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MRAKoris

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Originally posted by StephenT

RUSSIA

Krasnov (cavalry leader)
Kornilov (supreme commander, killed early in the war)
Denikin (Kornilov's replacement)
Wrangel (a skillful general - made good use of British-supplied tanks to capture Stalingrad^WTsaritsyn)
Kaledin (low-ranking)
Alekseev
Mai-Maevskii (better-than-average general)
Kudinov (cavalry leader)
Mamontov (cavalry leader)
Lukomskii

Also Yudenitch, who fought in the North around Petrograd - but perhaps for playability reasons he should be made an Estonian leader.

SIBERIA

Lebedev (quite skillful; highest rank)
Boldyrev
Voitsekhovskii
Kappel (army leader)
Gajda (commander of the Czech Legion, Siberia's elite troops)
Khanzhin (army leader)
Rogovskii

Kolchak - admiral (former commander of the Black Sea Fleet) and also self-appointed Supreme Ruler of Russia (he was not a modest man).


StephenT, i can provide you a complete list of all more or less significant army personalities a.k.a. generals of Whites and Siberia - but i really lack for any experience in scripting of HoI. So i can briefly characterize them as far as they're described in my several sources, including The Complete Encyclopaedia of White Movement i recently bought.

Will it be OK? If yes, could you kindly state what armies i should take and which years.:)


Respect, cheers
 

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MRAKoris, just post them and someone will no doubt code them up.
 

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Turkish leaders:

Code:
Name;ID;Country;Rank;Traits;Skill;Experience;Loyalty;Type;Picture;x
Djevad Pasha;41100;TUR;2;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Djemal Pasha;41101;TUR;2;2;2;0;4;0;djemal_ahmed_tur;x
Enver Pasha;41102;TUR;1;5;3;0;5;0;enver_tur;x
Liman von Sanders;41103;TUR;0;6;3;0;3;0;liman_von_sanders_otto_tur;x
von der Goltz;41104;TUR;0;2;3;0;3;0;goltz_von_der_colmar_tur;x
Vehip Pasha;41105;TUR;2;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Ahmet Izzet Pasha;41106;TUR;2;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Kemal Pasha;41107;TUR;3;7;5;0;5;0;kemal_mustafa_tur;x
Nehed Pasha;41108;TUR;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Hasan Izzet Pasha;41109;TUR;2;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Hakki Pasha;41110;TUR;2;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Kamil Pasha;41111;TUR;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Essad Pasha;41112;TUR;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Djemal "Kuchuk" Bey;41113;TUR;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Khalil Pasha;41114;TUR;3;1;3;0;4;0;khalil_tur;x
Ihsan Pasha;41115;TUR;3;0;3;0;4;0;ihsan_ali_tur;x
Fevzi Pasha;41116;TUR;2;4;3;0;4;0;cakmak_fezvi_tur;x
Kress;41117;TUR;3;2;3;0;3;0;kress_von_kressenstein_friedrich_tur;x
Sevki Pasha;41118;TUR;2;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Nuri Pasha;41119;TUR;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Hilmi Pasha;41120;TUR;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Fuad Pasha;41121;TUR;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Ismet Pasha;41122;TUR;3;0;3;0;4;0;ismet_mustafa_tur;x
Fakhri Pasha;41123;TUR;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Karabekir Pasha;41124;TUR;3;0;2;0;4;0;karabekir_kazim_tur;x
Rauf Bey;41125;TUR;3;0;3;0;4;1;orbay_rauf_tur;x
Behjet Pasha;41126;TUR;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Ghalib Bey;41127;TUR;3;4;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Jaafar Pasha;41128;TUR;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Niazi Bey;41129;TUR;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Feizi Bey;41130;TUR;2;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Hakki Bey;41131;TUR;3;0;3;0;4;1;unknown;x
Zeki Bey;41132;TUR;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Limpus;41133;TUR;1;0;3;0;3;1;unknown;x
Souchon;41134;TUR;1;4096;4;0;3;1;souchon_wilhelm_tur;x
Langfeld;41135;TUR;3;8192;1;0;3;2;unknown;x
Buddecke;41136;TUR;3;0;0;0;3;2;unknown;x
Liebmann;41137;TUR;3;0;0;0;3;2;unknown;x
 

Atul

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you guys clearly dont have a clue about austria-hungary in the great war :)
there is at least 2-3 austrian generals who deserve a rating of 5 if you take people like Haig into that list.
They'd be Conrad von Hötzendorf, the austrian chief of staff and clearly one of the last real 'field marshals' and great military leaders.
Boroevic von Bojna, who fought off the italians in 12 bloody battles at the isonzo and then routed them in the 12. battle.
The third would be Alexander Brosch, who fought heroically with the 2nd tyrolean kaiserjäger in northern galicia at hujcze

i am working on an accurate list for austrian officers, it will take a few more days tho

regards
atul
 

Allenby

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Originally posted by Atul
you guys clearly dont have a clue about austria-hungary in the great war :)

Thanks. Taking the piss always wins me over. :confused: Besides, I think Vulture wrote the Austro-Hungarian leader list.

