Lazy map design in HOI4

[King Graham I Strongarm]

Since the 1.6 update, the people designing the maps for Hearts of Iron IV seem to be lazy when it comes to historical accuracy, whether it be World War 2 or modern borders. Before 1.6, the states were accurate for WW2 borders, and in some updates, a few post-WW2 accuracy changes were made, but it didn't really change the WW2 accuracy. However, with the 1.6 update, some of the states were changed to have modern borders without regard for WW2 borders. And they didn't even finish the job for modern borders. In Africa, the problems with the modern borders are:

• Basutoland (Lesotho) and Swaziland are still a part of South Africa even though the provinces needed for those states are drawn out.
• Madagascar controls other islands that are still controlled by France or are separate nations.
• Western Sahara stretches a bit too far north
• There is no nation for Cape Verde

And for WW2 borders, the main problem is Cameroon, where part of British Cameroon was made a part of French Cameroon in the 1.6 update. The British section should be split up into multiple states and a new nation be made for British Cameroon, as that would be more historically accurate and could make decolonization a bit more interesting.
For Europe, most of the issues are in Yugoslavia. However, some issues I'd like to mention for WW2 (and, in some cases, modern) borders outside of Yugoslavia:

• Eupen-Malmedy is a part of Wallonia and was a part of Germany until the Treaty of Versailles and re-incorporated in 1940
• Reichskommissariat Ostland controlled the Baltic States, but never Soviet Belarus. The capital was also in Riga. And eastern Bialystok wasn't made a separate state even though Germany incorporated it directly into Germany
• Reichskommissariat Ukraine didn't control Galicia, East Bessarabia (Odessa), or land east of the Dnieper River
• Moldova's borders go slightly too north
• Liechtenstein and Andorra don't exist (though, those are small nations).
• Danzig wasn't directly controlled by Poland until after WW2
• The Generalgouvernment in Poland can't be made with accurate borders, as Germany incorporated Polish Silesia, Prussia, Posen, and some other Polish land west of Warsaw
• Georgia doesn't go far enough west
• Nakhchivan is a part of Armenia even though it was given to Azerbaijan
• The post-war Western occupation zones in Germany and all post-war occupation zones in Austria can't be recreated (Berlin and Vienna were split between all 4 occupying powers, America occupied Bavaria, northern Baden-Wurttemberg, Hesse, Bremen, Salzburg, most of Upper Austria, and parts of Styria, France occupieded southern Baden-Wurttemberg, Rhineland-Palatinate, Tyrol, and Voralberg, the Saar was a separate French puppet state, Britain occupied North Rhine-Westphalia, Lower Saxony, Hamburg, Schleswig-Holstein, Carinthia, and the rest of Styria, and the Soviets occupied the rest)
• The border between Slovakia and Czechia becomes distorted into Slovakia when it gets closer to Poland

Now to Yugoslavia:

• For modern borders, the Serbo-Croatian border is not modern. It's WW2.
• Prekmurje was annexed by Hungary and Ljubljana by Italy.
• South Istria is a part of Croatia, yet the entire region, including Trieste, which was given back to Italy, can either be given to only Croatia or only Slovenia.
• Kosovo's borders are janked up
• In WW2, Italy occupied Western Macedonia and Sanjak, which doesn't happen in-game

For Asia, the Middle East, and the Pacific:

• Bahrain, Singapore, and Brunei don't exist even though they were administered as separate colonies (Singapore was a part of the Straits Settlements, not Malaya) and became separate nations
• Timor-Leste doesn't exist as a country
• The Pacific nations are clumped together even though they became more nations (Palau is a part of Micronesia, New Caledonia is a part of Tahiti, etc.)
• Aksai Chin can't be given to China

Now to the Americas:

• The Caribbean has the same lazy nation problem the Pacific has (though, to not as much of an extent as the Pacific)
• Some states in the US are grouped together (New England, the Virginias, Maryland-Delaware)
• Only one of Canada's provinces (New Brunswick) has accurate borders and 2 have passable borders (Quebec and Newfoundland-Labrador). The rest are wack (Nova Scotia controls Prince Edward Island, Nunavut is too big on the mainland but doesn't control any islands even though it didn't exist until the 1990s (the islands are a part of Quebec in the game), the Northwest Territories extend too far south but doesn't own Nunavut, Yukon is too big, and each of the rest of the provinces lost land the rest of the provinces lost land to one of those).
• Peru's border with Ecuador only came around during WW2 due to a smaller war, yet, is in the 1936 start date of HOI4

Hopefully the map gets fixed in the next update. And why would they go modern but not finish the job, even if it sacrifices historical accuracy or maybe some performance? Yes, the map before 1.6 wasn't perfect, as there were some issues with nations and some colonies that were administered separately were joined together or their borders were messed with, but it wasn't major. Accurate states will not only help the base game with immersion, but might also even help the alternate history side of the game with the same thing. Some of the things might be barely noticeable, while others are more visible.

