Late game trade is the most annoying part of the game

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Hadar

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Not sure what is the current meta, but I always aim at laissez-faire and free trade. At the beginning of the game, when I am bureaucracy and convoy limited, I establish only the most critical import trade routes. But when I grow enough and have enough convoys I just import everything that is possible and I don't bother with exports routes (unless some good is -75% which does not happen often, because AI will use theirs convoys to import my goods). And there is point in the game when trade just becomes mindless clicking in following order:
  1. Pause the game.
  2. Annul all inactive and unprofitable trade routes.
  3. Establish EVERY single import route that has green numbers (which is extremely lags the game after some point).
  4. Unpause the game.
  5. Rinse and repeat (preferably as often as possible).
And it is so tedious. And I understand if I had a command economy but mid- to late- game I am laissez-faire and free trade combo, I should not be even allowed to influence trade that much. Not sure what would be perfect but what I would imagine be a better trade system:
  • isolationism - no trade allowed (or only extremely limited trade allowed by establishing manually trade routes),
  • mercantilism - you cannot import more than you export (it could be, your export value must e.g. 25% bigger than your imports value),
  • protectionism - your import taxes must be higher than export taxes,
  • free trade - you have no input on trade expect free trade agreements and embargoes (establishing embargoes should give you penalties to industrialist opinion of you)
  • command economy + protectionism (or separate law called "commanded trade" or something like that) - basically how trade works right now

And unless you are isolationism or commended trade player should not manually establish trade routes. Instead player should have the option to define following values:
  • import duties
  • export duties
  • import quotas
  • export quotas
And trade volume should generate cost in bureaucracy. Unless free trade then trade is bureaucracy free but you cannot change above values.

And then, probably the most complicated part to implement: trade routes are established automatically maximizing income of traders. And preferably trade routes should work both ways - e.g. there is extremely profitable good to import from oversees, but to do not have empty ships one way then merchants would take with them anything that take can sell on the way, even with marginally small profit (modern example, exporting trash is not commercially viable, but because Western economies import way more from East Asia than they export, so exporting trash generates almost no cost, because otherwise ships would be empty one way).

But otherwise: just give me button "import everything that is possible and economically viable and automatically cancel all routes generating loses).

There could be even three additional buttons per good:
  • automatically import
  • automatically export
  • automatically cancel unproductive routes
I would be more clicking than "import all" but it would give a little more flexibility to more protectionism minded players. :p
 
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PossibleTango

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I pretend trade doesn't even exist after a certain point since it doesn't really contribute much compared to how much you're producing and too micromanagement heavy.
 
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An "enact all profitable trades" button would be interesting, but I'd rather have an "enact all profitable trades with productivity > X" and you're able to choose X. Or better a place where you can set that rule to happen automatically to a pre-chosen list of goods.

It's so easy to miss great trade routes because the suggestions are often nonsense, since they don't depend on profitability but on good balance.
 
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TheHostName

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So i do protectionism and put everything on "protect domestic supply" I know what i want to sell. I know what i will need. I maybe add more nations to those imports or sell orders. Otherwise I ignore.

I wish protectionism tarifs would be higher. Could really discouraged the ai from buying my stuff up when i dont want to.
 
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Hadar

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I pretend trade doesn't even exist after a certain point since it doesn't really contribute much compared to how much you're producing and too micromanagement heavy.

In my current UK campaign, 1922 and I have 4 billion GDP I import:
  • 26.1K fabric
  • 33.8K wood
  • 27.3K meat
  • 7.49K sugar
  • 7.38K fish
  • 3.02K wine
  • 3.39K silk
  • 1.62K hardwood
  • 1.17K oil
Even though I have maxed all resources industries and agriculture some time ago. I also import high quantities of other goods, which I could produce, but because there is no easy way to find home many unemployed and and how many vacant jobs there are (both per each state) it is hard to determine where to build the next 51 workshops, so late game I usually just build 1 of each industry in every state and leave it on auto expand, so unfortunately there are some goods with market price higher than base price (glass, transportation, luxury furniture, luxury clothes, porcelain radios, tools, engines and electricity). But currently I have only 2 goods with gold coins icons, that is oil and hardwood. For me late game is basically invading everywhere that there can be found oil. Currently I have 63.8K sell orders and 154K but orders with balance equal to -90.2K, and I am in shortage probably since 1880s, but in my experience it is better to take on chin oil shortages and let the people work in other industries than stick to outdated productions methods.

And in my import all approach embargoes are usually quite hurtful, so I usually not expand much until the oil shortages go out of hand, than I just prefer more oil than being pariah. I have 502 fully staffed oil rigs and I have never enabled oil-fired plants and still I am willing to be responsible for thousands of dead people to get more oil... Even with the newest patch the game is oil shortages simulator. :v
 

Hadar

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So i do protectionism and put everything on "protect domestic supply" I know what i want to sell. I know what i will need. I maybe add more nations to those imports or sell orders. Otherwise I ignore.

