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Karyant

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I dont have many experience in EU3 and I start a game with Portugal. Now I have Land level 16, my best land units are:

Latin Knight and Landsknechten Infantry, the stats are:

Unit Off. fire Def. fire Off. shock Def. shock Off. morale Def. morale
Landsknechten Infantry 0 0 1 2 3 5
Latin Knights 0 0 1 0 1 1

Only but the stats, the Landsknechten Infantry is better than Latin. However I read the cavalry is always better then infantry. That is true?
 

zedyue

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Cavalry can attack a unit already being attacked by infantry.
Infantry can only engage units in front of them.

This is why African armies are so bad. Even relatively bad cavalry is useful since it is adding some damage to opponent units that are already being attacked by infantry. However if your 10 stack of infantry is fighting a 3 stack of infantry, only 3 of your infantry are fighting the 3 of theirs.
 

Slym

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The reason that cavalry are often better than infantry even when the infantry has better stats is because of the shock modifier that cavalry has compared to infantry. I'm not entirely sure what it does or how big it is, but it apparently makes a pretty big difference.
 

midget_roxx

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The reason that cavalry are often better than infantry even when the infantry has better stats is because of the shock modifier that cavalry has compared to infantry. I'm not entirely sure what it does or how big it is, but it apparently makes a pretty big difference.
When you bring up the list of your units that can be built there will be number next to them and these numbers indicate the shock and fire multipliers for each unit. Cavalry start off with x4 I think and infantry are around the x1 mark (perhaps lower) which is why cavalry do more damage despite them having less pips.

On a unit by unit basis cavalry are better so long as they have the combined arms bonus. So 7 infantry/5cavalry will beat 12infantry because they will have greater shock damage. Of course the 5 cavalry army will be more expensive. I just wish it was like IN where you could have cav only stacks, they were awesome fun :D
 

Nunn45

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As a western nation, early on your Cav will be stronger then your Infantry but that changes over time, at the Landsknechten stage is were Cav are best reduced to a supporting role.
This is of course not true for non-western nations, Muslim tech Units have stronger Cav then their Infantry for a fair amount of time, though you will be westernizing at some point so this is kinda moot.
 

Maggo

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Early on there are very few units with Fire pips, so Shock and Morale are where the fighting happens. As said cavarly makes better use of it's shock with the modifier, they are stronger in early game. Fire takes over shock around Land tech 22. It's good to have some cavarly throughout the game as they flank and give some protection if you brainfart or something and assault with infantry only etc.
 

knul

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The shock modifier of cavalry is about 2x that of infantry for Land tech 1-18 and becomes 4x that of infantry around Land tech 28.

What the pips of units do is to modify the die roll. In a shock or fire phase, a 10-sided die is rolled for each side: this number is shown in the battle view. The offensive pips are added to this roll and the defender's defensive pips are substracted. So a pip roughly represents a 10% increase in offence or defence; don't fall into the trap thinking that a unit with 2 pips is twice as good as a unit with 1 pip.

This means that an offensive shock pip for cavalry is worth much more than one for infantry, as the shock modifier of cavalry is so much higher. For cavalry, you want to have the highest offensive shock pip and ignore offensive fire pip, as cavalry will never have a good fire modifier.

So cavalry does wicked shock damage compared to infantry. However, cavalry (western at least) has very few defensive pip compared to infantry (especially for morale) and thus take more damage. Cavalry also suffers more from terrain penalties. This makes cavalry a bit of a glass cannon and I would advice using 4 of them in a stack with lots of infantry, so that the cavalry can outflank the enemy and not getting damaged in return.

Hope this helps.
 

unmerged(487181)

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The shock modifier of cavalry is about 2x that of infantry for Land tech 1-18 and becomes 4x that of infantry around Land tech 28.

What the pips of units do is to modify the die roll. In a shock or fire phase, a 10-sided die is rolled for each side: this number is shown in the battle view. The offensive pips are added to this roll and the defender's defensive pips are substracted. So a pip roughly represents a 10% increase in offence or defence; don't fall into the trap thinking that a unit with 2 pips is twice as good as a unit with 1 pip.

