before he joins up with the defeated French force, which should not be able to put much of the fight on its own now.
Other good news arrive.
- In Bremen, von Wedell was not engaged by Von Daun, much to my (and his) surprise. The reason is simple : Von Daun was not activated, nor the column with him, and thus could not force battle !
- In Lippstadt, the fortress has fallen after a quick assault. Munster is the large fortress to take to cut the French from Paris. That’s Frederick target, but a small task force is now sieging Dortmund, which will be assaulted next turn.
- Also, with 14 300 men, Heinrich is ready to fight more Russian troops !
The only (very) worrying information is the fall of Torgau – only Brandeburg is left before the road to Berlin is opened to the Austrians. I need to make haste in my destruction of the French.
Here is a global view :
nice to see you delving into the details of the battle reports, they are quite informative & that was a particularly bad moment for Van Daun to opt out of active operations
Marvelous representation as always Narwhal
I always thought Austrian moves were not seen very clear by the Prussians. But you are excellent in analysing the situation and again and again you have anticipated beforehand every possible move.
Well done.
I always thought Austrian moves were not seen very clear by the Prussians. But you are excellent in analysing the situation and again and again you have anticipated beforehand every possible move.
Well done.
Part LXXXIII - Late August 1760 – France is routed !
Yet another horrible turn for France.
Keith armies marched West as expected, and first met Charles de Lorraine’s army, who was trying to join with Von Daun. 88 000 Prussians, Hessians, Hannoverians, Brunswician and even English (not a lot of them) met 70 000 French, Saxons, Wurtembergers, Palatins (that’s how we would call them in French), Bavarians and even Austrians the 5th of August, 1760. This battle crushed French last hopes of victory :
15 000 dead people, and 59 extra hits during the retreat. 64 elements destroyed, and 6 NM lost. This could hardly be worse for the French ! The victory was pricy, though, as the Prussian army lost 10% of its men (8 800 men).
The French army retreated, but von Daun had not heard of the defeat yet, and carried on his march. At Diepholz, on the 10th of August, Von Daun scouts spotted another army. But the rejoicing was short : it was Keith’s army, here and ready to fight.
Von Daun is not De Lorraine, and he managed to retreat in relatively good order : 3000 dead only, and 2 hits during the retreat.
Now, a little beginner’s corner, I should have done earlier
Beginner’s corner : color coded for your convenience.
As you have probably noticed, the OTAN symbol during battle have all sorts of color. These colors indicate the nationality of the elements. Here is the chart :
A few points on this chart:
- Some units are described as “Irish”, or “Scottish”, or some rare nationalities like this, but given that’s only a couple elements in a complete army, they are considered as another “main” nationality for gameplay purpose. Strangely (engine limitation I suppose), the Saxons “pressed” into Frederick’s armies are considered Prussians for gameplay purpose.
- Some nationalities have a different color for “irregulars” (more accurately : light cavalry, light infantry, militia, not really “irregulars” but you get the point). Some other do not – especially Hannover which given the size of its army should have for consistency
- Some nationalities have the same or very similar color, the worse examples being the Hessian – British red, or the French – Imperial irregular light grey.
- Russians can change side, so I put them twice.
As I said already, there is a command point malus when you mix different nationalities. Actually, some nationalities go well with each other and will have no malus : Here is the chart, directly from Philippe Thibaut
FRA FRA
GBR GBR|HAN
RUS RUS
AUS AUS|SAX
PRU PRU|HAN|BRU
HAN HAN|PRU|HES|BRU
SAX SAX|AUS|PRU|HRE
SWE SWE
HRE HRE|HES|MEK|BAV|WUR|OLD|NAS|SAX
HES HES|HRE
SPA SPA|FRA
BAV BAV|HRE
WUR WUR|HRE
BRU BRU|PRU|HAN|HES|GBR
PAL PAL|HRE
NED NED
TUR TUR
POL POL
DEN DEN
RUP RUP
Basically, the Prussians work well with all their allies except the Brits, while the Austrians, French, Russians and Swedes cannot work together.
I never understood whether there were other penalties than CP when combining armies. I never noticed any, but I mostly play Prussia and Prussia is quite immune to those penalties.
Yes, Turkish, Netherlands, Denmark, Oldenburg, Nassau exist in the database. They are just never used in any campaign. Poland are used, but you will never see its troops as they are neutral. I have no idea what “RUP” is, though.
