Latest patch and DLC => Impossible to survive as Morocco

[Blacksmurf]

As the title suggests, it has become impossible to survive as Morocco on an ironman game.
Mamluks, Ottomans and French never want to ally you, something which was possible in earlier patches, meaning you can only ally to Tunis or Tlemcen. The Iberians on the other hand are like the worlds best friends and ally every single game.

I have tested this scenario right now in at least 5 new ironman saves and came to the same conclusion every single time. Once I was able to survive past Renessaince, but that was just because France attacked Arragon.

I used to play as Morocco always on ironman and never had the problems I face right now. Portugal sends a stack of 15, Aragon 20 and Castille 20 meaning it is impossible to fight them even in defensive wars. It also looks like crossing a straight does not give you heavy penalties anymore? I remember being able to kill most of their army crossing easily, which today is not possible too anymore...


Anyone some advice?

 

[makaramus]

oh come on even granada is possible sure thing morocco is possible too -_-

example:Ally tunis, eat south africa while holding strait

 

[Dakka]

I see AI Morocco eat Portugal nearly every game, so I doubt it.

Ally Tunis and another medium sized country. Wait for the Castellan civil war and attack Portugal. Om nom nom. Then you should be strong enough to take on Castille

 

[Blacksmurf]

oh come on even granada is possible sure thing morocco is possible too -_-

example:Ally tunis, eat south africa while holding strait

I think you misread what I said, let me try again. How will you hold strait without any powerful ally ? I get invaded just after the wattasid revolt, which is very early on.

No strait, no Tanger and Fez and no eating anywhere. These invasions did not happen in previous patches I am 100% sure, at least not this early.

When the Iberians set one toe in Africa it is GG since there is no nation or alliance powerful enough in North Africa against all Iberians together(+ most of the time England as well).

I remember I used to ally with France almost every ironmangame, now they all refuse...

 

[Blacksmurf]

I see AI Morocco eat Portugal nearly every game, so I doubt it.

Ally Tunis and another medium sized country. Wait for the Castellan civil war and attack Portugal. Om nom nom. Then you should be strong enough to take on Castille

Tunis is easy to ally, what other medium sized nation is also possible? Mamluk never wants, Ottomans too. France and England are hopeless and the rest is South or Iberians xD. The issue is, they attack me before I can upgrade my manpower and even with castillian revolt, Castille alone still had more manpower and army than me... They were 400 in debt and still joined Portugal in the war, crazy!

I have tries to make rebelions in Portugal but they squash them very fast. Maybe it is just the lucky nations thing that makes them unbeatable? I only play in Ironman and I have for years now never had to start over this many times only to keep getting the same results.

 

[makaramus]

I think you misread what I said, let me try again. How will you hold strait without any powerful ally ? I get invaded just after the wattasid revolt, which is very early on.

No strait, no Tanger and Fez and no eating anywhere. These invasions did not happen in previous patches I am 100% sure, at least not this early.

When the Iberians set one toe in Africa it is GG since there is no nation or alliance powerful enough in North Africa against all Iberians together(+ most of the time England as well).

I remember I used to ally with France almost every ironmangame, now they all refuse...

tunis again... dont ignore their strenght I know you look to them as if they are free land but they are strong almost equal to you. with their alliance you can fight portugal and castile at same time. I know because I rembember that once I underestimated them and fought them at at fez... I was defeated so hard that I had to restart entire campaign.
ally with tunis and defend your mountain forts.

 

[Dakka]

Tunis is easy to ally, what other medium sized nation is also possible? Mamluk never wants, Ottomans too. France and England are hopeless and the rest is South or Iberians xD. The issue is, they attack me before I can upgrade my manpower and even with castillian revolt, Castille alone still had more manpower and army than me... They were 400 in debt and still joined Portugal in the war, crazy!

I have tries to make rebelions in Portugal but they squash them very fast. Maybe it is just the lucky nations thing that makes them unbeatable? I only play in Ironman and I have for years now never had to start over this many times only to keep getting the same results.

Try the Italians. They are deceptively powerful despite their size. The other Mahgrebs and West Africans can also give you number. Play defensively. Attack them when they are sieging mountain forts, defend the strait, everything you can do to wear them down. Hold out long enough for Aragon to get aggressive on them and counterattack

 

[Dakka]

tunis again... dont ignore their strenght I know you look to them as if they are free land but they are strong almost equal to you. with their alliance you can fight portugal and castile at same time. I know because I rembember that once I underestimated them and fought them at at fez... I was defeated so hard that I had to restart entire campaign.
ally with tunis and defend your mountain forts.