 

[Emperor_Napoleon]

So you're saying.... you want more alt-history focuses? Excellent, got just what you want! No problem at all.







































/s

 

[Zukhani]

Andorra, Liechtenstein and small Pacific island countries are vital to WW2 game.

 

[JackAlNXT]

And still no mention of the 4-5 Yugoslav villages west of the Danube that Bulgaria occupied. I thought people wanted historical accuracy. Sad.

 

[Jays298]

I think Alabama is part of the mid west US Air zone (or maybe it's Louisiana and Mississippi. Those air zones were weird. And the South East doesn't have many urban tiles, even though it has cities.

I think merging of US states was necessary to provide same sized states roughly for the area.

But on the scale of the map, with Luxembourg being one tile, it would seem the other tinier states wouldn't matter.

I hope HOI 5 has a huge map like Imperator. To me it's kinda small, especially Italy. You don't get a sense of the hugeness of the spaces in China or USSR.

A lot of those places you mentioned just don't factor into most games. Plus for efficiency reasons you want fewer nations.

 

[Metz]

I think Alabama is part of the mid west US Air zone (or maybe it's Louisiana and Mississippi. Those air zones were weird. And the South East doesn't have many urban tiles, even though it has cities.

I think merging of US states was necessary to provide same sized states roughly for the area.

But on the scale of the map, with Luxembourg being one tile, it would seem the other tinier states wouldn't matter.

I hope HOI 5 has a huge map like Imperator. To me it's kinda small, especially Italy. You don't get a sense of the hugeness of the spaces in China or USSR.

A lot of those places you mentioned just don't factor into most games. Plus for efficiency reasons you want fewer nations.

HoI3 map scale allowed for more strategic movements.

 

[Áurum]

Since the 1.6 update, the people designing the maps for Hearts of Iron IV seem to be lazy when it comes to historical accuracy, whether it be World War 2 or modern borders. Before 1.6, the states were accurate for WW2 borders, and in some updates, a few post-WW2 accuracy changes were made, but it didn't really change the WW2 accuracy. However, with the 1.6 update, some of the states were changed to have modern borders without regard for WW2 borders. And they didn't even finish the job for modern borders. In Africa, the problems with the modern borders are:

• Basutoland (Lesotho) and Swaziland are still a part of South Africa even though the provinces needed for those states are drawn out.
• Madagascar controls other islands that are still controlled by France or are separate nations.
• Western Sahara stretches a bit too far north
• There is no nation for Cape Verde

And for WW2 borders, the main problem is Cameroon, where part of British Cameroon was made a part of French Cameroon in the 1.6 update. The British section should be split up into multiple states and a new nation be made for British Cameroon, as that would be more historically accurate and could make decolonization a bit more interesting.
For Europe, most of the issues are in Yugoslavia. However, some issues I'd like to mention for WW2 (and, in some cases, modern) borders outside of Yugoslavia:

• Eupen-Malmedy is a part of Wallonia and was a part of Germany until the Treaty of Versailles and re-incorporated in 1940
• Reichskommissariat Ostland controlled the Baltic States, but never Soviet Belarus. The capital was also in Riga. And eastern Bialystok wasn't made a separate state even though Germany incorporated it directly into Germany
• Reichskommissariat Ukraine didn't control Galicia, East Bessarabia (Odessa), or land east of the Dnieper River
• Moldova's borders go slightly too north
• Liechtenstein and Andorra don't exist (though, those are small nations).
• Danzig wasn't directly controlled by Poland until after WW2
• The Generalgouvernment in Poland can't be made with accurate borders, as Germany incorporated Polish Silesia, Prussia, Posen, and some other Polish land west of Warsaw
• Georgia doesn't go far enough west
• Nakhchivan is a part of Armenia even though it was given to Azerbaijan
• The post-war Western occupation zones in Germany and all post-war occupation zones in Austria can't be recreated (Berlin and Vienna were split between all 4 occupying powers, America occupied Bavaria, northern Baden-Wurttemberg, Hesse, Bremen, Salzburg, most of Upper Austria, and parts of Styria, France occupieded southern Baden-Wurttemberg, Rhineland-Palatinate, Tyrol, and Voralberg, the Saar was a separate French puppet state, Britain occupied North Rhine-Westphalia, Lower Saxony, Hamburg, Schleswig-Holstein, Carinthia, and the rest of Styria, and the Soviets occupied the rest)
• The border between Slovakia and Czechia becomes distorted into Slovakia when it gets closer to Poland