This means that an offensive shock pip for cavalry is worth much more than one for infantry, as the shock modifier of cavalry is so much higher. For cavalry, you want to have the highest offensive shock pip and ignore offensive fire pip, as cavalry will never have a good fire modifier.

So cavalry does wicked shock damage compared to infantry. However, cavalry (western at least) has very few defensive pip compared to infantry (especially for morale) and thus take more damage. Cavalry also suffers more from terrain penalties. This makes cavalry a bit of a glass cannon and I would advice using 4 of them in a stack with lots of infantry, so that the cavalry can outflank the enemy and not getting damaged in return.

Hope this helps.
If I may quibble, the pips are a little more important than you state using your own numbers. If you roll a 10, then yes, one pip represents a mere 10% increase, but if you roll a one (equally likely), then it's a 100% increase. The average increase across all 10 rolls is 29.2%, so it would be more accurate to state that one pip is about a 30% increase.

However the thrust of this post is spot-on. The shock modifier is the key difference here. If two units have the same fire or shock modifier, then their pips compare at a 1:1 ratio. If not, though, the difference in the modifiers will give the ratio. In other words, since cavalry starts out with a shock modifier 2x as big as the infantry shock modifier, one cavalry shock pip is worth about two infantry shock pips.

Comparing the specific units in question, the Landsknecten Infantry and Latin Knight:
Infantry: 1 off. shock, 2 def. shock, 3 off. morale, 5 def. morale
Knight: 1 off. shock, 0 def. shock, 1 off. morale, 1 def. morale

After factoring the tech modifier what we're actually looking at is:
Infantry: 1 off. shock, 2 def. shock, 3 off. morale, 5 def. morale
Knight: 2 off. shock, 0 def. shock, 1 off. morale, 1 def. morale

So the Latin Knights will do more damage on offense, but much less on defense, and in either case will break rank from morale much quicker than the Landsknechten Infantry. The Infantry is the better baseline unit here, but the Knight is still useful for flanking, provided that you remain within the requirements for the combined arms bonus.
 

Karyant

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" I just wish it was like IN where you could have cav only stacks, they were awesome fun "

This is my case I play IN, this is important? The combine bonus work in In Nomine?
 

Booo

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This is a great thread, but I think it might also need an explanation of how the combined arms bonus work (it enables tactics doesn't it?), as well as how casualties are calculated, moral loss, and how defensive pips factor in. Also, the effects of fractional pips.
 

knul

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This is a great thread, but I think it might also need an explanation of how the combined arms bonus work (it enables tactics doesn't it?), as well as how casualties are calculated, moral loss, and how defensive pips factor in. Also, the effects of fractional pips.

I can recommend the EU3 wiki page on military matters, it's very informative.

Combined arms' effect is AFAIK just enabling tactics. Tactics reduce your casualties using the formula 1/(1+t), where t is your tactic level.
The exact casualties calculation and especially morale loss are a bit of a mystery, although I'm convinced that morale loss is linked to casualties.

Defensive pips I have already explained. Fractional pips (I assume from artillery) are also an unknown factor, but I suppose they're added/substraced just like integer values.
 

Booo

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Oh, yes, your explanation of defensive pips covered just about everything I wanted to know.

The additional thing I might want to know is how units are targeted in combat, as cavalry hitting infantry and infantry (fire) hitting cavalry first is the optimal order of battle, and if that might somehow be achieved.

Furthermore, does artillery have the ability to enhance cavalry and infantry both? I always assumed it added half its pips to the unit in front of it after those units have their stats calculated. I.e. The fire increase for the unit in front is unaffected by the units shock/fire modifiers.

I'll read through the wiki article, all my questions might have already been answered there.
 

Pewt

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" I just wish it was like IN where you could have cav only stacks, they were awesome fun "

This is my case I play IN, this is important? The combine bonus work in In Nomine?
You can still have pure cav stacks, you just miss out on the extra Military Tactics. Charge cavalry stacks still rule the early game though.