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markslawson

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Is there any point in researching cap ship hulls after the 1940 version? Heavy cruisers perhaps (especially as its the same tech for lights), but even so it takes a least a year - with lots of bonuses - to build and that's getting a little late to affect much past 43 or so particularly if you want a lot of them.. research the heavy gun stuff and refit? refitting doesn't seem to take long.. Okay, it depends on the situation but late game wouldn't you have to aim for a Light Cruiser, Destroyer, and sub solution? Thoughts?
 

Paul.Ketcham

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Yes and no.

In singleplayer, the AI never builds any real new capital ships (and making capital ships after 1940 is a dubious prospect if you aren't planning on a very long war; the construction time is too long). As a result, the 1936 tech is good enough for most new capital ships (battleships are too slow in my opinion without 1940 tech or a designer speed boost like those of France and Greece), and the Super-Heavy battleship is far more powerful than newer battleships (they do, however, provide very good engines).

1.) Hulls: SHBB is a good tech for fighting large fleets, as it is the best straight-up battleship hull for fighting other battleships. It isn't strictly necessary, however. Later BB hulls are good, and in particular offer new engine upgrades (which are essential to getting decent speeds), but the delay in building them isn't really justifiable. Cruiser hulls are more realistic as you need light attack more than heavy attack, and you can build cruisers in wartime.
2.) Guns: Light and heavy gun upgrades are AWFUL. The only gun upgrades that are worth anything are secondaries (DP secondaries are awesome), and cruiser guns (they also add significant firepower and piercing, but at the expense of costing steel per turret...). Never research past 1936 light or heavy guns.
3.) Radar/AA: These are the good refits. AA gets vastly-better in 1940 and 1944, and RADAR massively-improves capital ship attack ratings starting in 1940 (the first two radar techs don't really add any attack). Fire control is a toss-up since it lowers reliability.

Past 1940, its rarely worth making new battleships. If you can use a research bonus to get the 1940 hull tech, its useful for making faster engines available for new ships, or stick to battlecruisers (which have decent speed, at least). Heavy cruisers are pretty good after 1940, but in singleplayer you're not likely to really need that many new capital ships into the late game.

Refits are worthwhile on capital ships, just don't refit engines if you're not trying to upgrade ships to treaty standards (i.e. the USA can't really get any new capital ships without getting rid of some until the war starts). Never refit armor either, and I'd only refit guns on CAs if you want to downgrade them (otherwise its expensive to upgrade them, but some nations like the USA have way too many CAs and not enough CLs). AA, radar, DP secondaries, and maybe fire control (I don't like the loss of reliability, but it does significantly-improve attack and AA) are all worth refitting. Refits are also great since they don't cost any steel, in case you're running out (unless you're adding a component with steel requirements).
 
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demon72

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As DR I build the following fleet:

X/Y: Hull/Equipment

2x BC 36/42 (4 Gun-Design)

20x CL 40/42 (4 Gun-Design)

12x DD 40/43 (3 Torp-Design)

...and this tiny fleet sunk the US Navy and the british Navy in a row in 1943 without losing any ships.


1940+ Hulls are just for fun - at least in SP.
 

markslawson

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As DR I build the following fleet:

X/Y: Hull/Equipment

2x BC 36/42 (4 Gun-Design)

20x CL 40/42 (4 Gun-Design)

12x DD 40/43 (3 Torp-Design)

...and this tiny fleet sunk the US Navy and the british Navy in a row in 1943 without losing any ships.


1940+ Hulls are just for fun - at least in SP.
Very late response - what doctrines were you using .. and thanks for the reply..
 

demon72

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Very late response - what doctrines were you using .. and thanks for the reply..

no naval doctrines at that point, but some TAC, that killed a few enemy DDs before.

Not 100% sure, but I would guess the moduls make the difference:

- my fleet is much faster
- CL have 1940er Armor
- max radar and fire control
- L3 Torps and Guns

The 20 CL seems to have enough firepower to kill the enemy shields very fast, DDs with 3x L3 Torps and high speed are quite deadly for capitals as the shield is down.

My impression was, that my fleet received almost no hits.

I'm really no expert of HOI4 naval warfare, but I was surprised how easy it was.
 
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Caeric

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If you can get any ahead of time bonuses the 1940 and 44 CV hulls become exponentially more powerful thanks to additional hangar slots compared to the converted and 1936 hulls that share the same number of slots.
 

Corpse Fool

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Starting with the idea that the only capitals you should probably be using are heavy cruisers and carriers, there are a couple of points against '44 hulls.

'40 cruiser hulls already have the majority of the strength that '44 hulls would. You arent gaining any extra module slots to be mounting extra firepower, the most of what you get is the extra hull and engine speed, and some HP. The reliability and range are kinda whatever. Not a whole lot of benefit for the increased IC, manpower, and steel cost on top of the research time spent. It is difficult to rush cruiser 4 in time for use.

With the carriers, they are expensive so they take a long time to build. Which assumes you are even allowed to build them because of treaty limitations. This means you would have to rush the tech even earlier than you would have to rush the cruiser hull, which is even more difficult. This usually means it is practically impossible to have '44 carrier hulls out by the time you would want them for whatever typical ww2 conflict.
 
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Louella

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I've played games as the UK, where I did not have to build any battleships, not even the historically built KGVs, and still managed to thrash the Italian, German, and Japanese fleets. The only capitals I built were a relative handful of 1936 and 1940 model carriers. And a lot more cruisers and destroyers - Sometimes enough to reach the limit of the historical name lists.

It's... distressing almost, that the AI is bad enough that this is possible.
 
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