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Deserteur

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someone told me to do it :) I cannot remeber who, but which city was more important 1419, Girona or Seu d'Urgell?

Maybe some of you can put my download link into their signature to support the mod? :)
 

unmerged(2833)

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Originally posted by Deserteur
@ Maur13: The example of Lithuania was related to the real world not the game. In the real world the country of Lithuania moved, as Poland moved too!

Krementjug to Zaporo¿e
Krakow (province) to Ma³opolska
Czernowitz to ¯ytomierz

these are the changes I have done. If I have forgotten something, let me know, because I have so much to do I cannot keep everything in my mind :)
Well, you could change Krementjug to Sietch (in Polish, Sicz), as i said, Krementjug appears only on my maps from XIX century onwards. If you have maps which shows it before, then ok.

Btw, all that names are Polish. It's rather stupid, similar to calling Kiev Kijów. Sadly, i don't know Ukrainian names.

Ah, from the other thread which turned to be Silesian one;)

Originally posted by Deserteur
Maur13: It will stay Breslau, because I need a German name or do you know a German name for Wratislav?
AFAIK, Germans also called this city Wratislav. Sorta of universal name.


Originally posted by Deserteur
who cares, it belonged to the Germans :p
It was Bohemian, you know. Actually, good part of it was ruled by Polish vassal of Czech crown:D. Anyway, if you want German name it would be Schlessien (or something like that:D). I don't know Bohemian name, Polish (which is the most appropriate one:D) would be Œlask.
 

Txini

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Originally posted by celedhring
Mmmm... no, there's nothing wrong to rename Girona "Urgell", I am just curious why you did it, as it wasn't wrong with the previous name.

I was the one who recommend to change it to Urgell, I think it was more important in that firsts ages, and well Gerona is too simple :D
 

Demetrios

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Originally posted by Maur13


AFAIK, Germans also called this city Wratislav. Sorta of universal name.

It's pretty easy to see how the Polish Wratislav could be mis-pronounced by the Germans and turned into Breslau. I had always wondered about that, then Maur13 (or some other Pole) informed me of the original name of the city and it all made perfect sense....
 

celedhring

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Originally posted by Txini


I was the one who recommend to change it to Urgell, I think it was more important in that firsts ages, and well Gerona is too simple :D

Well it was pretty important, the heir to the throne carried the title of Prince of Girona :D

Urgell was important in the 700-1100 period, in this century is just an underpopulated mountanious county. Again, it's not particularly wrong to put it that way, as the "Girona" province comprises several counties. Just do it as you like it more.
 

Deserteur

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@ Maur13: Breslau is called Wroclaw in Polish according to my atlas. But ok if you have a proof that Silesia was mainly inhabited by Poles in 1419 then I will turn this province into a Polish one, at least the culture of the province. (I already renamed it from Silesia to Schlesien)

For Urgell and Girona, which county was larger and more important?
I renamed Yekaterinoslav to Sicz in the province of Zaporo¿e.

I also renamed Netherlands to Nederland and Brussels to Broekzele.


edit: I renamed Iceland to Ísland and removed the changes for Österbotten / Vasa and Nyland / Viborg, so that these provinces are have Swedish names again.
 
Last edited:

Deserteur

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what do you think of renaming Albania to "Shqipëria". I found out that this is Albania in Albanian, or is this not correct?

anyways this are the latest changes:

Bulgaria (province/country) to Balgarija
Wallachia (province/country) to Tara Romaneascä
Moldavia (country) to Moldova
Albania (province/country) to Shqipëria
 
Last edited:

celedhring

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Well, historically the County of Urgell played a greater part in the reconquest of the lands which are today Catalonia, and the bishopry of Urgell was the most important in Catalonia. However, in the XV cent Girona was a more rellevant city by far.
 

Deserteur

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So Girona or Urgell?

maybe I could write the province as Urgell and the city as Girona or would this be nonsense?

