Leaders & Titles

[Eochaid]

@ bgibbard: done. I don't know how Snowball wants to deal with the whole " William de Hauteville"/Guisulf" thing, so I just created a footnote.

@ Stibogis: changed "Magnus Ynglinge" into "Magnus Hårfagre." I created a footnote concerning this issue (and the Oslo thing)

@ Marcus VALERIUS o): I haven't seen the map, so I don't know how they called the province around Constantinople.

@ Gorion: Pamplona it is! Could you give me a link proving thatSancho Ramirez Jimenez's mother was Gilberga Hermesinda of Bigorra and not Ermessendis de Foix? Same goes for Sancha de Castilla.

 

[Styrbiorn]

@ Stibogis: changed "Magnus Ynglinge" into "Magnus Hårfagre." I created a footnote concerning this issue (and the Oslo thing)

That would be wrong. It's like giving the czars following Peter the surname "the Great", just because they descend from him. Why don't you just call him Magnus Haraldsson? Dynastical names were not used like that at that time, but if you necessarily have to have the dynasty name, then add "of the <name of dyn.> dynasty".

 

[Eochaid]

TO ALL OF YOU THAT HAVE POSTED HERE​

Duke in Red has required links to prove ALL the changes made. So for those who didn't provide links, could you please provide either a link or some precise* references? I'll do my best to put all the links together and will look some up myself

Thank you!

Kevin

*i.e.: Title of the book, Author, Publisher, Year of Publication, page.

 

[Styrbiorn]

And BTW, Magnus Haraldsson is counted to the Hårdråde dynasty, not Hårfagre

 

[unmerged(6160)]

On William the Conqueror being either William Duke of Normandie or the Conqueror, there is no link to that, it is just English common knowledge, its a translation thing...

 

[Nikolai II]

http://www.notisa.com/kungahuset1.html - calls the Stenkil line "Westgothian" though

http://historiska-personer.nu/min-s/p88f01c80.html - Halsten's mother's name was Maria. (Anundsdotter instead of Emundsdotter, see below)

According to the same site Halsten was only 16 or 17 years old when he became king in 1067, not 18 in 1066.

http://historiska-personer.nu/min-s/p3126437f.html - most old historians claim that Emund should be Maria's father since he was the king, but Anund is more likely than Emund, or Stenkil had married his own sister.. slightly unlikely, but whatever rings your bell

 

[Styrbiorn]

Originally posted by Eochaid

TO ALL OF YOU THAT HAVE POSTED HERE​

Duke in Red has required links to prove ALL the changes made. So for those who didn't provide links, could you please provide either a link or some precise* references? I'll do my best to put all the links together and will look some up myself

Thank you!

Kevin

*i.e.: Title of the book, Author, Publisher, Year of Publication, page.

Concerning Magnus Haraldsson of the Hårdråde dynasty:
Here: Kings of Norway (in Norwegian)
And in Heimskringla, Snorri Sturlasson, *no publisher*, 1235 AD, Haralds saga Sigurðasonar, parts 98-101.


Edit: and no sources should be necessary to support that Ragnvaldsson is not spelled Rognvaldsson Else: Wikipeda or Historiska personer

 

[bgibbard]

sources for some of my genealogy assertions

For the situation with respect to Boniface of Tuscany, Beatrice of Bar/Lorraine, Matilda of Tuscany and Godfrey the Bearded, see "Europäische Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der Europäischen Staaten" (often just called "Europäische Stammtafeln", or even just "ES"). There are several editions, the one I got my information from was the older one edited by Frank, Baron Freytag von Loringhoven. There is also now a newer edition edited by Schwennike (spelling? first name?) but which I don't have good access to. From the Loringhoven edition, my information came from Vol. 1, Table 11, and Vol. 1, Table 12. On the web I can also see some of this information at http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matilda_of_Tuscany.

For Berthold of Zähringen, see ES Vol. 1, Table 9. (again, all references are to the Loringhoven edition, the one to which I had easiest access).

For Ernst of Austria (or Babenberg), his parents, and his wife, see ES Vol. 1, Tables 39 and 41.

For Richard of Aversa, and his father, see the genealogical table on p. 334 of "The Normans in Sicily", by John Julius Norwich. The pagination is for the paperback edition from Penguin books.

Another table a couple of pages earlier in the same book gives the name Fressenda to Robert Guiscard's mother.

For the parentage of Udo of Stade we are back to ES: see Vol. 1, Table 22.

The best source I have access to for the situation around the last years of the Lombard dynasty of Salerno is "Medieval European Coinage", Vol. 14 Italy (III) (South Italy, Sicily, Sardinia), by Philip Grierson and Lucia Traviani. See pages 57-58 for the political history of the principality in those years.

 

[bgibbard]

Re: sources for some of my genealogy assertions

Originally posted by bgibbard
The best source I have access to for the situation around the last years of the Lombard dynasty of Salerno is "Medieval European Coinage", Vol. 14 Italy (III) (South Italy, Sicily, Sardinia), by Philip Grierson and Lucia Traviani. See pages 57-58 for the political history of the principality in those years.

