Landless courtiers hate you when you give them land

[GuardianGI]

Liege: Oh whats that, you're a lowborn courtier? How about I give huge swathes of land, with your own castle and city to control, you know no big deal, it's not like this was the HIGHEST EFFING HONOR IN MEDIEVAL SOCIETY
Five days later....
Vassal: Why i'm not on the council? You don't mind if I join an increased council faction against you?
Liege: Sigh....

 

[Rags17]

So I'm sort of guessing that you're not a parent . . .

 

[Silver Dagger]

Their ambitions don't end when you land then any more than yours do when you usurp your liege's title. They probably still have a good opinion of you, though, if that makes you feel any better.

 

[Dakilla TM]

Their ambitions don't end when you land then any more than yours do when you usurp your liege's title. They probably still have a good opinion of you, though, if that makes you feel any better.

They should still have a massive "granted land" +100 modifier for some time. I just turned a nobody into a landed lord with his own damn castle and created a new dynasty for him! Even if the courtier hated your guts he'd still somewhat appreciate your kindness. Heck he might even have a change of heart and realize that his liege isn't that bad as he thought.

 

[RGN-JohnSnow]

I agree i does seem a little bit broken. i could see the granted land bonus wearing down over time and the counsel seat ambiton starting to climb a few years after the title is given but not immediately

 

[Jayavarman]

Deus vult.

 

[Dragatus]

There could be a special opinion bonus for giving an unlanded character their fist landed title. That way if you make a courtier into a count they show more gratitude than if you give a duke one more county.

 

[Thorkel the Tall]

Yes, especially a lowborn. Perhaps a bonus for "knighting" them with their first title, as they go from lowborn to noble. But the again, then perhaps there should be a chance of negative opinion from you current nobility when a lowborn is landed - in medieval society that was not looked well upon and many a king experienced rebellion on that account. In Crusader King it is actually to easy to replace the nobility by appointing new nobles from lowborn ranks.

I don't have Conclave (yet), but that should really be something the council should consider: the right to ennoble lowborns. Giving titles to unlanded members of existing families should be fine though. Similar marrying lowborn should have a more negative consequence than the current prestige loss (a permanent -5 oppionion among your vassals for if you have a lowborn wife for example, marrying lowborns is a way of limiting the nobles possibility to climb the social hierarchy).

 

[Tapio]

Power tends to corrupt.

 

[Ruwaard]

Yes, especially a lowborn. Perhaps a bonus for "knighting" them with their first title, as they go from lowborn to noble. But the again, then perhaps there should be a chance of negative opinion from you current nobility when a lowborn is landed - in medieval society that was not looked well upon and many a king experienced rebellion on that account. In Crusader King it is actually to easy to replace the nobility by appointing new nobles from lowborn ranks.
(...)

I know what you mean (raising someone to nobility), but (in medieval times) you did not need to be noble to be knighted. Lowborn in game might be somewhat ambiguous though, they could be ministeriales and have a low noble background. Even when they didn't, they would belong to the social class just below the nobles.

Actually there were career prospects in conquered and/or colonized areas, the Reconquista, Northern Crusades, Mezzogiorno, England, Ireland and the other various destinations of Norman adventures.
In those cases only the local displaced nobles with a different culture and/or religion may have resented such a move. Replacing nobles with lowborn or lower born favourites within the more established realm would be more difficult, though not impossible , provided it concerned fiefs with had reverted to the crown and weren't taken by force from the previous owner.
However there were some limits in conquered and/or colonized lands too, granting them a county would be possible, but the whole (in game) duchy might still meet a lot of opposition.
Usually a count from an established house was granted a margraviate or duchy, and they usually granted the vassal lords/barons and favourites from their home county, counties, baronies etc. within the new margraviate/duchy.

Perhaps 'resistance' to liege elevating a ''parvenu'' can be scaled, granting a barony to a 'lowborn' should be fine*, but granting that same 'lowborn' a whole duchy should displease established ducal and comital houses (the latter group would have desired to be raised to a duke themselves, and the former would resent having to treat a parvenu as an equal).
(*= they are one step below a landed baron)

 

[chrispti]

They should still have a massive "granted land" +100 modifier for some time. I just turned a nobody into a landed lord with his own damn castle and created a new dynasty for him! Even if the courtier hated your guts he'd still somewhat appreciate your kindness. Heck he might even have a change of heart and realize that his liege isn't that bad as he thought.

A modifier that lasts at least 10 years. Maybe not +100 but +80 or +70 to offset the -40 for Wants on Council. This a million times.