Anyways I will be in Turkey (Ottoman Empire ;)) from tomorrow morning for a week, so you will get no news or update from me until then :)
 

celedhring

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Originally posted by Deserteur
So Girona or Urgell?

maybe I could write the province as Urgell and the city as Girona or would this be nonsense?


It would be nonsense, actually, they're pretty afar from each other :)

I'd go with Girona, only because it is more consistent with the province name in the map.

And enjoy your trip to Turkey :)
 

pithorr

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Originally posted by Maur13
It was Bohemian, you know. Actually, good part of it was ruled by Polish vassal of Czech crown:D. Anyway, if you want German name it would be Schlessien (or something like that:D). I don't know Bohemian name, Polish (which is the most appropriate one:D) would be Œlask.
Slezsko
...and Vratislav rather then Wratislaw, however I'm not sure about Czech spelling in 1400s, they were using cz, rz etc. yet...
 

unmerged(5394)

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Re: historical language-mod

Originally posted by Deserteur


SOUTH-EAST EUROPE
Hungary to Magyar
Presburg to Bratislava
Odenburg to Ödenburg
Guns to Ödenburg
Temeschburg to Timisoara
Transylvania/Siebenbürgen (province/country) to Transilvania
Hermannstadt to Sibiu
Ruthenia to Rutenia

Deserteur,

Ich kann Dir nur mit Ungarn helfen:

Anstatt Magyar würde Ich an Deiner stelle lieber MAGYARORSZÁG benutzen, weil dies ist der Begriff für Ungarn, Magyar bedeutet einfach nur Ungar/in.

Und weil Du Historische Namen benutz (Königsberg anstatt Kaliningrad...) solltest Du consequent bleiben und das selbe auch mit Ungarischen staedte tun: ;)

POZSONY anstatt Pressburg
SOPRON anstatt Ödenburg
TEMESVÁR anstatt Timisoara
NAGYSZEBEN anstatt Sibiu
und KÁRPÁTALJA anstatt Ruthenia

Danke, und viel Glück:D
 

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Not to ruin everyone's good spirits about getting all of the province names changed to their native tongues, but...

I like names that I can:
*recognize, and
*pronounce ;):D,

not to mention that you've stretched the "West Alphabet" rule a little bit. So what I was wondering is, once again for the sake of conformity, would anyone like to make a mod with all English names? It wouldn't be nearly so hard, because you wouldn't have to worry about who controlled what when, you'd just have to know your good-old, ignorant American butchering of foreign culture :D
 

celedhring

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Originally posted by Sharur
Not to ruin everyone's good spirits about getting all of the province names changed to their native tongues, but...

I like names that I can:
*recognize, and
*pronounce ;):D,

not to mention that you've stretched the "West Alphabet" rule a little bit. So what I was wondering is, once again for the sake of conformity, would anyone like to make a mod with all English names? It wouldn't be nearly so hard, because you wouldn't have to worry about who controlled what when, you'd just have to know your good-old, ignorant American butchering of foreign culture :D

On the other side, I love names I don't recognize for regions, so I can learn them :)
 

unmerged(5394)

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Originally posted by Sharur
Not to ruin everyone's good spirits about getting all of the province names changed to their native tongues, but...

I like names that I can:
*recognize, and
*pronounce ;):D,

not to mention that you've stretched the "West Alphabet" rule a little bit. So what I was wondering is, once again for the sake of conformity, would anyone like to make a mod with all English names? It wouldn't be nearly so hard, because you wouldn't have to worry about who controlled what when, you'd just have to know your good-old, ignorant American butchering of foreign culture :D

Sure, but keep it consistant, not applying doubble standards, that is what makes some ppl like me concerned.;)
 

kullenius

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Skåne - Lund and Malmö

Sorry for spamming, but since this discusion takes place at two places, I also made this post twice.



Skånes provincial city should definitely be changed back to Lund. It was changed because one person from Malmö wanted his city to be it, with the arguments of it had a larger fort, royal mint and that Lund in 1700’s were a very small town. All of this is fully true, but will be argued later. Also think of the reason why no one of the Swedish developers or all other Swedes has fought against Lund before.

