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Isaac Brock said:
I think that branching the mod is a very bad idea. As has been noted there are very few people contributing as is, and to have them split their effort into two mods makes no sense at all. Not to mention complicating life even further for people who show up and want to contribute.
I've been misunderstood on this. All I want to see, is Jester's work continue to be downloadable i.e. we keep 1.24 downloadable, but stop new releases on it. That way, those who aren't concerned with keeping up with the official release, can still make easily implementable mods for it (even if the implementations have to wait). Meanwhile, those concerned with keeping it compatable with the official release can 'de-beta-fy' 1.24, and make subsequent releases appropriately.

But in light of Johan's new remarks...I say we keep plodding on with how it is and focus on what we have been focusing on.

Beta all the way. 1.08 will be here soon.
 

Ktarn

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The new tags are just the tip of the iceberg really. If the mod is developed based on the beta, it wont work as designed under 1.07.

The most important changes:
-Removecot.
-Peace lockup fixed.
-Improved AI.
-Census tax revised.
-Revoltrisk is now on a yearly basis instead of a monthly basis.
-Revoltrisk now modifies provincial taxes and production.
-Warexhaustion changed.
-DP effects revised.
-Ortodox, chinese and moslem techgroups improved.
-Religious modifier on stability changed, and various other religious effects changed as well.
-Increased technology costs.
-Events can target current emperor.
-100 new tags.

All this makes the beta handle quite differently than 1.07. My impression is that currently the most important part of this mod is tweaking it, so the above changes are even more important.
I havent seen any posts to the effect that they wont contribute due to the mod requiring the beta patch. If there are any, I doubt that their contribution would be greater than eventual changes that has to be done once 1.08 is released.
Arent all the new tags a godsend? Hasnt the lack of tags been one of the limiting factors in this mods development?

Did I mention that the beta is more stable than 1.07?
 

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Ktarn said:
Arent all the new tags a godsend? Hasnt the lack of tags been one of the limiting factors in this mods development?

Actually, I was thinking of something more akin to a headache. I mean now we'll need to review every setup and see if we were just skimpy with tags in that area (which we were :p ). Then that'll lead to new setups and new testing and new crutch events. So while overall having new tags are great, its going to take a lot of work to accomodate.

Besides, it was only until fairly recently that the tag crunch became such an issue.
 

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Ktarn said:
The most important changes:
-Removecot.
-Peace lockup fixed.
-Improved AI.
-Census tax revised.
-Revoltrisk is now on a yearly basis instead of a monthly basis.
-Revoltrisk now modifies provincial taxes and production.
-Warexhaustion changed.
-DP effects revised.
-Ortodox, chinese and moslem techgroups improved.
-Religious modifier on stability changed, and various other religious effects changed as well.
-Increased technology costs.
-Events can target current emperor.
-100 new tags.
Quite a lot. :)
CK will be out pretty soon, within months, and with it 1.08. The betas contain loads of improvements as the list shows, many goodies for modders. I think we should use the urge among people here to use all the new things while they are new, not hold people off and let interest cool down. I'm prepared to sacrifice those thing Isaac Brock mentions, since it will only be for some months and the double work needed to have it 1.07 compatible is not worth it IMHO.
 

Gaute65

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Norrefeldt said:
Quite a lot. :)
CK will be out pretty soon, within months, and with it 1.08. The betas contain loads of improvements as the list shows, many goodies for modders. I think we should use the urge among people here to use all the new things while they are new, not hold people off and let interest cool down. I'm prepared to sacrifice those thing Isaac Brock mentions, since it will only be for some months and the double work needed to have it 1.07 compatible is not worth it IMHO.

Johans word when CK will be out:
Our plans is to go "gold" in the beginning of March. Fredrik knows better how fast it takes to print and ship it, but I doubt it will reach you later than the end of march/early patril.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130826 :)
 

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Ktarn said:
The new tags are just the tip of the iceberg really. If the mod is developed based on the beta, it wont work as designed under 1.07.

The most important changes:
-Removecot.
-Peace lockup fixed.
-Improved AI.
-Census tax revised.
-Revoltrisk is now on a yearly basis instead of a monthly basis.
-Revoltrisk now modifies provincial taxes and production.
-Warexhaustion changed.
-DP effects revised.
-Ortodox, chinese and moslem techgroups improved.
-Religious modifier on stability changed, and various other religious effects changed as well.
-Increased technology costs.
-Events can target current emperor.
-100 new tags.

All this makes the beta handle quite differently than 1.07. My impression is that currently the most important part of this mod is tweaking it, so the above changes are even more important.

I have never said that I think the mod should be optimized for official releases only. However, I strongly believe that, until 1.08 comes out, the mod MUST function with 1.07. The options can and have been used to allow that to happen. This is how we were proceeding until everything was suddenly changed in the 1.2.4 release. I do not understand why the sudden change of course, especially when anything that is hard to implement using options can simply be delayed a little while until 1.08 is out.

I havent seen any posts to the effect that they wont contribute due to the mod requiring the beta patch. If there are any, I doubt that their contribution would be greater than eventual changes that has to be done once 1.08 is released.

