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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

unmerged(12303)

The hated one
Dec 3, 2002
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Leader effects (land,sea and air) 1.06

This post and the next summarises tests by Bylandt, Fiendix and Chas on v1.03b.

EDIT: Now updated to cover 1.06c - some nice changes done and some errors fixed. Most new stuff was placed in the "NOTE" section at the end of this faq.

This post covers land leaders, the next covers air & naval leaders.

Code:
LAND LEADERS
============

Definitions
-----------
Unit - The smallest element - a tank, infantry, ship or plane.
Formation - All the units grouped under a single leader. 
Stack - One or more formations located in the same province or sea zone. 
        In battle, a stack of formations is commanded by their most senior leader.
Div list - The list of divisons that appears in the Combat window

1. Command Penalty Capacity (i.e. the -75% penalty)
---------------------------------------------------
1.1 This is a parameter for each stack. 
    For defences there is only one stack
    For attacks the parameter is worked out separately for each stack.
1.2 For each stack, it is is the capacity of the most senior leader in the stack.
1.3 This capacity may be doubled by an FM (or AM/GA) adjacent or in the same 
    province - if the most senior leader is an FM, then it is self-doubled to 24. 
    The FM does not have to be present at the start of the combat - as soon as
    the FM becomes adjacent to or present at an existing combat, the combat eff 
    values alter accordingly.
1.4 If the total number of unitS in the stack exceeds the Command Penalty 
    Capacity, then the excess unitS in that stack receive a -75% penalty.
1.5 The units receiving the penalty are the lowest ones in the Div list 
    for a stack.
1.6 This means that if you attack with an FM+23 from one direction, and an
    FM+25 from another direction, the combat screen will show 48/48, but in fact
    one of your units will get a -75% penalty.

2. Div list sequence
--------------------
2.1 For attacks with a stack, which formation is on top (i.e. listed first thus is
    not eligilbe for the -25% if stack is overstacked) depends ONLY on which 
    formation was "on top" of the stack when command to attack was issued.
2.2 For a given formation, the sequence of unitS is the same as seen in the 
    tooltip when the cursor is rested over the units.
    This is also the same as the sequence seen in the formation summary window by 
    clicking on the formation (only viewable prior to combat).
2.3 It is therefore perfectly possible for a unit in the middle of the div 
    list to get a -75% penalty if:
    - Its stack is over capacity.
    - Its stack happens to be towards the top of the div list.
    - Then the lowest unitS (i.e the ones in the lowest formationS) for
      that stack will get the penalty, but other divs for other stackS will be 
      below it.

3. HQ penalty
-------------
3.1 All units that do not have a FM (or AM or GA) adjacent or in the same 
    province get a -15% penalty.
3.2 The FM does not have to be present at the start of the combat - as soon as 
    the FM becomes adjacent to or present at an existing combat, the combat eff 
    values alter accordingly.

4. Skill bonuses
----------------
4.1 These may be granted by a leader to, and only to, the unitS in his formation.
4.2 For skill purposes the capacity of a leader is NOT doubled by the presence 
    of FMs, whether the FM is himself the leader, in the same stack, in the same
    province, or adjacent.
4.3 If the number of unitS in a formation is <= capacity (undoubled) of the formation
    leader, then all the unitS in that formation receive the skill bonus.
4.4 If the number of unitS in a formation > capacity (undoubled) of the formation
    leader, NO unitS in that formation receive the skill bonus.
4.5 Where granted, the bonus is 5% for each skill level
4.6 Skill also influences rate of accumulation of experience.
    - Normally leaders add 1 exp point for every x hours elapsed.
    - You get the 1st point after x/2 hours, the 2nd and thereafter after every
      x hours.
    - There are a few idiosyncracies in the calculation system, so in long 
      battles you will occasionally see your experience go up a point an hour 
      early.
    - x:
       Skill 0  every 2 hours
	 "   1  every 2 hours
         "   2  every 4 hours 
         "   3  every 8 hours
         "   4  every 8 hours
         "   5  every 12 hours 