Originally posted by Atul
there is at least 2-3 austrian generals who deserve a rating of 5 if you take people like Haig into that list.
They'd be Conrad von Hötzendorf, the austrian chief of staff and clearly one of the last real 'field marshals' and great military leaders.
Boroevic von Bojna, who fought off the italians in 12 bloody battles at the isonzo and then routed them in the 12. battle.
The third would be Alexander Brosch, who fought heroically with the 2nd tyrolean kaiserjäger in northern galicia at hujcze

i am working on an accurate list for austrian officers, it will take a few more days tho

Well Haig won on the Western Front, Conrad won....

At the start of the war, he concentrated all his efforts on trying to crush Serbia, therefore neglecting the Russian front, in which he relied upon the Germans to hold back the Russians, even when told that they would implement the Schlieffen Plan. Conrad then decided on a strange compromise whereby several Austrian divisions would stay on the Serbian front before going to the Russian front to fill the gaping hole he had left. Potiorek on the Serbian front wrote those troops into his invasion plan, only for Conrad to take them away and then transport them to the Russian front at the speed of a bicycle, whereby he took the offensive against the Russians, even though he was outnumbered. I think it would be reasonable to say that Conrad's blundering would have ensured Austria-Hungary's destruction in August 1914, if it wasn't for some equally terrible command and execution on the Russian side.

Skill 4, even being extremely generous, would be reasonable for him. :)

Concerning von Bojna and the Isonzo. I was always under the impression that the stalemate on that river was the product, not of brilliant Austrian command, but the inefficiencies of the Italian army (especially artillery), not to mention their not-so-brilliant commander, General Cadorna. Surely the victory at Caporetto was more to the work of Otto von Below - commander of the 14th army?

Unfortunately, I've never heard of Alexander Brosch :(
 

Halibutt

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Originally posted by Allenby
Polish leaders:

Code:
Name;ID;Country;Rank;Traits;Skill;Experience;Loyalty;Type;Picture;x
Pilsudski;67100;POL;0;22;5;0;5;0;pilsudski_jozef_pol;x
Haller de Hallenburg;67101;POL;1;3;1;0;5;0;haller_de_hallenburg_jozef_pol;x
Dowbor-Musnicki;67102;POL;1;258;3;0;4;0;dowbor-musnicki_jozef_pol;x
Iwaszkiewicz;67103;POL;2;4;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Raszewski;67104;POL;2;4;2;0;5;0;unknown;x
de Hening-Michaelis;67105;POL;1;0;3;0;3;0;unknown;x
Smigly-Rydz;67106;POL;2;20;3;0;5;0;smigly-rydz_edward_pol;x
Zeligowski;67107;POL;2;16;3;0;3;0;zeligowski_lucjan_pol;x
Listowski;67108;POL;2;0;3;0;5;0;unknown;x
Romer;67109;POL;2;20;3;0;5;0;unknown;x
Szeptycki;67110;POL;1;4;3;0;5;0;unknown;x
Sikorski;67111;POL;2;4;2;0;5;0;sikorski_wladyslaw_pol;x
Krajowski;67112;POL;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Rozwadowski;67113;POL;3;4;4;0;4;0;unknown;x
Wieniawa-Dlugoszowski;67114;POL;3;0;67114;0;4;0;unknown;x
Rómmel;67115;POL;3;4;3;0;4;0;rommel_juliusz_pol;x
Romanowicz;67116;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Berbecki;67117;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Pogorzelski;67118;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Szubert;67119;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Wróblewski;67120;POL;3;256;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Skierski;67121;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Jasinski;67122;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Krzyski;67123;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Konarzewski;67124;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Grudzielski;67125;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Jedrzejewski;67126;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Zegota-Januszajtis;67127;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Czuma;67128;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;czuma_walerian_pol;x
Durski-Trzaska;67129;POL;3;0;3;0;2;0;unknown;x
Puchalski;67130;POL;3;0;3;0;2;0;unknown;x
Kutrzeba;67131;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;kutrzeba_tadeusz_pol;x
Krajowski;67132;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Paulik;67133;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Pazelik;67134;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Rybak;67135;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Belina-Prazmowski;67136;POL;3;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Litwinowicz;67137;POL;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Rouppert;67138;POL;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Kasprzycki;67139;POL;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Zulinski;67140;POL;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x

