Leaders & Titles

[Deaghaidh]

Eochaid, where in the world did you find period leaders for all the Irish statelets! I'd like to take a look at those sources for my own gratification. [edit Me stoopid, me not follow link!]

Was the High Kingship claimed by any of them in 1066? or maybe that doesn't count, rather having only 'real' titles?

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Deaghaidh
Eochaid, where in the world did you find period leaders for all the Irish statelets! I'd like to take a look at those sources for my own gratification. [edit Me stoopid, me not follow link!]

Was the High Kingship claimed by any of them in 1066? or maybe that doesn't count, rather having only 'real' titles?

AFAIK the High Kingship was vacant in 1066.

Edit: 1022-72, according to my sources...

 

[Eochaid]

@ Deaghaidh: I didn't find anything: the original list was put together by Boreal_S from Snowball. I am but a tool . As for the website I just linked, all the credit goes to Solitair.

@ Havard: according to this source, there was no known Ard Ri between 1022 and 1088. Not that it makes a difference, since we are only interested by what the situation was in 1066.

 

[Eochaid]

Right now I'm sweating my way through the name of the Irish Kings... Most of the work is about getting the full Irish name, not a (short) Saxon transcript.


I found this very useful website

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Eochaid, thanx for the Irish site.

'Regnal Chronologies' is an eccentric site, but interesting...
http://www.hostkingdom.net/regindex.html

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Eochaid
I found this very useful website

A site I've had bookmarked since 1994.

It has it's holes though...

 

[Eochaid]

Originally posted by Havard
A site I've had bookmarked since 1994.

It has it's holes though...

According to this website, there WAS a Ard Ri in 1066: HERE

Kind of confusing isn't it!

EDIT: just finished the Irish lords!

 

[Nikolai]

Originally posted by Eochaid

TO ALL OF YOU THAT HAVE POSTED HERE​

Duke in Red has required links to prove ALL the changes made. So for those who didn't provide links, could you please provide either a link or some precise* references? I'll do my best to put all the links together and will look some up myself

Thank you!

Kevin

*i.e.: Title of the book, Author, Publisher, Year of Publication, page.

So you want some links? I used google for finding my facts, and used several sites. My main search was this. I am on holyday however, so I hjope it is okay that I don't specify it furter? My parents won't like me to be here too long...

 

[Amadís de Gaula]

All explained by Gorion is so common in Spain that in fact in the spanish forums many (included me) were surprised by the Jimenez thingie.

In fact it was "Jimena" dinasty, but please do not name kings so, use the nicknames provided by Gorion, that´s the way those kings were known. It sounds otherwise ridiculous for us spanish.

I hope this serves for all:

http://www.terra.es/personal2/gabarcag/programas/rparar_1.htm
http://www.unicyber.org/viejo_reino/reyes.html

Note that no King is named Jiménez or Jimena.

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Eochaid
According to this website, there WAS a Ard Ri in 1066: HERE

Kind of confusing isn't it!

That link doesn't say anything about him being High King in 1066 though...

 

[Eochaid]

Originally posted by Havard
That link doesn't say anything about him being High King in 1066 though...

He's in the list of the Ard Ri:

Diarmait MacMáil na mBó, King of Ireland & Leinster

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Eochaid
He's in the list of the Ard Ri:

Diarmait MacMáil na mBó, King of Ireland & Leinster

What I ment was that it doesn't say when he was King of Ireland and when he was king of Leinster. And as I said, that site has it's holes...

IIRC there were several claimants to the High Kingship in this period. He could be one of those?

 

[Eochaid]

Originally posted by Havard
What I ment was that it doesn't say when he was King of Ireland and when he was king of Leinster. And as I said, that site has it's holes...

IIRC there were several claimants to the High Kingship in this period. He could be one of those?

from the fourth footnote in my first post:

According to this website and this website, Dermait MacMail na mBo was Ri of Laigin (1042-1052) and Ard Ri (1052-1072), "Ard Ri" meaning "High King of Irleand."

The second link seems to confirm it. However, I also think that it is doubtful that he could have REALLY secured the title for himself. After Brian Buru, it seems that no Ri was able to do so for over a century.

PS: and besides, it would be more fun not to have n Ard Ri, so all the Ris can fight for the title

 

[unmerged(17991)]

quote:
Duke in Red has required links to prove ALL the changes made.


Vratislav Premyslovec (Wratislaw Przemysl)
Best title: Duke of Bohemia
Current location: Praha
Was born: 1032
Age to game start: 34
Family status: Married, spouse — Svatava Polská (Sventoslava Piast)
Father: Bretislav Premyslovec Achilles (Bretislaw Przemysl Achilles)
Mother: Jitka ze Svinibrodu (Unknown)


Sources:

in English:
http://www3.dcs.hull.ac.uk/cgi-bin/gedlkup/n=royal?royal07200
http://www.american-pictures.com/genealogy/persons/per07223.htm

in Czech:
http://www.wothanburg.cz/premyslovci.html

1) W -> V

W was used until XIXth century, then the spelling changed and it was replaced with V. English and German sources often mishmash that, Czech sources, of course, don't.