5. Who commands
---------------
5.1 The highest ranking leader commands.
5.2 Where there is more than one equal highest ranking leader, the leader shown
    in command is the one whose divs are randomly highest (of the equal ranking
    leaders) in the div list. See 2 for more detail on sequence.
5.3 It doesn't make any difference which of equal ranking leaders is in command:
    - Command Capacity Penalty (the -75% one) is set by rank only, and 
      separately for each stack.
    - Traits are passed by all leaders to unitS in their formation regardless of
      who commands the battle.
    - Skills are passed by all leaders whose formationS are smaller than their 
      capacity, regardless of who commands the battle.

6. Traits
---------
6.1 These are granted by each leader to, and only to, the unitS in his formation.
6.2 If that leader has multiple Traits, then all these Traits are applied.
6.3 There are no capacity limits on how many units can receive the benefit 
    of the Traits
6.4 Trait bonuses:

    In general the manual frequently refers to effects on combat values, 
    movement etc. which in practice do not apply. Effects shown in the manual 
    that are known not to apply are simply omitted below - the manual is only 
    mentioned where it is unknown whether the effect applies. 
    In particular note that there are no movement effects listed below.

 Defensive Doctrine
    Eff + 10% for defender.

 Offensive Doctrine
    Eff +10% for attacker.

 Panzer Leader
   Eff +10% for Armour/Mech,as both attacker and defender.
    - Manual says blitzes more likely to succeed.
      - Not clear what a failed blitz means.
      - No evidence that it does this, but hard to prove one way or other.

 Logistic Wizard
   Oil and supplies consumption -25%. 

 Commando
   Eff +5% for Mountain, Marine and Paratroopers.
   Eff -5% for all other troops.

 Engineer
   Removes all river crossing Combat Eff effects (only).
   Note:
   - River gives -50% to attacker.
   - Techs in Infantry tree:
     - Portable Military Bridge      +30% river attacks (marines)
     - Amphibious Crossing Equipment +30%    "    "     (marines)  
       Both apply to armour/mech even though in the infantry tree.
   - Techs in Armour tree:
     - Basic    Wading Equipment +3% river attacks (armour)
     - Improved   "       "      +3%   "
     - Advanced   "       "      +4%   "
   - Engineering brigades give +30% river attacks (all troop types).
   - Engineer Trait eliminates all these effects.
   - The modifier will never be >0. Ie if you have an engineer marine their eff
     would not be at + 40 over a river (30-tech + 30-tech + 30eng - 50river = 40).
   - It does not eliminate other effects, e.g. weather, which apply as normal.

 Trickster
   Increases the chance of surprise. If the enemy unit is suprised it gets a -20%
   efficiency modifier.

   
 Fortress Buster
   Halves the attack penalty due to forts.
    - Normally each level of fort reduces attack eff by 9%.
    - With the Fortress Buster, this becomes 4.5%, rounded as appropriate.

 Old Guard
   Accumulates experience at 1/3 the normal rate.
    
 Winter Specialist

            Inf    Arm
   Ice      
   ---
   Normal   -20    -30
   WS       -10    -15 

   Snow
   ----
   Normal   -40    -60
   WS       -20    -30

   Blizzard
   --------
   Normal   -60    -90
   WS       -45    -60

    - The manual and save files call ice 'frozen'. Here they mean the same thing.

Examples of how efficiency is calculated for traits and skill
-------------------------------------------------------------

   If we have:
   - stack 1, attacking from Province 1 in Direction 1
      - FM, skill 3, with Offensive Doctrine and Panzer Leader, + 23 divs
      - LG, skill 2, with Offensive Doctrine, + 2 divs
   - stack 2, attacking fom province 2 in Direction 2
      - G, skill 4, no Traits, + 5 divs
      - MG, skill 1, no Traits, + 10 divs

   Then there are 40 divs. 
   No HQ penalties apply, as there is an FM present.