Not a single typo? Strange... :D

I'll post a more complete list later this week as I'm too tired now. Some air generals as well, and some traits obviously.
Cheers
 

Halibutt

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The siberian "Voitsekhovskii" should probably bear his original name, Wojciechowski.

Also, I don't know how will you handle the fact that before Poland was created there were at least six polish divisions (some even as huge as 30.000 bayonettes) fighting both in the east and in the west. When it comes to Siberia and siberian forces, maj. Czuma (later to become general) , who commanded 5 Polish Infantry Division (def. trait, pic can be taken from vanilla HoI as it's the only pic of him we could find) should be added to the list.

Whoever fights in southern Russia (white side) should be given the service of gen. Lucjan Zeligowski (4 Polish Infantry Division). Also France should recieve Haller (as lt.gen.), while the other of the Haller brothers should fight for A-H.

That's just a few examples right from the top of my head. Will post more as soon as time allows me to.
Cheers
 

MRAKoris

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Originally posted by Halibutt
The siberian "Voitsekhovskii" should probably bear his original name, Wojciechowski.

Also, I don't know how will you handle the fact that before Poland was created there were at least six polish divisions (some even as huge as 30.000 bayonettes) fighting both in the east and in the west. When it comes to Siberia and siberian forces, maj. Czuma (later to become general) , who commanded 5 Polish Infantry Division (def. trait, pic can be taken from vanilla HoI as it's the only pic of him we could find) should be added to the list.

Whoever fights in southern Russia (white side) should be given the service of gen. Lucjan Zeligowski (4 Polish Infantry Division). Also France should recieve Haller (as lt.gen.), while the other of the Haller brothers should fight for A-H.

That's just a few examples right from the top of my head. Will post more as soon as time allows me to.
Cheers

Sergei Wojciechowski should have Polish spelling indeed and actually he has - i sent photos with him where he was named in Polish way.

By the way, Halibutt, how should we go about Dowbor-Musnicki, actually he was Russian general of Polish origin and only agter Revolution he became at first Byelorussian general and then Polish...:eek:
 

Halibutt

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Originally posted by MRAKoris
Sergei Wojciechowski should have Polish spelling indeed and actually he has - i sent photos with him where he was named in Polish way.

By the way, Halibutt, how should we go about Dowbor-Musnicki, actually he was Russian general of Polish origin and only agter Revolution he became at first Byelorussian general and then Polish...:eek:
Too bad the wakeleader command is bugged... The way it is now we'd have to give him to Russia from the start, then sleep him when Poland is created (or looses the puppet status). No idea what to do with Byelorussia though. Did he actually fight for Byelorussia? Never heard of it, since he was fighting with I Polish Corps (1917-1918), and then after demobilisation simply went home to Staszów. Several months later he went to Warsaw and joined the polish army on Nov. 14th, then was transferred to command the Grand Poland uprising. I couldn't find any info on the Byelorussian episode.
Cheers
 

MRAKoris

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Originally posted by Halibutt
Too bad the wakeleader command is bugged... The way it is now we'd have to give him to Russia from the start, then sleep him when Poland is created (or looses the puppet status). No idea what to do with Byelorussia though. Did he actually fight for Byelorussia? Never heard of it, since he was fighting with I Polish Corps (1917-1918), and then after demobilisation simply went home to Staszów. Several months later he went to Warsaw and joined the polish army on Nov. 14th, then was transferred to command the Grand Poland uprising. I couldn't find any info on the Byelorussian episode.
Cheers

AFAIK, he started the process of troops formation of The Byelorussian Rada and for some time resisted to the Reds on that front, rihgt before final evacuation to Poland and joining Polish Army.
 

MRAKoris

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StephenT, did you consult this site?

http://www.firstworldwar.com/bio/commanders.htm


There are several descriptions of Russian Imperial Generals, nicely done.