Now to Yugoslavia:

• For modern borders, the Serbo-Croatian border is not modern. It's WW2.
• Prekmurje was annexed by Hungary and Ljubljana by Italy.
• South Istria is a part of Croatia, yet the entire region, including Trieste, which was given back to Italy, can either be given to only Croatia or only Slovenia.
• Kosovo's borders are janked up
• In WW2, Italy occupied Western Macedonia and Sanjak, which doesn't happen in-game

For Asia, the Middle East, and the Pacific:

• Bahrain, Singapore, and Brunei don't exist even though they were administered as separate colonies (Singapore was a part of the Straits Settlements, not Malaya) and became separate nations
• Timor-Leste doesn't exist as a country
• The Pacific nations are clumped together even though they became more nations (Palau is a part of Micronesia, New Caledonia is a part of Tahiti, etc.)
• Aksai Chin can't be given to China

Now to the Americas:

• The Caribbean has the same lazy nation problem the Pacific has (though, to not as much of an extent as the Pacific)
• Some states in the US are grouped together (New England, the Virginias, Maryland-Delaware)
• Only one of Canada's provinces (New Brunswick) has accurate borders and 2 have passable borders (Quebec and Newfoundland-Labrador). The rest are wack (Nova Scotia controls Prince Edward Island, Nunavut is too big on the mainland but doesn't control any islands even though it didn't exist until the 1990s (the islands are a part of Quebec in the game), the Northwest Territories extend too far south but doesn't own Nunavut, Yukon is too big, and each of the rest of the provinces lost land the rest of the provinces lost land to one of those).
• Peru's border with Ecuador only came around during WW2 due to a smaller war, yet, is in the 1936 start date of HOI4

Hopefully the map gets fixed in the next update. And why would they go modern but not finish the job, even if it sacrifices historical accuracy or maybe some performance? Yes, the map before 1.6 wasn't perfect, as there were some issues with nations and some colonies that were administered separately were joined together or their borders were messed with, but it wasn't major. Accurate states will not only help the base game with immersion, but might also even help the alternate history side of the game with the same thing. Some of the things might be barely noticeable, while others are more visible.

You forgot to mention that even though they changed Polish borders to the modern, post-WW2 ones, it's completely impossible to create post-WW2 Poland in a historical Ironman game, because Soviets own Bialystok and there's no way to give only that state to Poland.

Honestly, I think that devs simply don't know what they are doing anymore. Changing borders to allow for post-WW2 Poland but not realizing it's impossible anyway.

 

[him_15]

My main complaint is Iwo Jima is way too big.

 

[Dalnar]

Quazilion of small states means quazilion of airfields, radars etc. Splitting single state to two or three just to reach historical borders in mostly ahistorical game and ruining balance in the process is certainly not the way to go.

 

[ThaHoward]

"Before 1.6, the states were accurate for WW2 borders, and in some updates, a few post-WW2 accuracy changes were made, but it didn't really change the WW2 accuracy."

"For modern borders, the Serbo-Croatian border is not modern. It's WW2."

Que?

 

[Hoi Neuling]

The Land design is for such a Game which implements the complete World fully well. The Devs change that or that, like they did for the Balkans again. But they won´t destroy her Map only an imimportant Country isn´t in. You have an about 85 to 90 % correctly Map and that´s enough. And it´s WW2, not 2020.

Like I said several times in the Forum loud and Clear that you can´t make the Map Design 100 % like it´s in real. If you get 85 to 90 % of it, you are great, esp. for such games.

There are enough Mods for it which correct some things on the Map. Like the Atlas-Mod and many others. I have used and tested them until 1.9.3, but atm they have to be reworked for 1.10. That´s your only alternative after they get reworked for 1.10.

 

[DaddySugar331]

Quazilion of small states means quazilion of airfields, radars etc. Splitting single state to two or three just to reach historical borders in mostly ahistorical game and ruining balance in the process is certainly not the way to go.