   stack 1:
    - Command Penalty: 
       - Capacity set by FM at 24 for this stack. 
       - There are 25 units so 1 unit receives a -75% penalty. 
       - This will randomly be either the lowest of the FM divs, or the lowest
         of the LG divs.
   - Skill: 
      - No FM divs get a skill bonus as he has 23 divs and an undoubled 
        capacity of 12. 
      - Both the LG divs get a skill bonus 2x5 = 10%, because an LG has a 
        capacity of 3.
   - Traits: 
      - All 23 of FM's divs get applicable bonuses for both his traits.
         - +10% for Offensive Doctrine.
         - +10% for any armoured/mech divs in his 23, for Panzer Leader.
      - All 2 of LG's divs get bonuses for his one Trait.

   stack 2:
   - Command Penalty: 
      - Capacity set by G at 18 (9 for a General, doubled by FM in the same 
        province). 
      - There are 15 divs in the stack, so no divs get the -75% penalty.
   - Skill: 
      - All 5 of G's divs get a skill bonus of 4x5 = 20%, as his capacity is 9.
      - None of MG's divs get a skill bonus, as his capacity is 1.
   - Traits: 
      - None apply


Appendix
--------
When trying to understand the Combat Eff you see, there are a variety of
factors you need to consider in addition to leaders:

1. Weather
2. Terrain
3. Ministers
    - Several minister types affect Eff.
    - In general effects are shown on the minister screen.
    - However 'Armoured Spearhead Doctrine' (which is a Chief of Army type):
       - Gives +10% eff to armour/mech (whether as attacker or defender)
       - The screen text does not mention this.
4. Difficulty
    Human player eff is adjusted:
      Very easy +20
      Easy      +10
      Normal      0
      Hard      -10
      Very Hard -20
5. Dug-in
   - Stationary troops dig in automatically.
   - Level increases by 1 per day, to a max of 10.
   - Troops (defending & attacking) will continue to dig in 
     during a battle.
   - Each level gives eff +1%
6. Techs
   - There are various techs that influence Combat Eff.
   - The 'modifiers' section of your save file summarises these for 
     each troop type.

Note:

1. There is a minimum of 2 hrs land battle - during which you cant retreat.
2. There is a supply distance modifier. Each unit has a supply depot. This is
   the closest territory that you (or any of your allies) own. For each 133 km 
   over land from this supply depot you get -1 % eff. Over sea its -1% per 33km. 
Max cap is -66%.
3. There is a supply penalty of -20% if your army was not supplied during the last
   24 hrs.
4. During night battles the defender gets a -25% eff modifier. The attacker -50%.
   This can be modified by techs.
5. Dissent reduces eff. by 50% of the current dissent. Ie. 4 dissent causes -2%
   eff. reduction.
6. There is a 50% chance that the weakest unit in the formation/stack will be 
   targeted by the enemy units.
7. Units with 0 org do not fire at enemy units, but will get targeted.
8. Rain reduces ONLY the eff of attackers by -10%.
9. Enveloped units fight at -10% per territory from which attack was made (counting 
from the 2 unit). So if we had 3 attackers the penalty would be -20%.
10. To reduce the effect of logistic penalties with troops that boarded on 
another continent (like australia) you should land the troops in the closest 
ally territory (like the UK) and pick them up again. The supply depot will be 
moved to that territory thus reducing the logistics penalty.
11. The logistics penalty is capped at 66%.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(12303)

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Sea and Air efficiency FAQ

For 1.06c

Original by Chas, Bylandt and me.

Code:
AIR & NAVAL LEADERS
===================

Definitions
-----------
Unit - The smallest element - a tank, infantry, ship or plane.
Formation - All the units grouped under a single leader. 
Stack - One or more formations located in the same province or sea zone. 
        In battle, a stack of formations is commanded by their most senior leader.