BTW, i tend to think that Yudenich and Brusilov in the Czarist Russia should have the maximum skills possible. What did the do against Austrians and Turks is just unbelievable amazing!:)
 

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Originally posted by Allenby
Thanks. Taking the piss always wins me over. :confused: Besides, I think Vulture wrote the Austro-Hungarian leader list.

yeh well, im always offensive, sorry ;)
wasnt beein serious tho, the work you do is incredible and i cand wait for the mod to finish :)

Originally posted by Allenby
Well Haig won on the Western Front, Conrad won....

...Tarnów - Gorlice, Montenegro, Flitsch - Tolmein (Caporetto)

ofc there was always german involvement, but guess what the germans wouldve done in belgium w/o austro-hungarian heavy fortress ordnance
when im in the war archive again next week ill look up who really created the caporetto plans, as far as i know, the operational plans were done by the sucessor of Generalmajor Metzger, who was Chief of the k.u.k. operations in italy until the 2nd AOK.


Originally posted by Allenby

At the start of the war, he concentrated all his efforts on trying to crush Serbia, therefore neglecting the Russian front, in which he relied upon the Germans to hold back the Russians, even when told that they would implement the Schlieffen Plan. Conrad then decided on a strange compromise whereby several Austrian divisions would stay on the Serbian front before going to the Russian front to fill the gaping hole he had left. Potiorek on the Serbian front wrote those troops into his invasion plan, only for Conrad to take them away and then transport them to the Russian front at the speed of a bicycle, whereby he took the offensive against the Russians, even though he was outnumbered. I think it would be reasonable to say that Conrad's blundering would have ensured Austria-Hungary's destruction in August 1914, if it wasn't for some equally terrible command and execution on the Russian side.



actually, it was a bit different to that :)
when war with serbia was declared, Conrad deployed his troops after Kriegsfall B (Balkan), which means he brought the troops who were supposed to defend the balkan borders + the first operational reserve to the balkans. when russia declared war, the troops of the reserve were already on the move and therefore, and because of the limited train connections the monarchy had at that time, logistically it was easier to unload the troops at the balkans and then reload them into the trains and carry them to Ost-Galizien.

Ofc, Potiorek really fked up and i would give him only 1 or 2 skillpoints ;)

The problem was that the russian mobilisation was far faster than both germany and austria thought and the eastern front had a crisis right in the beginning because the Schlieffen Plan was supposed to be finished in a few weeks fighting and the german OHL was supposed to send forces to the eastern front 6 weeks after the war started. After Tannenberg, Conrad waited some months before the first german reinforces finally arrived from the westfront.


Originally posted by Allenby

Skill 4, even being extremely generous, would be reasonable for him. :)


i still demand 5 with logistic wizard :)

Originally posted by Allenby

Concerning von Bojna and the Isonzo. I was always under the impression that the stalemate on that river was the product, not of brilliant Austrian command, but the inefficiencies of the Italian army (especially artillery), not to mention their not-so-brilliant commander, General Cadorna. Surely the victory at Caporetto was more to the work of Otto von Below - commander of the 14th army?


Isonzo: see top
ofc, the inefficiencies of the Italians was one of the causes that the monarchy had the chance to fight a 3 (later 4) front war (how many did germany have? right: 2)

still if you look at pictures of the isonzo at that time, and maybe walk around in the area you will not see any chance for the soldiers to dig in as good as they could at the western front.
large parts of venetia and the isonzo are stony and the soldiers got easily killed by even the worst artillery, just because they had virtually no cover.
The italians had far more men than the austrians (some Grenzabschnitte in Südtirol were covered by only one brigade against 1-2 whole italian divisions and still the austrians gained ground rather than losing it)
before the declaration of war from germany, the german alpenkorps was only sitting duck far behind the austrian front where austrian soldiers died, it was only fair that in 1917 the 14th army paid back some of their debts.


Originally posted by Allenby
Unfortunately, I've never heard of Alexander Brosch :(


http://www.austro-hungarian-army.co.uk/battles/hujcze.htm


ofc there might be some strong patriotistic views in there, but i doubt you see Haig any different :)

[edit: fked up with the quotes, sorry :)]
 

unmerged(11486)

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yeh well, im always offensive, sorry

It's ok, but try to be nice about it.

austro-hungarian heavy fortress ordnance

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about the guns used against the forts? They were Krupp-built 420mm howitzers, designed and built in Essen, Germany. They fired Krupp-designed shells.

I am inclined to not give Conrad a 5, especially not with a trait. Maybe a 4, but not a 5.

