Leaders gets killed

[MB15]

In HOI1 it was so:An army was encircled and then destroyed by attack but the leader isnt dead,you can take him and put him in command of another army!Even if an army get nuked,their leader survives.I think in HOI2,the leader of an encicled army should die if the army was destroyed,even if an army is getting nuked he should die

 

[Orthank]

It makes some sense but only if you can get some new random leaders, otherwise you might find yourself without any.

 

[Atul]

It makes some sense but only if you can get some new random leaders, otherwise you might find yourself without any.

actually, even the Germans were running low on high ranking generals in '45 due to many being KIA or becoming POWs

 

[GrimReaper]

actually, even the Germans were running low on high ranking generals in '45 due to many being KIA or becoming POWs

...or getting sacked by the wise, all-knowing Führer

 

[unmerged(33169)]

IMHO I think it reflects that in most cases the leaders were evacuated out of encirclement before it's destruction There should be a random chance that they end up captured or KIA, but it shouldn't be the rule. Even admirals used to change ships if their flagship ended up on the bottom, in their case there should be random chance they stay alive if whole fleet is sunk, but if any ship survive engagement, they should live. And you should receive random leaders you can actually promote...

 

[Spruce]

I think the chance for leaders to die from "combat conditions", like a drop off bomb or a fighter strafing a convoy is higher in comparison with encircled army is defeated. I also agree that in most cases, high ranking generals are prefered to be evacuated - it's more to Hitlers stubbornness that many of his staff got captured. A general knows a lot, remember.

Nukes WWII aren't tactical weapons imho and shouldn't become so. So first off all they shouldn't result in the destruction of an army - neither the general commanding it,

but I do like the idea of a leader dying, but the occurence should be rare and replacements should be available,

 

[GrimReaper]

but I do like the idea of a leader dying, but the occurence should be rare and replacements should be available,

During the war in the Desert, leaders were killed or captured on both sides rather often, actually.

There are some conditions that this happens frequently, could be hard to model though.

 

[unmerged(29126)]

FM von Bock died when Hamburg was bombed.
FM Paulus got captured
FM von Reichenau died of a heart attack
Konteradmiral Bey went down with the Scharnhorst
Rommel could have died after being bombed by a fighter-bomber
Numerous Generals were killed due to artillery in NORMAL combat
Even more were taken prisoner.

Yet HOI1-Generals have teleportation-capability.
Even the "A Leader has died"-events didn't work in all cases

Maybe leaders are sacrosanct ???

 

[GrimReaper]

Yet HOI1-Generals have teleportation-capability. :rofl:

:rofl:

Anymore SciFi Tech stuff talk and i will demand that we can develop Star Destroyers in HoI2

EDIT: another example, the Commander of the 11th Army in Russia, Colonel-General Ritter von Schobert, was killed when his plane landed in a Russian minefield. (Therefore Manstein received command of the 11th Army BTW.)

 

[Tachikaze]

As previously stated, in most cases (i.e not when the Führer was in a grumpy mood) generals were evacuated for several reasons. And as for generals running the risk of dying during regular combat, I'd rather not see it implemented. The frustration of loosing for example Heinrici during a two hour battle against suicidal beach attackers on the Atlantic Wall would not brighten my spirits very much at all. Plus, I think most commanders had the sense to stay away from the dangers of combat, they knew their own importance, and weren't very eager to die in the first place. However, I can agree that there should be a small chance in the case of an encirclment, just for the hell of it. Could be fun and mood-setting. Anyway, if you saw a Kesselschlacht coming, you could represent the evacuation by switching your experienced, high-level field-marshal for a lowly major general if you knew you were going to loose anyway. See, simple, huh?

 

[GrimReaper]

As previously stated, in most cases (i.e not when the Führer was in a grumpy mood) generals were evacuated for several reasons. And as for generals running the risk of dying during regular combat, I'd rather not see it implemented. The frustration of loosing for example Heinrici during a two hour battle against suicidal beach attackers on the Atlantic Wall would not brighten my spirits very much at all. Plus, I think most commanders had the sense to stay away from the dangers of combat, they knew their own importance, and weren't very eager to die in the first place. However, I can agree that there should be a small chance in the case of an encirclment, just for the hell of it. Could be fun and mood-setting. Anyway, if you saw a Kesselschlacht coming, you could represent the evacuation by switching your experienced, high-level field-marshal for a lowly major general if you knew you were going to loose anyway. See, simple, huh?