1. Command Penalty
------------------
1.1 Air and naval combat capacity limitations (unlike land). 
    - The combat screen does not show any leader capacity, but limits are 1, 3, 9 
      and 12.
    - Exceeding the limits causes a -25% penalty. The Air Marshal and Grand Admiral
      DO NOT double capacity for the sea and air battles. Thus a Admiral with 10 
      units in his formation will have 1 unit with a -25% eff modifier for the 10 unit.
    - There is a -2% efficiency modifier for the whole formation or stack for 
      each ship over 2 in one sea. So if you have 14 ships in one sea zone each 
      ship would get -24% efficiency. Transports do not count for this purpose. 
      It does not matter if  there are 2 formations of 12, you will still get the -2% per unit
     over   2 (even if both were under grand admiral).
    - Transports do not count towards this stack -2% penalty - however they do count 
      towards stack limit (the -25% penalty).
    - For air combat this penalty is -10% per each air unit over the 4th. So 12 air planes
      in one zone will give a total of -74% efficiency (max penalty).
1.2 Note that Air Marshals and Grand Admirals do act like Field Marshals for 
    land combat: 
    - They double the capacity of other land leaders for purposes of calculating
      land command capacity (for the -75% penalty).
    - If an AM/GA starts from more than one province away, initially he has no 
      effect on the land battle. But if flying/sailing, then for any period that
      he is in the same or an adjacent province/sea zone, his effects apply.
    - Their presence (adjacent or same province) will prevent the -15% 
      no-HQ penalty for land battles and they will double command limit.

2. Squadron list sequence
-------------------------
2.1 For attacks with a stack, which formation is on top (i.e. listed first thus is
    not eligilbe for the -25% if stack is overstacked) depends ONLY on which 
    formation was "on top" of the stack when command to attack was issued.

3. HQ Penalty / Base Proximity
------------------------------
3.1 No HQ penalty for air or naval combat (so unlike land, no -15% for combats 
    without an HQ).
3.2 Note: Base proximity - Not a leader effect, but for air combat where the 
    unit/formation in the combat is in the zone that is was based or 1 terrain
    next to it gains a +15% efficiency.
    This is analagous to HQ effects for land combat, but does not require a 
    leader.

4. Skill bonuses
----------------
Similar system to land, different values. Where granted, the skill bonus is 2% per 
skill level.

4.1 These may be granted by a leader to, and only to, the units in his formation.
4.2 For skill purposes the capacity of a leader is NOT doubled by the presence 
    of FM/AM/GA, whether the leader, in the same stack, in the same province, or 
    adjacent. 
4.3 If the number of units in a formation is <= capacity of the formation leader, 
    all units in that foramtion receive the skill bonus.
4.4 If the number of units in a formation is > capacity of the formation leader, NO 
    units in that formation receive the bonus.
4.5 Thus a formation with 13 ships will not benefit from the 2% eff. for
    each skill point the commander has. Furthermore all units will be at an extra 
    -22% for the 11 units in the formation over the 2 limit. Thus it would be better, 
    if you really needed the 13th unit, to put the unit under another commander
   (i.e a ga with 12 ships and eg an admiral with 1 ship). 
4.6 Same general system as land, but different values.
    Skill influences rate of accumulation of experience.
    - Normally leaders add 1 exp point for every x hours elapsed.
    - You get the 1st point after x/2 hours, the 2nd and thereafter after every
      x hours.
    - There are a few idiosyncracies in the calculation system, so in long 
      battles you will occasionally see your experience go up a point an hour 
      early.

    - x: sea
       Skill 0   every 1 hr 2 or 1 skill points are earned
         "   1   every 1 hr 1 or 2 skill points are earned
         "   2   every 2 hrs 1 skill point earned
         "   3   every 2 or 3 hrs 1 skill point earned
         "   4   every 2 or 3 hrs 1 skill point earned
         "   5   every 2 or 3 hrs 1 skill point earned

    - x: air
       Skill 0   every 2 hrs
         "   1   every 2 hrs
         "   2   every 4 hrs
         "   3   every 8 hrs
         "   4   every 8 hrs
         "   5   every 12 hrs

    - All commanders taking part in the battle earn experience. 

