LBX and UAC scatter system?

[BalordaZul]

I saw this briefly talked about on the stream and by some people on the forums. On how the weapons are going to act and snub PPC might fall into this topic as well. I wanted to start this off in a clear location so the information is easy to find. Mitch did mention to bring this to the forums so here we are.

So what do you all think, should the scatter be handled in the same way as SRM or do you have something else in mind?

 

[Packrat]

For LB-Xs and the SNPPC (as much as I'd prefer the latter as a "slug" weapon), I'd use the same clustering mechanic as LRMs, but with different tables depending on how far you are from your target. At very close range, grouping would be high enough that you'd commonly get all clusters in the same location, and at very far distances there would be little in the way of grouping. Most of the time, though, you'd get something in between those two extremes. Maybe 5 different tables to give decent granularity without getting overwhelming?

For UACs, I'd use the SRM mechanic with a recoil penalty on the second shot.

 

[BalordaZul]

I do agree with the UAC having some link of recoil mechanism tied to it. Possibly the second shot has a the highest chance to hit a surrounding table location of the first hit vs hitting the same location as the first shot. So when you do get that second hit show up in the same as the first it is a happy event. Also clearly the head always has it's own modifier.

The Snub seems to be designed as a fairly tight and consistent star spread. It would be nice to keep that play with clearly range being the primary tactic for that weapon. As it is a energy weapon with no recoil compared to the other chemical based weapons of ballistics and missiles a fairly consistent accuracy falloff table based on range feels fitting.

I would like to see the LBX (HBS only uses scatter shot) be very random on the hit locations especially with the larger shot values of the different sizes.

Lastly we don't know the time HBS has to really do anything new or different with this system on how the hit values work. IF they can and have time to create some interesting character for these weapons that would be great. If not then maybe in BT2 or that magical patch known as "Someday".

 

[Doctor Machete]

For the snub and LBX I bet on a similar system to LRMs, with same tables and same everything but the multipliers applied to the table. If instead of the 8x/4x used with LRMs you use a 16x/8x multiplier (primary/adjacent) now shots would be much more focused, for example. But I don't think those values will change depending on range. Look at other weapons and systems, you don't see that kind of complexity. NARCS just add 25% to damage, UACs cannot jam and so on.

For the UACs I'm not so sure, clustering would still make sense but they mentioned recoil, so that's where the penalty is going to be, it would seem. Perhaps an acc penalty for the second shot and another one (bigger than usual) for the next turn salvo (plus the one for the second shot). So the first time you fire you'll get a moderate penalty with the second shot that you can ignore with max stats, but if you fire again next turn you will not be able to completely ignore the penalty even with max stats. You'll need extra equipment for that...

 

[Jamey]

For the snub and LBX I bet on a similar system to LRMs, with same tables and same everything but the multipliers applied to the table. If instead of the 8x/4x used with LRMs you use a 16x/8x multiplier (primary/adjacent) now shots would be much more focused, for example. But I don't think those values will change depending on range. Look at other weapons and systems, you don't see that kind of complexity. NARCS just add 25% to damage, UACs cannot jam and so on.

It would be interesting (and probably not too hard) to give LBX and Snub PPC SRM scattering at long range, LRM in short range, and tighter than LRM in point blank (Support weapon range).

I have no info on what they are doing, but hopefully we will learn more when @HBS_RedMenace gets his DD rewritten so that it will make it through the spam filter.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

...I have no info on what they are doing, but hopefully we will learn more when @HBS_RedMenace gets his DD rewritten so that it will make it through the spam filter.

Turns out it was @HBS_TheBaron (aka Andrew) who had his Dev Diary stuck in limbo. As the Lead for HEAVY METAL, maybe @HBS_RedMenace will have something for us a bit further down the line. : )

 

[BalordaZul]

Oh it would be neat to have a Dev Diary on this topic.

 

[Jamey]

Turns out it was @HBS_TheBaron (aka Andrew) who had his Dev Diary stuck in limbo. As the Lead for HEAVY METAL, maybe @HBS_RedMenace will have something for us a bit further down the line. : )

My mistake. I blame sleep deprivation for my confusion.

 

[Doctor Machete]

It would be interesting (and probably not too hard) to give LBX and Snub PPC SRM scattering at long range, LRM in short range, and tighter than LRM in point blank (Support weapon range).

SRMs have no clustering and shots are not grouped, with or without Called/Precision shot. But if you modify the cluster multipliers (and they are only two numbers for LRMs) you can tweak how tight the shots land. And I'm sure is not difficult at all to do it based on distance, but imo the main reason would be to keep the mechanics as simple as they can.

And also would be nice all weapons had clustering with Called/Precision shots, so for example if you aim at the head, the torsos get increased chances and the legs lowered chances. Because it seems to me that's what many think is happening, and if fact was happening for a while due to a bug (although in an unbalanced way, because it wasn't intended).

And perhaps in the final version the multipliers are fixed but with settings in the json files to allow for different values at different ranges. But this I also don't think will happen. If you look at Snub PPCs from 0-360m the range is named as "optimal", if at 100m you get a benefit then <360m is not optimal, why then having range categories? how would you now the "real optimal" range of your weapons?.