Not to mention that the Moroccan-Tunisian fleets are often a good match for the Iberians. Especially if you roll and good admiral and pick them off in small pieces

 

[makaramus]

also another strategy: if england somehow pull portugal into some war with france portugal may not accept to join to support castile . this has low possibilty but if this happen you can dow castile and put them outside of game for some time and later reconquer your land from portugal while castile /portugal alliance still broken . by doing this moment they really each other you will be strong enought to defeat alone

 

[Blacksmurf]

I will try Italians and let you know how it went tomorrow. What really destroys diplomacy is the fact it makes more sense now to ally christian europeans instead of muslim arabs. Mamluks and Ottomans should be a 100% yes for Morocco alliance just like iberians have 100% succes chance between each other. The "too far away" penalty should be reduced and more diplomatic relations should be made possible. Now I see Mamluks allied with useless nations while I am not able to do so because of this limitation. It is good pdx fixes their AI, but the game should stay fun.

I have less fun now with it than I had 2 years ago in all honesty, just because of the off balance sometimes.

 

[Blacksmurf]

also another strategy: if england somehow pull portugal into some war with france portugal may not accept to join to support castile . this has low possibilty but if this happen you can dow castile and put them outside of game for some time and later reconquer your land from portugal while castile /portugal alliance still broken . by doing this moment they really each other you will be strong enought to defeat alone

Thanks for the reply. I like you all hinting what to do, but most tips are just praying event X or Y happens so the Iberians end up divided or in civil war. When none of these happen, like in my games, it is literally over and out when they decide your time has come.
In terms of own tactic, I dont read much? Ally Italians is perhaps the only one I havent tried yet, all the rest is just hoping on a certain situation to occur in your game. If it doesnt, you have to restart.

 

[Dakka]

Thanks for the reply. I like you all hinting what to do, but most tips are just praying event X or Y happens so the Iberians end up divided or in civil war. When none of these happen, like in my games, it is literally over and out when they decide your time has come.
In terms of own tactic, I dont read much? Ally Italians is perhaps the only one I havent tried yet, all the rest is just hoping on a certain situation to occur in your game. If it doesnt, you have to restart.

Well, you are a nation that’s spotlight in history at this time is being a terrorist taking on the leading superpower of the age... it’s not something that should be easy. Just because Morocco is big on the map doesn’t mean it is powerful or guaranteed success.

 

[Rainbow Mirage]

You could also restart untill you see Aragon rival Castile at the start. Then you can improve relation with them + rival Castile.

 

[Blacksmurf]

It is just an effect of France nerf. Before, France would always wreck the Iberians in my game, making my life a lot easier. This doesn't happen anymore making them free to do what they want in Africa. Maybe if I play without lucky nations I could manage to fend them off. Things to try for tomorrow!

Thanks for the tips and advice everyone, have a good night.

 

[makaramus]

Thanks for the reply. I like you all hinting what to do, but most tips are just praying event X or Y happens so the Iberians end up divided or in civil war. When none of these happen, like in my games, it is literally over and out when they decide your time has come.
In terms of own tactic, I dont read much? Ally Italians is perhaps the only one I havent tried yet, all the rest is just hoping on a certain situation to occur in your game. If it doesnt, you have to restart.

if tunis didnt rival you its not rng based you can defeat castile + aragon with tunis alone thanks to even your capital is mountain

 

[Viktor Vaughn]

You've got potential to be more powerful financially than portugal, at least before colonialism. you've got that gold province so dev it to death. use mercs take crazy loans, and fight your wars defensively.

 

[Ironside121]

Why does everyone complain that the game is impossible as smaller nations because you can't ally the big bad guy. That shouldn't be happening every damn time and it's kinda sad that that is the extent of your ability in the game. There are other ways to win.

 

[Bouchart]

I have seen AI Morocco eat Iberia, form Andalusia and become a Great Power this patch.

 

[Dakka]

Why does everyone complain that the game is impossible as smaller nations because you can't ally the big bad guy. That shouldn't be happening every damn time and it's kinda sad that that is the extent of your ability in the game. There are other ways to win.

I know, right? It’s been this way since Cossacks and people still don’t get it...

 

[PhoenixG]

What I did in my Morocco run, was to eat Tlemcen and Tunis. After I ate Tunis I was close enough to ally Ottomans.
Although I still don't understand how you can't defend against Portugal+Castile with all the forts mountains you have? If you ally Tunis and build 1-2 extra heavy ship at start of the game you'll control the straight. Let a group of their army over the straight, block it off and stackwipe it in your mountain forts.
Also remember in the early your units (muslim) are stronger than theirs (western)