Learn from Darkest Hour

[Count Drew]

Seems like people are torn both ways in their answers. There is merit to saying it's near impossible to go back in time, gaming should improve your experience with development. (There is a HUGE reason HOI2-Darkest Hour and Mods are still around and successful as they are, as long as they are) So that now we are left here with HOI4 coming out and from watching the early evolution of the game on youtube I can seen a ton of things that are going to need modding. I suppose in about 2 or 3 years HOI4-Modded will be finished and polished as the other titles have done.

WISH they would have an open beta to everyone(make us pay) Really it wouldn't stop me from buying the game outright just to tell them what should and shouldn't be done(including all the wonderful advice and tips from everyone here)

 

[dadiman260]

1 Feature i miss from dh is the naval control :| for some bizzar reason they decided to get rid of previews of where the ai is gonna send the fleets when u patrol for example u need to use the naval map mode now

 

[Nats]

So that now we are left here with HOI4 coming out and from watching the early evolution of the game on youtube I can seen a ton of things that are going to need modding. I suppose in about 2 or 3 years HOI4-Modded will be finished and polished as the other titles have done.

Funny I havent seen much so far that would require modding or any DLC so far. I saw loads I didnt like about HOI3 before it came out, especially its concentration on symbols to represent units and its horrid dark dreary map, but HOI4 seems practically perfect - I love the look of the sprites and the research icons etc, the leaders etc are nice and colourful and well chosen and the map is obviously very nice. Even the ship combat screen looks lovely. There doesnt seem to be much to do to the game at all, well for me anyway.

The only element I would say I dont like that much are the division icons in the unit panel when you select a division - helmet, mountain symbols etc. They could do with being changed to colourful unit pictures like the absolutely superb SKIF HOI2 mod :

http://s59.radikal.ru/i165/0811/5e/d2d3bdefae54.jpg

http://www.star.net.pl/~scytth/hoi2/page/image/example_2.png

 

[dadiman260]

It seems like the community for hoi 4 is split between people who belive hoi 2 was supperior because of its attention to detail/flavour and macro scale while on the other hand u got the ocd community who just loved the level of micro and complexity required to play hoi 3 i am on the hoi 2 side and i am loveing the look of hoi 4 because it seems like they took the combat mechanics from hoi 3 and the put it all on top of the flavouring of hoi 2

Like this stuff right here gives me a hard on while in hoi 3 i am flacid the hell is heavy armor IV

 

[Animum24]

Even though I have never played HOI2/DH, I'm on the HOI3 side.

Personally I like the more micro style of gameplay and the rather simple graphics with a nice amount of information at an instant (if you knew how to read it), because gameplay s always the thing that keeps you playing and there is no better and more beautiful graphics than the one in your head called imagination.

Still a bit more immersion etc. would have been nice in HOI3, but I think this will be added to HOI4 with the equipment mechanic.

Other parts of the game I'm not really looking forward to or am sad that they got removed from the game (OOB), other systems i don't really know what to expect (supply, Battleplaner).

 

[SchwarzKatze]

I like the HoI3 style research system a lot better, where I would improve different aspects one at a time to customize machines of war that suit my needs, not just getting a new predefined package. However it left a lot to be desired in its execution, like how militia, infantry and cavalries require completely distinct weapons, and also that while all propeller planes share the same engine tech, ships of different classes require completely different engine, armor, and even AA technology, turning them into massive leadership dumps.

 

[CocoCincinnati]

so... uhm... perhaps it'd help if you guys gave some concrete examples of things that made DH awesomesauce for us younglings to pour over....?
Cuz right now there's really not much substance in this thread...

What exactly does DH offer that HOI3 doesn''t?
Just the map of HOI3 is a million miles progress from the "stale HOI 2 map".
P.S.: i do own HOI2, DH, HOI3 and its variants

I prefer HOI3 myself, but here are few things from DH that I think are better.