 

[Aries666]

Yes, especially a lowborn. Perhaps a bonus for "knighting" them with their first title, as they go from lowborn to noble. But the again, then perhaps there should be a chance of negative opinion from you current nobility when a lowborn is landed - in medieval society that was not looked well upon and many a king experienced rebellion on that account. In Crusader King it is actually to easy to replace the nobility by appointing new nobles from lowborn ranks.

This is an interesting point especially because if you conquer a whole kingdom by say a crusade the best way to distribute the land is to give one county each to high stewardship lowborns to increase the chance of quickly turning the culture whilst not making a single person in your realm more powerful (other than said lowborns).

 

[Panzerschiffe]

Their family should be grateful for generations!

 

[gdj]

Ungrateful lowborns like...Thomas Becket for example? Nah, impossible...

 

[cerpintaxt475]

A modifier that lasts at least 10 years. Maybe not +100 but +80 or +70 to offset the -40 for Wants on Council. This a million times.

I think something like +75 "Raised to nobility" modifier, that decays steadily over say 10 - 15 years would go a long way. Double the decay rate if they have ambitious, and halve it if they have content.

 

[Red Earth]

There's a year period after granting a title where you can't revoke the title. I think for that time they should be exempt from vassal opinion modifiers while the figgure out where the parchment paper is kept.

 

[Thorkel the Tall]

"Actually there were career prospects in conquered and/or colonized areas, the Reconquista, Northern Crusades, Mezzogiorno, England, Ireland and the other various destinations of Norman adventures."

At least in England most of the people landed was relatively important people back in Normandy.... If not people who already had titles, then younger sons of people with titles. Very few "random" lowborns where given important titles such as dukedoms etc. Of course by 1066 feudalism was as established, but it was still within the leading families that new prospects for leadership was most often found. Did lowborns get titles: not very often. Did people from the knight class (the gentry in England) get elevated: yes some times, but if done systematiccally as the plays do in CK the established nobility would get pissed. In many countries marrying a lowborn excluded your children from inheriting the noble title (both parents needed to have noble births), marrying people from the knight class didn't have the same issue. Thus the knight class was considered at least partially noble. Of course in 1066 when William the Bastard ruled, the rules was alot less strict (more related to the tribal system).

 

[Thure]

I think something like +75 "Raised to nobility" modifier, that decays steadily over say 10 - 15 years would go a long way. Double the decay rate if they have ambitious, and halve it if they have content.

Most lowborn characters ARE already nobility. At least low ranked nobles.

 

[Thrake]

But then the gamey strategy would be to land only lowborns as they would forgive anything you do.

People always want more power; besides if you didn't wanted the guy on your council you might instead just have picked someone you actually wanted in your council; that's usually how I choose who I want to land.

 

[Ruwaard]

"Actually there were career prospects in conquered and/or colonized areas, the Reconquista, Northern Crusades, Mezzogiorno, England, Ireland and the other various destinations of Norman adventures."

At least in England most of the people landed was relatively important people back in Normandy.... If not people who already had titles, then younger sons of people with titles. Very few "random" lowborns where given important titles such as dukedoms etc. Of course by 1066 feudalism was as established, but it was still within the leading families that new prospects for leadership was most often found. Did lowborns get titles: not very often. Did people from the knight class (the gentry in England) get elevated: yes some times, but if done systematiccally as the plays do in CK the established nobility would get pissed. In many countries marrying a lowborn excluded your children from inheriting the noble title (both parents needed to have noble births), marrying people from the knight class didn't have the same issue. Thus the knight class was considered at least partially noble. Of course in 1066 when William the Bastard ruled, the rules was alot less strict (more related to the tribal system).

So basically my count getting a margraviate/duchy example in my previous post. Conquered and/or colonized were granted to vassals, established families, favourites from back home, they in turn would look at their own vassals, favourites etc. Moreover I mentioned career prospects in these frontier areas, that includes baron, or members from baronial families getting a county, comital houses being invested with a duchy etc.
Within more established parts of the realm, that usually takes the longer 'marriage game' approach. Unless the falls into an interregnum, war of succession civil war, though even then there probably less great possibilities. It's probably even less for the occasional fief, which had reverted to the crown.
However conquered and/or colonized frontier regions don't stay like that forever, so after a few generations with 'golden opportunities' they will have reached the same state as the rest of the realm.

Another element are the available people with your religion and culture or perhaps culture group. Maybe a ruler should also be able to offer to grant a landed title to someone within range, but outside your realm and/or court. If they accept, then that character will receive the offered title and holding(-s). So like join court, become vassal, that should be a positive opinion modifier, which will increase with the tier and number of titles offered. People, who won't join your court, might want to gain lands and become a vassal.