The Christian Lund was “founded” in 990 as the new Lundinum (London – well it didn’t really stand up to its twin city now did it…) by the Danish king to show his power in the region. For that reason it was place inland where all road met, and not out by the coast which where quite normal at that time (at least in those days up here in what where quite low cultivated Scandinavia). The royal mint and the archbishop where placed there, among with some royal officials and soldiers. Around 11th century Lund had more churches then the whole of the northern countries together (Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Iceland are calculated for). Then I don’t remember if it where by the 1200 or 1400 that Lund still managed to have as many as Sweden had together. Lund was for a long time the metropol for the church power in the Northern, and in the beginning it hold archbishopsy over Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Färislands, Iceland, Greenland and Rügen. During the reformation most churches where demolished, to make stone for the fortification effort in Malmö. Still the most important fortification in Skåne where Lindholmen. After that we have the two important cities of Helsingborg and Landskrona. During a few peace negotiations between Denmark and Sweden, for a bit after the time when Skåne became Swedish, Denmark often asks for Helsingborg and Landskrona, but never for Malmö. This is also good evidence for that Malmö wasn’t anything anyone cared very much about until 19th century, when it started to become the important city it is today.

The royal mint in Lund, or Metropolis Daniae as the city often also where refered to as, where the largest in Denmark during its time. After over 400 years it where in 1440’s moved to Malmö – who then had it for around 80 years.

Lund hold from 1180 up to 1683 the ting (district court) for Skåne. After that period the new Swedish crown moved it to a friendlier place, not sure if it moved to Malmö at once though.

The Danish kings weren’t fully legal instituted before he/she had been proclaimed in Lund. In a few civil wars, you can read about how both parts fought for being first to Lund, and thereby have the great advantage over there enemy since they would have been declared the legal one. This didn’t stop until the Swedish takeover, and most Danish kings before had been proclaimed in Lund. Many Danish kings have also been married in Lund cathedral. The original Danish flag – Danebrogen – where held in Lund, since it where the archbishop in Lund that “invented” it (lowered to him from God in a battle in the Baltic which changed defeat to victory, or at least so it’s said. The Danish flag is by the way the oldest national flag still in use in the world).

After the Swedish takeover, it is still no wonder that they placed the university in Lund 1666. Much of Lund’s former market had moved through time to places like Malmö, who had the advantage of harbours. The cultural, intellectual and official life still remained though (and it’s apart from the official as such even today). The original purpose of the Swedish university came to be since people from Skåne were forbidden to go to Copenhagen’s university. With the new in Lund, they should become swedified instead of looking back to the Danish “good old time”. As we see, it was placed in Lund, and not in Malmö. Lund had also had a high school from 1438 to 1537. As a little side note from this period, it can be said that the bloodiest battle of all Northern history, is at the outskirts of Lund. 10.000 soldiers on each side, with losses at 50% on both sides.

In the 18th century Lund had declined to a very small town, in 1716 for example there lived 1300 people, much less then it did during the middle ages. But it should also be said that in Malmö in 1712 there lived about a 1000 souls. This was after the plague had haunted both cities. Malmö was hit worst, and lost about half its population, but it was still a very small city. A city that hadn’t got an official city status until around 1250.

The Swedish king Karl XII held his power in Lund between 1715 and 1718, not as much for Lund was Lund then any longer, but more since it lies in the middle of all roads going through western Skåne. It was a perfect strategic place looking out for the upcoming Danish invasion – that never came.

And as for last. Take a historical atlas, look through time over Scandinavia. As you will see, Lund is there very early on, and Malmö doesn’t make its appearance until more or less modern time.

With my statements I would strongly suggest that the provincial city in Skåne should remain as Lund! Malmö _is_ an important city in Skåne today, but didn’t really find that position until the 19th century, and since the game ends in 1819, it’s very unhistorical to make the choice of Malmö.
 

Hamilcar

El Rey
Mar 9, 2002
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