2) Premyslovci-Premyslovec

The dynasty's name in Czech is Premyslovci, meaning the descendents of Premysl. Czech historians writing in English or French sometimes use the expression "Premyslid dynasty" or "la dynastie des Premyslides."

The singular form of "Premyslovci" is "Premyslovec." I understood that for the game purposes, you want to have a family name and you want to have the names in the local language, so I proposed Premyslovec, even though it was never used this way - the duke/king used just his first name or his first name + Cesky, meaning "of Bohemia".

In conclusion, I won't be able to provide any sources for Premyslovec, but it still sounds much better than just Vratislav Premysl (two first names).

3) Svatava Polska

This is how his wife was called in Czech (see: http://www.wothanburg.cz/premyslovci.html ). Her original Polish name was, I guess, Swietoslawa Piastowna. (Could somebody from Poland confirm that?)

4) Bretislav Achilles

This is really odd. Please take it out, I have not found any on-line source mentionning this surname.

5) Vratislav's mother

in Czech: Jitka ze Svinibrodu or Jitka ze Schweinfurtu
in German (she was German): Jutta von Schweinfurt
in English: Judith of Schweinfurt


Best,
Vaclav Adam

 

[Czajna]

The same Vaclav Adam, who used to visit Polish forum on eu.pyrland.pl and discuss the problem of Czech culture in EU2? Nice to see you!

3) Svatava Polska

This is how his wife was called in Czech (see: http://www.wothanburg.cz/premyslovci.html ). Her original Polish name was, I guess, Swietoslawa Piastowna. (Could somebody from Poland confirm that?)

Yes, it was Swietoslawa, sister of Boleslaw II the Bold and daughter of Kazimir (Kazimierz) the Restorer.

 

[unmerged(4826)]

Philippe Capet the Fair
Best title: King of France
Current location: Ile de France
Was born: 1052
Age to game start: 14
Family status: Single
Father: Henri Capet
Mother: Anna Rurickid

I believe there is a mistake between Philippe IV and Philippe I.
Philippe I wich is the one born in 1052 is not called "the fair" it is Philippe IV born in 1268. He was called Philippe IV the fair ("le bel" in french).
The mother of Philippe I was also called Anne de Kiev.

 

[unmerged(17991)]

Originally posted by Czajna
The same Vaclav Adam, who used to visit Polish forum on eu.pyrland.pl and discuss the problem of Czech culture in EU2? Nice to see you!

Vaclav Adam at your service, Sir!

Yes, the same Vaclav Adam that dared discuss Czech/German/Polish [ in alphabetical order ] culture in medieval Silesia on Polish forum.

I was quite surprised that nobody corrected "Sventoslawa Piast."
"Swietoslawa vs. Svantoslawa" is just a matter of spelling, but "Piast vs. Piastowna" is a gender issue that we are going to face all through the game.
Definitely, female names should have the right gender; regarding Czech names, a girl called Eliska would be Eliska Premyslovna, or Eliska Ceska, compared to Vratislav Premyslovec or Vratislav Cesky...

Czolem!

 

[Czajna]

Originally posted by Vaclav Adam
I was quite surprised that nobody corrected "Sventoslawa Piast."
"Swietoslawa vs. Svantoslawa" is just a matter of spelling, but "Piast vs. Piastowna" is a gender issue that we are going to face all through the game.

That's probably becouse we usually don't use the name of the dynasty when talking about members of the royal family. It's always just 'Boleslaw Chrobry' or 'Mieszko II', and if necessary 'from the Piast dynasty' or 'the son of someone'. But yes, if the dynasty name is going to be added to the character name, then it should be: 'Piast' for men and 'Piastowna' for women. Besides - we got used to no gender problem in English.

As for the Boleslaw the Bold, I had problems with finding sources in English, but for what I know and found on Polish sites, his statistics should look like that:

Boleslaw II the Bold/the Generous (Polish: Boleslaw Smialy/Szczodry), from the Piast dynasty of course.
Best title: He was coronated in 1076 so maybe Duke of Poland?
Current location: Krakow
Was born: Somewhere around 1040,
Age to game start: something around 26
Family status: He was married somewhere around 1069 with Wyszeslawa, russian princess (though I know nothing about her, I even saw an information saying that the name of Boleslaw's wife is unknown). Well, it won't be a mistake if he's single at the game start.
Father: Kazimir Piast the Restorer (Polish: Kazimierz Odnowiciel)
Mother: Dobroniega Maria Rurickid, probably daughter of Vladimir the Great, or his son, Jaroslav.

 

[Deaghaidh]

Originally posted by Eochaid
from the fourth footnote in my first post:



The second link seems to confirm it. However, I also think that it is doubtful that he could have REALLY secured the title for himself. After Brian Buru, it seems that no Ri was able to do so for over a century.

PS: and besides, it would be more fun not to have n Ard Ri, so all the Ris can fight for the title

I have to agree on this one If you're a Ri, you got a shot at the 'Ard' at this point. I don't suppose we can have a seperate title, High King (with Opposition), as the Ard Ris from the period are usually called, distinct from being a 'real' High King.

 

[stibogis]

HI
I saw that adding son to the norwegian king names was going to be used, I hope that not all the kings in norway will be named haraldson thogh, I do hope they will get their dads name and son added on the end of it does anybody have the answers for me or?