End of the corner
Those two victories are not quite enough : I have more good news…
First, Bremen fell by surprise, without assault. I suppose seeing Von Daun moving away despaired the defenders :
This means I can call the British reinforcements… More fresh troops.
I will use them to reinforce Wedell’s siege column.
Did I mention that Dortmund falled ? Well, I should have :
Münster is still under siege, though, and not even breached.
More good news, finally, from the Austrian front : Baris decided not to head directly to Berlin but too concentrate in Magdeburg, further away from Berlin, but closer to my armies… His objective was probably to help the French, but now it is too late.
As you can see, he even cancelled the siege of Leipzig for this.
Now that the French are defeated, exactly like the plan I set at the end of winter I should add (this time it worked perfectly !), here is my plan to face the new “Austrian” emergency :
I don’t believe the French will try to fight anymore, and with the fall of Bremen and the siege of Münster, there is only Minden to provide supply to the French armies – not quite enough. I suppose the French will now retreat back to Wesel, and I don’t plan to block them.
I will march directly to Magdeburg, to rescue the city. If on the way I can obliterate that HRE army, the better. At that moment, I am sure I am going to win the game.
Yet another horrible turn for France.
Keith armies marched West as expected, and first met Charles de Lorraine’s army, who was trying to join with Von Daun. 88 000 Prussians, Hessians, Hannoverians, Brunswician and even English (not a lot of them) met 70 000 French, Saxons, Wurtembergers, Palatins (that’s how we would call them in French), Bavarians and even Austrians the 5th of August, 1760. This battle crushed French last hopes of victory :
15 000 dead people, and 59 extra hits during the retreat. 64 elements destroyed, and 6 NM lost. This could hardly be worse for the French ! The victory was pricy, though, as the Prussian army lost 10% of its men (8 800 men).
The French army retreated, but von Daun had not heard of the defeat yet, and carried on his march. At Diepholz, on the 10th of August, Von Daun scouts spotted another army. But the rejoicing was short : it was Keith’s army, here and ready to fight.
Von Daun is not De Lorraine, and he managed to retreat in relatively good order : 3000 dead only, and 2 hits during the retreat.
Now, a little beginner’s corner, I should have done earlier
Beginner’s corner : color coded for your convenience.
As you have probably noticed, the OTAN symbol during battle have all sorts of color. These colors indicate the nationality of the elements. Here is the chart :
A few points on this chart:
- Some units are described as “Irish”, or “Scottish”, or some rare nationalities like this, but given that’s only a couple elements in a complete army, they are considered as another “main” nationality for gameplay purpose. Strangely (engine limitation I suppose), the Saxons “pressed” into Frederick’s armies are considered Prussians for gameplay purpose.
- Some nationalities have a different color for “irregulars” (more accurately : light cavalry, light infantry, militia, not really “irregulars” but you get the point). Some other do not – especially Hannover which given the size of its army should have for consistency
- Some nationalities have the same or very similar color, the worse examples being the Hessian – British red, or the French – Imperial irregular light grey.
- Russians can change side, so I put them twice.
As I said already, there is a command point malus when you mix different nationalities. Actually, some nationalities go well with each other and will have no malus : Here is the chart, directly from Philippe Thibaut
FRA FRA
GBR GBR|HAN
RUS RUS
AUS AUS|SAX
PRU PRU|HAN|BRU
HAN HAN|PRU|HES|BRU
SAX SAX|AUS|PRU|HRE
SWE SWE
HRE HRE|HES|MEK|BAV|WUR|OLD|NAS|SAX
HES HES|HRE
SPA SPA|FRA
BAV BAV|HRE
WUR WUR|HRE
BRU BRU|PRU|HAN|HES|GBR
PAL PAL|HRE
NED NED
TUR TUR
POL POL
DEN DEN
RUP RUP
Basically, the Prussians work well with all their allies except the Brits, while the Austrians, French, Russians and Swedes cannot work together.
I never understood whether there were other penalties than CP when combining armies. I never noticed any, but I mostly play Prussia and Prussia is quite immune to those penalties.
Yes, Turkish, Netherlands, Denmark, Oldenburg, Nassau exist in the database. They are just never used in any campaign. Poland are used, but you will never see its troops as they are neutral. I have no idea what “RUP” is, though.