I wish protectionism tarifs would be higher. Could really discouraged the ai from buying my stuff up when i dont want to.
Before I enact free trade I also put everything as "protect domestic supply" . I don't really care about AI importing that much, because my "import everything" approach usually depresses prices more than AI trade routes. Otherwise I just out construct my + AI needs, e.g. my population needs 47.2K groceries and AI imports 13.7K but because I produces 61.8K can feed my people and AI.



An "enact all profitable trades" button would be interesting, but I'd rather have an "enact all profitable trades with productivity > X" and you're able to choose X. Or better a place where you can set that rule to happen automatically to a pre-chosen list of goods.

It's so easy to miss great trade routes because the suggestions are often nonsense, since they don't depend on profitability but on good balance.
Te be honest, I don't care about exporting, I prefer that my people have as cheap goods as possible. The only good that I am willing to export is opium - just to make it to expensive to my population to buy it and addict. And I also give my people as much alcohol and tobacco as possible (because those two goods does not have bad effects on my populations' health)
 

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Te be honest, I don't care about exporting, I prefer that my people have as cheap goods as possible.

There's a point where low prices result in an inability to employ more POPs. So, if my textile or furniture factories are struggling, I'll export some to get those prices back to something more reasonable. Going from -75% to -25% price doesn't hurt SoL that much, but it will employ a few million more POPs.
 
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Hadar

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Sooo... never in my games I have suffered from unemployment, my biggest struggle is to find people to work. :D It is maybe I don't do any kind of welfare, only regulatory bodies. On the other hand, until I employ every peasant I don't really care that much about SoL - population seams to be much more sensitive to SoL decreases than the fact they live in subsistence farming for now. ;) Although it is annoying when I get radicals when I my SoL decreases minimally, because I've got embargoed, yet still my poorest province have SoL 5 points higher than any province outside my country. :v

I usually heavily overbuild every province so even one industry will became unprofitable due to imports there will be always another to get a job. This is a reason why I BEG YOU Paradox, give me number of job vacancies in each state in the macro builder so I sea which states are heavily overbuild and which I can overbuild a little more. :D
 
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Aloraand

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Its a side effect of the trade calculation incentivising trade, which makes a lot more trade routes profitable. I don't really agree with your solution of automating trade, having prices under control is important and you don't have to do all low level trades to min max.

I think there was a reddit post about one big trade route being much better than multiple small ones. So what you are doing is not necessarily even min maxing.
 

Hadar

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I don't know if I am min-maxing, my post starts with "Not sure what is the current meta". I just don't see while with free trade enacted I would be even allowed to influence trade. If other players want to manually do everything, then fine, but just give me "I do not care toggle"
 
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What people wearing rose tinted glasses forget IMO is that Laisse-Fair in Victoria 2 was popular because it was way more convenient when playing a big country or in the late game. Not because it was such a good and fun game design.
Since it was really annoying to control-click all the factories to upgrade them all the time otherwise.

Until the iron shortage completely stopped the world economy anyway lol.
Victoria 2 was a lovely game and I had a lot of fun playing it. But please people, stop fooling yourself that it was anything more than a broken mess...
 
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What people wearing rose tinted glasses forget IMO is that Laisse-Fair in Victoria 2 was popular because it was way more convenient when playing a big country or in the late game. Not because it was such a good and fun game design.
Since it was really annoying to control-click all the factories to upgrade them all the time otherwise.

Until the iron shortage completely stopped the world economy anyway lol.
Victoria 2 was a lovely game and I had a lot of fun playing it. But please people, stop fooling yourself that it was anything more than a broken mess...
So it really says something that V3 is even worse.
 
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mursolini

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What people wearing rose tinted glasses forget IMO is that Laisse-Fair in Victoria 2 was popular because it was way more convenient when playing a big country or in the late game. Not because it was such a good and fun game design.
Since it was really annoying to control-click all the factories to upgrade them all the time otherwise.

Until the iron shortage completely stopped the world economy anyway lol.
Victoria 2 was a lovely game and I had a lot of fun playing it. But please people, stop fooling yourself that it was anything more than a broken mess...
So instead, we got unskipable trade micro. The joy...
 
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tom5675

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Personally, I find the most annoying thing about trade is that trade routes can grow too big.

For example, it's fairly common for the goods that are being exported to end up cheaper in the country that is importing them, than the country that is selling them.

There really needs to be a rule that stops trade routes from growing if it would result in the price being lower in the importers country, than the exporters country.

That would stop the AI being able to buy up all my goods, causing my prices to be sky high, while those same goods are dirt cheap in the country that is importing them from me.

I really want an option for higher tariffs, not really for the revenue, just to be able to stop the AI destabilizing my market with excessively large trade routes.

An option to export ban individual goods, rather than individual countries, would also be great.