Whoops! A typo there. The name of the second author should be "Lucia Travaini".

 

[Havard]

Re: sources for some of my genealogy assertions

Originally posted by bgibbard
For the situation with respect to Boniface of Tuscany, Beatrice of Bar/Lorraine, Matilda of Tuscany and Godfrey the Bearded, see "Europäische Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der Europäischen Staaten" (often just called "Europäische Stammtafeln", or even just "ES"). There are several editions, the one I got my information from was the older one edited by Frank, Baron Freytag von Loringhoven. There is also now a newer edition edited by Schwennike (spelling? first name?)(...)

That would be Detlev Schwennicke: Europäische Stammtafeln. Neue Folge

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Diarmait MacMeil na
Best title: Ri of Laigin (Pennath of Laigin)
Current location: Laigin
Was born: 995
Age to game start: 71
Family status: Married, spouse — Dearbforgail O'Brien
Father: Unknown
Mother: Unknown
---

Isn't this gentleman's family name missing something - 'na' what?

---
Malcolm Dunkeld Caennmor
Best title: King of Scotland
Current location: Lothian
Was born: 1031
Age to game start: 35
Family status: Married, spouse — Ingebjerg of Halland Earls' Mother
Father: Duncan Dunkeld the Gracious
Mother: Aelflaed Siward
---

Now my Gaelic isn't the best but shouldn't that be

Maelcolum Ceannmor

Where did 'Dunkeld' come from?
Duncan is 'Donnchadh'.
I've never seen Aelflaed referred to as 'Aelflaed Siward'. If she needs a title, how about 'Aelflaed of Northumberland' or 'Aelflaed Siwardesdohtor' or some such?

 

[unmerged(10777)]

Here's a link for Gwynedd:
Click Here!

 

[stibogis]

I know what you mean it was normal to write the kingsnames in norway and I think all of scandinavia like that in the middleages. and it is also very hard to find a dynasty name for the norwegian kings, look up in any norweagian encyclopedia and you wont find a dynasty name for this period or the decendants from harald haarfagre, I am not sure why, you are also right that the name of the dynasty probably should be hardraade, and later it changed its name to something else think it was under king sverre, dont know why they were supposed to be related............................. well anyway the son thing as you are talking about is proably the best idea, since that was a part of the kings name, I wonder if it will bee in the game? proably not.....

 

[bgibbard]

Re: Re: sources for some of my genealogy assertions

Originally posted by Havard
That would be Detlev Schwennicke: Europäische Stammtafeln. Neue Folge

Thanks! That's the one.

 

[unmerged(17761)]

Count of Barcelona

Barcelona's nicknames & titles should be in catalan, since it was the language of that territory at that time(as it is nowadays); neither spanish, french nor occitan. So:


Ramon Berenguer of Barcelona el Vell
Best title: Count of Barcelona
Current location: Barcelona
Was born: 1023
Age to game start: 43
Family status: Married, spouse — Almodis de la Marca
Father: Berenguer Ramon of Barcelona el Corbat
Mother: Sancha de Lara

 

[Wulfram]

Originally posted by Eochaid
Constantine Ducas
Best title: Basileus of Byzantium (Basileus of Byzantine)
Current location: Byzantium (Byzantion)
Was born: 1006
Age to game start: 60
Family status: Married, spouse — Eudocia
Father: Andronicus Ducas
Mother: Unknown

Shouldn't this be Konstantinos? Most of the other names don't seem to have been anglicised.

Also, Byzantion is about as accurate as Byzantium, since Byzantion was the original Greek name, while Byzantium was the Latin name. They're both out of date names for Constantinople, though.

Heinrich of Frankonia
Best title: Duke of Franken
Current location: Franken
Was born: 1050
Age to game start: 16
Family status: Married, spouse — Bertha de Maurienne
Father: Heinrich of Frankonia
Mother: Agnes d'Aquitaine de Poitou

This guys best title at the time was surely King of Germany.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/he/Henry4HRE.html

This doesn't give any direct link to Franconia, but it shows his father was Henry and his mother Agnes.

 

[unmerged(8913)]

Re: Re: Leaders & Titles

Originally posted by Wulfram
They're both out of date names for Constantinople, though.

I pointed that out too, but they seemed to say that the location wasn't named for the city, but rather the province.

 

[Eochaid]

Originally posted by stibogis
well anyway the son thing as you are talking about is proably the best idea, since that was a part of the kings name, I wonder if it will bee in the game? proably not.....

Now that you explained it, it just might be...

 

[Eochaid]

I added all the links to the first post. I hope I got everything right...

@ Snuggs: Thanks! Now that you mention it, it doesn't look right. I'll look into that and will post tonight.

@ Paspus: done!

@ Wulfram: Konstantinos it will be! But is Ducas the greek version of the name? I'll change his name as soon as you confirm the spelling for Ducas.

 

[Eochaid]

I found THIS WEBSITE among the links provided on the website Solitair recommended! I'll check it out later.