End of the corner
Those two victories are not quite enough : I have more good news…
First, Bremen fell by surprise, without assault. I suppose seeing Von Daun moving away despaired the defenders :
This means I can call the British reinforcements… More fresh troops.
I will use them to reinforce Wedell’s siege column.
Did I mention that Dortmund falled ? Well, I should have :
Münster is still under siege, though, and not even breached.
More good news, finally, from the Austrian front : Baris decided not to head directly to Berlin but too concentrate in Magdeburg, further away from Berlin, but closer to my armies… His objective was probably to help the French, but now it is too late.
As you can see, he even cancelled the siege of Leipzig for this.
Now that the French are defeated, exactly like the plan I set at the end of winter I should add (this time it worked perfectly !), here is my plan to face the new “Austrian” emergency :
I don’t believe the French will try to fight anymore, and with the fall of Bremen and the siege of Münster, there is only Minden to provide supply to the French armies – not quite enough. I suppose the French will now retreat back to Wesel, and I don’t plan to block them.
I will march directly to Magdeburg, to rescue the city. If on the way I can obliterate that HRE army, the better. At that moment, I am sure I am going to win the game.
Marvelous representation as always Narwhal
I always thought Austrian moves were not seen very clear by the Prussians. But you are excellent in analysing the situation and again and again you have anticipated beforehand every possible move.
Well done.
I am extremely happy with 1760 - the year I played the best. My plan worked well beyond my expectations - I forced you to separate your force and then defeated your weakened main army.
Of course, had you sent someone else than Von Daun up north, and had you NOT lost all that NM in Eastern Russia, it could have turned very differentely. Suppose you stopped my onslaught on Hannover with some losses on both sides (possible with Von Daun, I suppose), I would have had to pull my army back to restore its cohesion, giving you time to join the French and Austrian army (maybe) - the worse thing that can happen to the Prussian player.
Actually, on second thought, I think I would have stayed in defensive with 2/3 of Keith's armies in front of Hannover (I had lots of supply), just to make sure you don't merge the two forces, and sent one third of my troops to Berlin to protect the capital (they would have joined up with the very strong garnison, and also my force sieging the Swedish cities up North. I would then have waited for winter, which I would have used to bring Frederick and his column back in the heartland. 1761 would have been a very, very interesting year, I would have been on the offensive to get some breathing space, and the Russian would have attacked Kolberg... Not that I would have defended it, knowing that the Russians were about to opt out.
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About mixing troop type from different nationalities, you might have mentioned it, and if so, I apologize, but there is a trait for a general that says that they are effective in leading multinational armies.
couple of decisive wins but its interesting to see how effective Daun is, even on the wrong end of a beating.
Yes Loki, as Narwhal have said Daun prevented more casualties for French from counter-attack of Prussians in Hannover. But As long as I remember I was able to control the city for 1-2 turns only.
Again Narwhal is very correct about saying Russians failure and Daun's unnecessary movements wasted Austrians valuable NM and not for being on time for preparing entrechments. But even all that doesnt have great impact as the the French lack of replacements and experienced Prussian generals(They should have many stars). I was surprised to have 1000 pwr stacks with all those unsuccessfull battles.(I should be better at building depot bns maybe) and if I was more succesfull about identifying the trap...
Excellent color-coded alliance map legend by the way Narwhal
Again Narwhal is very correct about saying Russians failure and Daun's unnecessary movements wasted Austrians valuable NM and not for being on time for preparing entrechments. But even all that doesnt have great impact as the the French lack of replacements and experienced Prussian generals(They should have many stars). I was surprised to have 1000 pwr stacks with all those unsuccessfull battles.(I should be better at building depot bns maybe) and if I was more succesfull about identifying the trap...
Excellent color-coded alliance map legend by the way Narwhal
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That's some nice strategies you have there Narwhal, you're moving the Prussians all over the place. How often do you use forced march?
Part LXXXIV – Early September 1760 – France defeated, Russia victorious !
By the beginning of september, France is defeated on all fronts. I mean, really ALL fronts :
It is rarely known that French Quebec fought well after the defeat of the Plains of Abrahams, with no reinforcement, no hope, only to force as much English force as possible to be committed in America. A gigantic Alamo, if you want.