And this comment I find fundamentally unfriendly to new arrivals. If the idea is to have a closed club of people who have spent the time to understand all that is going on with the betas and are very familiar with the game, then by all means push this line of reasoning. I'd prefer to have a mod that is much more accessible to people who may know a lot more about history that about the functioning of the game and the monthly incremental changes. The question, to me, is not how current contributors will react to the change, but how it affects potential future contributors. Again I'm not arguing to optimize the mod for 1.07, just that the mod not crash for someone using the most recent supported version of the game. Is it so much to ask that we support the officially supported version of the game?

Did I mention that the beta is more stable than 1.07?
My experience is the opposite. Depending on which beta test obviously. Very little experience with the most recent one, but crashes occasionally for me, whihc the official version doesn't.
 

Ktarn

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Isaac Brock said:
And this comment I find fundamentally unfriendly to new arrivals. If the idea is to have a closed club of people who have spent the time to understand all that is going on with the betas and are very familiar with the game, then by all means push this line of reasoning. I'd prefer to have a mod that is much more accessible to people who may know a lot more about history that about the functioning of the game and the monthly incremental changes. The question, to me, is not how current contributors will react to the change, but how it affects potential future contributors. Again I'm not arguing to optimize the mod for 1.07, just that the mod not crash for someone using the most recent supported version of the game. Is it so much to ask that we support the officially supported version of the game?
I consider myself a potential future contributor, but if development is supposed to occur under 1.07, you`ll see me again after 1.08. What sort of new contributors/arrivals are we talking about here anyway? People new to the game or new to modding the game? Those that know much about history, but little about the game can post their suggestions in plain text, and someone else can code their events. When it comes to new contributers I think having to wade through extremely long threads over three different boards is far worse than some having to switch to the beta.
 

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I can't mod at all, but I've been around for a while, and I still want to make my ideas heard, even if I can't script them myself.
 

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Ktarn said:
I consider myself a potential future contributor, but if development is supposed to occur under 1.07, you`ll see me again after 1.08.
I am not saying that development should occur under 1.07. I think everyone agreed that development would proceed under the beta test. However, I think it is very important that the game work (i.e., not CTD as 1.2.4 does) under 1.07.
 

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Isaac Brock said:
I am not saying that development should occur under 1.07. I think everyone agreed that development would proceed under the beta test. However, I think it is very important that the game work (i.e., not CTD as 1.2.4 does) under 1.07.

I'm with Isaac Brock on this.

The beta should work (i.e. not crash) with both 1.07 and the betas
 

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Ironfoundersson said:
I'm with Isaac Brock on this.

The beta should work (i.e. not crash) with both 1.07 and the betas
Is that even possible now in practicality, not theory?
 

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jinnai said:
Is that even possible now in practicality, not theory?

Khephren said:
Actually,as long as they're using our revolt.txt those new countries won't cause a problem as they'll never revolt. In short, all the new countries do not have to be on there. You can still use the latest beta with the old country.csv as long as there is no chance one of the new countries will exist. That's what will cause a ctd. ( I've tried it, it works )

:)

It's just a question of using options in revolt.txt and in the .inc files. And so long as no new tags are used there is no need for the options at all.
 

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I'm with Isaac on this for the most part aswell...BUT, we all know how close it is until 1.08 BECOMES the official release. So I mean, if we undoe all changes to 1.24, we'll only have to re-do them all in a month anyways.

It was different a few months ago, when 1.08 was out of site. But now it is, so I still maintain we should just roll with it :)
 

Khephren

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What I was getting at, for playtesting Ireland I only added 4 more lines at the bottom of the current country.csv for the 4 new tags I was using. No crashes. It's comparable to the fact that the SPR tag was always available but not in the official country.csv (never caused any problems). Moddir will look to whatever country.csv and revolt.txt we put in and ignore the official one.
 

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ribbon22 said:
I'm with Isaac on this for the most part aswell...BUT, we all know how close it is until 1.08 BECOMES the official release. So I mean, if we undoe all changes to 1.24, we'll only have to re-do them all in a month anyways.

It doesn't have to be undone, just placed within the "options". I really do think it's important that we get to a version that works with 1.07. This is what was agreed to in the first place. And it's pretty trivial to take things out of the options when the time comes. As it stands 1.2.4 is entirely broken on the official game. I find this to be unacceptable.
 

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Isaac Brock said:
It doesn't have to be undone, just placed within the "options". I really do think it's important that we get to a version that works with 1.07. This is what was agreed to in the first place. And it's pretty trivial to take things out of the options when the time comes. As it stands 1.2.4 is entirely broken on the official game. I find this to be unacceptable.
well yeah, and so what you and others want is to 'undo' the bits that aren't 1.07 friendly i.e. the new tag additions. I'm not standing in the way of this, believe me, b/c I agree with you largely. I just want to save ppl some work and say 'screw it for now, on this specific occasion, b/c all those extra tags will be official really really soon anyways'.

You're right though Isaac, and I'm just trying to cheat a bit, really. :)