I see your point, and I find it hard to disagree (damn ).

Perhaps Paradox could include more options in the settings?

Possible loss of leaders on/off

...among other things.

 

[Tachikaze]

I see your point, and I find it hard to disagree (damn ).

Perhaps Paradox could include more options in the settings?

Possible loss of leaders on/off

...among other things.

I seriously wonder how many people are going to use that option that case...

"Hmm, let's see, keep leaders, lose leaders. Keep leaders, lose leaders. Hmm..."

 

[unmerged(29126)]

Anyway, if you saw a Kesselschlacht coming, you could represent the evacuation by switching your experienced, high-level field-marshal for a lowly major general if you knew you were going to loose anyway. See, simple, huh?

Just like replacements arriving instantaneously when you click on the "fist" you can insta-replace your leader from one end of the continent to the other. If this were to be removed you could lose leader in encirclements.
Losing leader during normal combat would be really annoying I agree ... but if leaders were lost during normal operations they should certainly be lost in encirclements ... encircled leaders should be barred from being replaced (or have a chance that he or his replacement or both are eliminated in the process).

Let me rethink here for a moment: leaders of destroyed stacks should have a chance of being eliminated aswell. Then the player can decide whether he wants to play by house-rules and let his leader be taken off the roster or wants to play gamey by replacing him with some cannon-fodder. Orrrrrrr, give me an option to "hide/mark/retire" a leader then I could do it manually ...

I prefer an automatic option ...

 

[GrimReaper]

I seriously wonder how many people are going to use that option that case...

"Hmm, let's see, keep leaders, loose leaders. Keep leaders, loose leaders. Hmm..."

"Lose leaders"

Well, at least you have the choice, and if you once think you have beaten the game...

Perhaps it could be restricted to surrounded units. In that case you could just replace your leaders while the AI lets Patton wind up as a POW.

It can live without this feature though.

 

[Tachikaze]

"Lose leaders"

Shut up...

 

[GrimReaper]

Shut up...

No

EDIT: ok, I want spam anymore, enough of this

 

[Tachikaze]

Well, wouldn't it be simple to connect the "change leader" screen with the supply thing. I mean like this, when you can't resupply the unit due to it being encircled, you shouldn't be able to replace the leader. That is, if you've selected the "Lose leader"-option.

(Spam is good, it gives us an extra layer of fat against the harsh winter here in Sweden. )

 

[oxymoron]

Anyway, if you saw a Kesselschlacht coming, you could represent the evacuation by switching your experienced, high-level field-marshal for a lowly major general if you knew you were going to loose anyway. See, simple, huh?

I agree. As long as generals teleport to their command posts and back to HQ, it is useless to model any chances, that they dy or get captured in a lost battle. And don't tell me, that you don't load a savegame, if you loose Rommel or Eisenhower.

oxymoron

 

[GrimReaper]

Well, wouldn't it be simple to connect the "change leader" screen with the supply thing. I mean like this, when you can't resupply the unit due to it being encircled, you shouldn't be able to replace the leader. That is, if you've selected the "Lose leader"-option.

(Spam is good, it gives us an extra layer of fat against the harsh winter here in Sweden. )

:rofl:

Hmm, I see your point, but even if you cant supply an army, you could still send a lone airplane in and retreive the leader. Of course the plane must have sufficient range and so on. Besides, you also need air superiority or a great amount of luck

No, on second thought, skip that. On this game scale we cant micromanage that much. I agree with what you stated

 

[unmerged(29126)]

Theoretically you could evacuate important leader, but everytime a large number of troops are encircled and are likely to be destroyed they are in need of even better leadership.

When 6th Army got surrounded in Stalingrad the officer-staff was not evacuated and the enlisted men weren't left to rot without commanders ...

We as players can see what's coming and want to cut our losses, but once you get your leader into an encirclement-situation you should be punished for lack of stretegical foresight. Therefore blocking the replacement of encircled leaders is a decent approximation IMHO.

Theoretically you could also fly-in (or fly-out) troops ... maybe at 1 strengthpoint a day but you could do it ...