Steele
 

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Originally posted by Steele
I am inclined to not give Conrad a 5, especially not with a trait. Maybe a 4, but not a 5.

I'm not inclined to give Conrad a 5 either...skill 4 and an offensive doctrine might be more suitable.

And I doubt that Alexander Brosch will even make it into the Austrian list, seeing as he was a regimental commander.
 

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id be fine with 4 and logistics wizard as long as haig only gets a 4 either (as well as foch, hindenburg/ludendorff and brussilov)

although, if you dont give any one of those a 5 i doubt anyone should get a 5 :)
 

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Hotzendorf same as Haig, Ludendorff and Brusilov? You must be fucking with us.

Haig won the Western front and this directly brought about the German collapse.

Ludendorff's genius won Germany a victory at Tannenberg, where the East Prussian army was outnumbered.

Brusilov, for all of Russia's ineptness, launched an offensive that broke the back of the Austrian army.

Hotzendorf wins a few side shows and grossly underestimates the Russians, beats the Italians and you think he is the same as all of the above?

You are going to tell us next that Conrad is better than Napoleon?

Apologies if this sounds rude, but we will not give Hotzendorf a 5. Ludendorff, Haig, and Brusilov get 5s.
 

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SIB leaders

Code:
Name;ID;Country;Rank;Traits;Skill;Experience;Loyalty;Type;Picture;x
Lebedev;73100;SIB;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Boldyrev;73101;SIB;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Voitsekhovskii;73102;SIB;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Gajda;73103;SIB;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Khanzin;73104;SIB;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Rogovskii;73105;SIB;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Wojciechowski;73106;SIB;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
(Admiral) Kolchak;73107;SIB;1;13;3;0;5;0;kolchak_alexander_sib;x
Kolchak;73108;SIB;1;2048;3;0;5;1;kolchak_alexander_sib;x
Stark;73109;SIB;1;0;2;0;4;1;unknown;x
Grishin-Almazov;73110;SIB;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Matkovsky;73111;SIB;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Diterikhs;73112;SIB;2;9;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Pepelyaev;73113;SIB;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Sakharov;73114;SIB;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Kappel;73115;SIB;3;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x

Kolchak appears twice - once as a naval officer, and again as a land commander.
 

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Makhnovshchina leaders:

Code:
Name;ID;Country;Rank;Traits;Skill;Experience;Loyalty;Type;Picture;x
Makhno;75001;U17;2;17;2;0;5;0;unknown;x
Glazunov;75002;U17;3;0;1;0;3;0;unknown;x
 

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Soviet leaders:

Code:
Name;ID;Country;Rank;Traits;Skill;Experience;Loyalty;Type;Picture;x
Trotsky;74001;SOV;0;3;5;0;3;0;trotsky_leon_sov;x
Vatsetis;74002;SOV;0;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Muraviev;74003;SOV;1;0;2;0;1;0;unknown;x
Egorov;74004;SOV;1;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Frunze;74005;SOV;1;0;4;0;4;0;frunze_mikhail_sov;x
Tukhachevsky;74006;SOV;1;4;4;0;4;0;tukhachevsky_mikhail_sov;x
Podvoisky;74007;SOV;1;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Krylenko;74008;SOV;1;0;3;0;4;0;krylenko_nikolai_sov;x
Kamenev;74009;SOV;2;0;1;0;3;0;kamenev_lev_sov;x
Stalin;74010;SOV;2;2;2;0;4;0;stalin_josef_sov;x
Ordjozenike;74011;SOV;2;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Dzerzhinski;74012;SOV;1;0;1;0;4;0;unknown;x
Blucher;74013;SOV;1;8;4;0;4;0;blucher_vasili_sov;x
Voroshilov;74014;SOV;2;0;3;0;4;0;voroshilov_kliment_sov;x
Kirov;74015;SOV;2;0;2;0;3;0;unknown;x
Vsevolod;74016;SOV;2;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Kojnilov;74017;SOV;2;0;3;0;4;0;unknown;x
Yegorov;74018;SOV;2;0;2;0;4;0;unknown;x
Brusilov;74019;SOV;1;20;5;25;4;0;brusilov_alexei_rus;x
Yeremenko;74020;SOV;3;0;3;0;4;0;yeremenko_andrei_sov;x
Govorov;74021;SOV;3;0;2;0;3;0;unknown;x
Zhukov;74022;SOV;3;4;4;0;5;0;zhukov_georgi_sov;x

I'm sure that this list can be expanded later :)