And what is the problem of create a special state modifier that would not allow the construction of airfields above a certain level in small provinces? This game is about the WWII, but you can't make historical occupation zones and post-war borders. Seriously? Is this a joke?

Let's add the ugly and crooked Kosovo that didn't even exist until July 1945, but don't get the borders right for Macedonia, Slovenia and Croatia. Brilliant.
Moreover, even developers focusing on modern borders, they don't allow me to make them. As a result, I can't make modern borders, occupation zones and post-war countries. Excellent.

 

[GSS_]

Quazilion of small states means quazilion of airfields, radars etc. Splitting single state to two or three just to reach historical borders in mostly ahistorical game and ruining balance in the process is certainly not the way to go.

Right now there're mods that split states or even create new ones like Danzig. In my experience never was a problem. The only thing that comes to mind is for performance reasons, as the map cannot be as detailed as Imperator or CK2 because it includes the whole world, but for some reason it is not more detailed than in EU4.

 

[Jays298]

Right now there're mods that split states or even create new ones like Danzig. In my experience never was a problem. The only thing that comes to mind is for performance reasons, as the map cannot be as detailed as Imperator or CK2 because it includes the whole world, but for some reason it is not more detailed than in EU4.

I suspect (could be wrong) that the Imperator map is a world map, but with much of the world hidden.

I would hope with improving technology we could get XL maps.

 

[Vlad123]

I suspect (could be wrong) that the Imperator map is a world map, but with much of the world hidden.

I would hope with improving technology we could get XL maps.

If you want a more better world map, the answer is : lower the graphics of engine. The grand strategy games are games of strategy...not much graphics...if hoi4 have the eu4 graphics for me is ok. If you want the OP graphics, play FPS/TPS...this is my two cent...paradox thing with a grand graphics can have more player...but in a strategy games, the important are the...strategy and hystory! NOT THE F...GRAPHICS!

 

[Jays298]

If you want a more better world map, the answer is : lower the graphics of engine. The grand strategy games are games of strategy...not much graphics...if hoi4 have the eu4 graphics for me is ok. If you want the OP graphics, play FPS/TPS...this is my two cent...paradox thing with a grand graphics can have more player...but in a strategy games, the important are the...strategy and hystory! NOT THE F...GRAPHICS!

I wasn't really talking about graphics (though better is better).

I was talking about the size of the map and therefore the increase in the number of combat tiles.

 

[Vlad123]

I wasn't really talking about graphics (though better is better).

I was talking about the size of the map and therefore the increase in the number of combat tiles.

I know, I know ... but if the graphics are "less perfect" the computer makes less effort, that is there can be more tiles on the map ... that is, ask yourself why the pixelated games (like rimworld or similar) can have low grapichs TONS of on-screen stuff and high-graphics games no

 

[Crucayd]

I know, I know ... but if the graphics are "less perfect" the computer makes less effort, that is there can be more tiles on the map ... that is, ask yourself why the pixelated games (like rimworld or similar) can have low grapichs TONS of on-screen stuff and high-graphics games no

Meh.

You're right - kinda...

Adding more tiles and/or nations (and other similiar stuff) would primarily put strain on the CPU. One could argue that the GPU would thus have less "headroom" as the increased processing load could turn the CPU into a bottleneck. Given the kind of workload currently needed to run the game properly, the processor probably already is the bottleneck. Sooooo, yeah. Nah.

As of this point, HOI does not really use CPUs in an efficient way and quite some optimization has to be done. With even more stuff going on, the majority of players could not witness the end of WWII before growing tired of waiting for the game to catch up with computations. I would argue thats more of a priority right now, as i myself, often get annoyed by the time it takes to do anything, really.

 

[Vlad123]

Meh.

You're right - kinda...

Adding more tiles and/or nations (and other similiar stuff) would primarily put strain on the CPU. One could argue that the GPU would thus have less "headroom" as the increased processing load could turn the CPU into a bottleneck. Given the kind of workload currently needed to run the game properly, the processor probably already is the bottleneck. Sooooo, yeah. Nah.

As of this point, HOI does not really use CPUs in an efficient way and quite some optimization has to be done. With even more stuff going on, the majority of players could not witness the end of WWII before growing tired of waiting for the game to catch up with computations. I would argue thats more of a priority right now, as i myself, often get annoyed by the time it takes to do anything, really.

I remember badly, or, like eu4, hoi4 of a quad core, can it only use one processor?