5. Who commands
---------------
5.1 The highest ranking leader commands.
5.2 Where there is more than one equal highest ranking leader, the leader shown
    in command is the one whose formation was "on top" when orders were issued.
5.3 Traits are passed by all leaders to their units in their formation regardless 
    of who commands the battle. There is NO cross over effect. 
5.4 Skills are passed by all leaders whose formations are smaller than their 
    capacity (1,3,9,12), regardless of who commands the battle.

6. Traits
---------
6.1 These are granted by each leader to, and only to, the units in his formation.
6.2 If that leader has multiple Traits, then all these Traits are applied.
6.3 There are no capacity limits on how many units can receive the benefit of
    the Traits. So even if you overstack all planes/ships will recieve the benefit.
6.4 Trait bonuses:

 AIR
 ===

 Tank Buster
    Eff +10%, when attacking ground units.

 Night Flyer
    Eff +100 % when fighting air combat at night.
     -Of course after subtracting the night modifier, which depends on your tech
      level.


 Superior Tactician
    Eff +10%, when fighting air battles only.

 Fleet Destroyer
    Eff +10%, when fighting with enemy naval fleet.

 Carpet bomber
    Eff +10%, when strategic bombing.

 Recon Ace :check:
     - The manual says that this Trait increases the probability of air 
       detection of naval fleets.
     - It is not clear whether there are any occasions in which fleets are 
       undetected, regardless of the presence of a leader with this trait.

 NAVAL
 =====

 Superior tactician
    Eff +10% 

 Sea Wolf :check:
    - Eff +10%, for all Subs in the stack. 
    - Testing shows that this trait does ?significantly? increase the likelihood of 
      detecting other naval units in the same sea zone. Not known by how much.

 Spotter:check:
    Testing shows that this trait does ?significantly? increase the likelihood of 
    detecting other naval units in the same sea zone. Not known by how much. 

 Blockade runner :check:
    Testing shows that this trait does ?significantly? decrease the likelihood of 
    being detected by other naval units in the same sea zone. Not known by how 
    much.

[QUOTE=Math Guy]If I understand correctly, Blockade Runner reduces enemy 
detection, but it does not reduce YOUR detection.  If there is detection by 
either side, there is a battle.  The fact that you detected and not the other 
side should also help with surprise.

Because detection chance goes up in large sea zones, the Blockade Runner 
really works best in small coastal zones that can be crossed quickly, when 
there's a large enemy fleet floating around there, and you just HAVE to get 
that unit out.  But in the long run, if the ocean is full of enemy convoys and 
task forces, nothing's going to work for long.  The Blockade Runner only
 delays the inevitable.

By the way, the only reason detection chance goes up in large sea zones is 
because it takes longer to cross them, thus more hourly detection tests. [/QUOTE]


Carrier doctrine: each level adds a +10% efficiency to carrier units in the group.

NOTE: - There is a 50% chance that the weakest unit in the formation/stack will be 
        targeted by the enemy units.
      - Units with 0 org do not fire at enemy units.
      - Transports do not count towards the -2% rule but still count as overstacked 
        for command purposes (i.e. if you have an admiral - 9 command - with 9 
        crusiers and one transport - one of the units will be at -25% efficiency).
        If you have a ga with 16 ships (12 + 4 transports) there will be 
        only a -20% penalty for the 12 ships and -45 for the transports.
      - There is a minimum of 3 hrs sea battle - during which you cant retreat.
      - Ally ships in the same sea zone do not count towards the -2% rule, but do 
        as overstack for command limit purposes. i.e. a commander with a command 
        limit of 3 with 3 ships will be at 98% efficiency - if an ally were to send 
        one ship into the battle with a leader that has command limit 1 or 3 then that 
        1 ship would be at -27% eff (unless you had a better commander that could take over).
      - Dissent reduces eff. by 50% of the current dissent. Ie. 4 dissent causes -2%
        eff. reduction.
      - Computer does not seem to suffer any night penalty (air).
      - Defender does not suffer a night penalty (air).
      - The max penalty for overstacking units in one zone is -74%.
      - The AI is not affected by the air-stacking penalty.
 
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