- The ability to fine tune the trade AI in DH is a thing of beauty, I'm perplexed as to why something similar never made it's way into 3.
- The tech teams in DH added some great flavor to the system and technolgoy in general was a bit better.
- DH has much more flexibilty and versatility for playing expanded times lines, from WWI to the Cold War.
- You can play the Kaiserreich mod on DH.

 

[Animum24]

I prefer HOI3 myself, but here are few things from DH that I think are better.

- The ability to fine tune the trade AI in DH is a thing of beauty, I'm perplexed as to why something similar never made it's way into 3.
- The tech teams in DH added some great flavor to the system and technolgoy in general was a bit better.
- DH has much more flexibilty and versatility for playing expanded times lines, from WWI to the Cold War.
- You can play the Kaiserreich mod on DH.

Could you please elaborate on the first two points because for a player who doesn't really know the game those are a bit vague.
And I would really like to know what those features are in particular and what makes them good

 

[CocoCincinnati]

Could you please elaborate on the first two points because for a player who doesn't really know the game those are a bit vague.
And I would really like to know what those features are in particular and what makes them good

In DH, you don't just hit the automate trade button and forget it (although you still can), you can fine tune it by prioritizing which resources you want the AI to focus on trading for, which resources to focus on trading out and which resources you want to stockpile. There is also a slider to determine how profitable you think a trade should be in general before the AI will accept it.

As for tech teams, you don't assign leadership to research, you have a certain number of research slots and you assign research teams to do the research and each team would have varying levels of skill in different areas. So if you were researching a new light bomber, you could give that task to Junkers and they would be able to complete it faster than say Porsche could, but if you were researching a new tank, then the opposite would be true. Also, the tech tree kept the land doctrines seperate so you would pick a doctrine and focus on that, instead of needing to reasearch parts of all of them like you do in 3.

 

[fredgiblet]

So the research was HoI 2 research then. I have to say I didn't care much for that setup. I liked the idea of specialized teams, but I didn't like how limited it was.

 

[scroggin]

These are immortal words I cannot overstate. I went from HOI2 to HOI3 and was completely put asleep. The control, simplicity and beauty(yet vast detail in HOI2) brought me back. Darkest Hour was an amazing add on and I am watching eagerly the development in HOI4 and I see some of the qualities there from the previous versions. I know that a lot of work was done on HOI3 to repair it after it's release but once I was lost on it, I never came back.

Perhaps it's a personal thing but I would say the feel, the immersion and everything to do with it. When I play Darkest Hour I feel like I'm in WW2, the little bit I've put into HOI3(I feel like I'm in some sort of WW3 scenario) doesn't suite me. Just doesn't stick... and I know a great deal of people feel the same as the former is much more popular.

I am happy so far with some of the progress and things I've seen done on HOI4 and keep up the good work and we are all very patient and hope it comes out of the starting line at least partially finished and polished(beautiful)

Well it looks like HOI4 is doing just that they are bringing back the tech teams and many of the best aspects of HOI2. It doesnt look like HOI4 will be as event driven as HOI2 was.

HOI3 became a great game by the time their finest hour came out. But a lot of people couldnt get over the learning curve needed to play it well. 2 was better in diplomacy and industry but 3 was better at simulating battle and the military. 3 fixed some of the unneccesary tasks in 2 like having to remember to change you political settings every new year and having to constantly reassign spies. 4 looks like it will streamline the tasks even more.

 

[hkrommel]

The reason I liked DH was that it was elegant. It gave you a ton of control and options, but it wasn't a hassle or overwhelming like HoI 3. Just look at the tech screen from DH vs the tech screen from HoI 3 and tell me which has a better interface . With DH I actually controlled everything myself except trade and intelligence, and even then I messed with those from time to time, and I never felt overwhelmed. With HoI 3 I got Carpal Tunnel Syndrome before I was finished assigning all the Corps commanders in the OOB. So. Much. Clicking.

HoI 4 looks a lot more like DH. Bigger picture, more streamlined, more elegant. While I think some things (techs, in particular) may be too simplified (though we'll see how this works once the game comes out and we can see variants in action), those can be modded.