The role and heroism of the Chevalier de Levis is now unfortunately completely forgotten. [The Vaudreuil the game mentions fought to the end as well, but was also responsible for earlier defeats, so…]
In any case, in game terms, the impact is huge : 5 NM for me, -10 NM for Austria, and the arrival of a very, very significiant “Glorious Reinforcement” :
That’s 10 000 men, including 5500 cavalrymen (!) of reinforcements. I did not even need them to win, but they are quite handy.
I also received the troops I asked for in Bremen :
4000 more men... handy.
Finally, I defeated an Imperial force while moving to Hannover :
While Zweibrucken saved most of his army (less than 10% of losses), this battle costs me… 17 men. The French-Austrian national morale is I believe at an historical low.
Here is the situation in the West :
As you can see, Keith’s army is now in Hannover, from which he will first go to Braunschweig, and then to Magdeburg.
Also note that the Austrians are still concentrating (I suppose) in Magdeburg, preparing for the battle to come.
Finally, Münster is breached ! Once Münster will have fallen, I will take Minden with Frederick’s forces helped by the Glorious Reinforcements, which will force the French to retreat back the France. Ah !
Now, let’s talk about, well, Russia.
The Russians attacked :
6 NM … GREAT. And they attacked again :
Ah ! 4 more NM. And they attacked again :
Ah ! Stalemate… Good ! So that’s the overall result… The Russian offensive brought me about 45 NM, so increased the gap of 90 NM. Outstanding !
And then I noticed this :
I had left the walls itself without defenders except the Bateaux (I always keep at least a militia). The “stalemate” battle was actually a defeat for the Prussian, which was considered a “stalemate” because the retreat was in good order and because the Russians had quite a lots of losses. But I am actually defeated, and Heinrich is retreating. The city has been taken by the Russians, and immediately garrisoned !
For Baris, this battle is like the Battle of The Saintes during the American Revolutionnary War. It is a victory, but it comes much, much too late to have an impact.
Oh, by the way :
Austrian’s NM is 35 ! 35 ! if they lose 35 more points, it is instant victory for me.
By the beginning of september, France is defeated on all fronts. I mean, really ALL fronts :
It is rarely known that French Quebec fought well after the defeat of the Plains of Abrahams, with no reinforcement, no hope, only to force as much English force as possible to be committed in America. A gigantic Alamo, if you want.
The role and heroism of the Chevalier de Levis is now unfortunately completely forgotten. [The Vaudreuil the game mentions fought to the end as well, but was also responsible for earlier defeats, so…]
In any case, in game terms, the impact is huge : 5 NM for me, -10 NM for Austria, and the arrival of a very, very significiant “Glorious Reinforcement” :
That’s 10 000 men, including 5500 cavalrymen (!) of reinforcements. I did not even need them to win, but they are quite handy.
I also received the troops I asked for in Bremen :
4000 more men... handy.
Finally, I defeated an Imperial force while moving to Hannover :
While Zweibrucken saved most of his army (less than 10% of losses), this battle costs me… 17 men. The French-Austrian national morale is I believe at an historical low.
Here is the situation in the West :
As you can see, Keith’s army is now in Hannover, from which he will first go to Braunschweig, and then to Magdeburg.
Also note that the Austrians are still concentrating (I suppose) in Magdeburg, preparing for the battle to come.
Finally, Münster is breached ! Once Münster will have fallen, I will take Minden with Frederick’s forces helped by the Glorious Reinforcements, which will force the French to retreat back the France. Ah !
Now, let’s talk about, well, Russia.
The Russians attacked :
6 NM … GREAT. And they attacked again :
Ah ! 4 more NM. And they attacked again :
Ah ! Stalemate… Good ! So that’s the overall result… The Russian offensive brought me about 45 NM, so increased the gap of 90 NM. Outstanding !
And then I noticed this :
I had left the walls itself without defenders except the Bateaux (I always keep at least a militia). The “stalemate” battle was actually a defeat for the Prussian, which was considered a “stalemate” because the retreat was in good order and because the Russians had quite a lots of losses. But I am actually defeated, and Heinrich is retreating. The city has been taken by the Russians, and immediately garrisoned !
For Baris, this battle is like the Battle of The Saintes during the American Revolutionnary War. It is a victory, but it comes much, much too late to have an impact.
Oh, by the way :
Austrian’s NM is 35 ! 35 ! if they lose 35 more points, it is instant victory for me.
that NM post at the end is so painful to see .... looks like all your very decisive manouvres throughout 1760 have really paid off