 

[AradoX]

I'm playing Kaiserreich (again) right now, after a long time away from both HOI2 and HOI3. But the HOI4 hype got me needing a HOI fix
I can say for sure, that I'm not going back to HOI3 - though I've spent alot of time with it, and liked it.

I'm already loving HOI4 from the DD and WWW, and I think they have learned from DH. So hopefully HOI4 will be the best of both worlds!
Anyway, Kaiserreich will be the only HOI game I'll play until HOI4 comes out.
I'm also pretty sure, that I'll keep comming back to Kaiserreich on HOI2 - UNLESS / UNTIL a Kaiserreich mod is made for HOI4!
I'd even pay good money for a HOI4 Kaiserreich DLC/expansion

 

[Animum24]

In DH, you don't just hit the automate trade button and forget it (although you still can), you can fine tune it by prioritizing which resources you want the AI to focus on trading for, which resources to focus on trading out and which resources you want to stockpile. There is also a slider to determine how profitable you think a trade should be in general before the AI will accept it.

As for tech teams, you don't assign leadership to research, you have a certain number of research slots and you assign research teams to do the research and each team would have varying levels of skill in different areas. So if you were researching a new light bomber, you could give that task to Junkers and they would be able to complete it faster than say Porsche could, but if you were researching a new tank, then the opposite would be true. Also, the tech tree kept the land doctrines seperate so you would pick a doctrine and focus on that, instead of needing to reasearch parts of all of them like you do in 3.

Thank you very much.
Some interesting mechanics, I wonder why they didn't include them in HOI3.
They would have been useful/fun.

 

[Gort11]

There are some things I wouldn't want to see come back from DH. HoI4 looks like it will have far better air and navy controls - the naval simulation in DH is pretty appalling once you know where the problems lie. (EG: A fleet carrier cannot hurt a submarine, a submarine cannot hurt a heavy cruiser, a fleet of thirty submarines will murder almost anything that floats and so on and so on)

That said, the sheer amount of busywork HoI3 added with an officer for every division, HQ units that you have to babysit, eight bajillion provinces and the offer to automate large portions of the game to make up for how little fun they were made HoI3 by far the inferior game.

I'm hopeful that HoI4 can marry good naval and air controls with land combat that involves automation that's fun to use.

 

[Skjold89]

Yep Darkest Hour was an superior game to HoI 3 in almost every way.

 

[hkrommel]

There are some things I wouldn't want to see come back from DH. HoI4 looks like it will have far better air and navy controls - the naval simulation in DH is pretty appalling once you know where the problems lie. (EG: A fleet carrier cannot hurt a submarine, a submarine cannot hurt a heavy cruiser, a fleet of thirty submarines will murder almost anything that floats and so on and so on)

Yeah, that's why the first thing I do is mod the stats for those. DH was really easy to make personal mods with. You could even disable entire units and doctrines (I played a few games where I disabled CAGs, Carriers, and Carrier doctrines, so battleships still ruled the waves in 1947)

 

[Gort11]

Yeah, that's true. Most of the unit stats are just in some text files, after all.

 

[Count Drew]

I played HOI3 up to Motherland, the enormous micromanagement and learning curb were okay but I guess I just don't have the patience for it(some people will love potato and some will love tomato and call them by different names). I look at HOI4 Youtubes and I see streamlining. SO obviously the Devs agree with me more than the community.

After watching another installment of the Wens Battles I am eagerly hoping they listen to us. When you GOOGLE Paradox Games there are 6 titles listed ... HOI3 isn't one of them, DH is... It's a better game and an antique to the other. Period(despite it's old engine and shortcomings) it's funner that's why, I love the fact I take Italy or China and recreate my own military in my own vision. In HOI3 you had to manipulate or build up factors just to declare war. Click endlessly through endless HQs and attachments you couldn't really feel the war the same way.

Of course I am old Paradox gamer who started with EU1 so I am going to be biased. That's just me... There are a lot of new world Paradox Gamers here.

 

[Count Drew]

If you see here, paradox forums google shows where the gaming interest is in my humble opinion...