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I would like to see this plan as an AAR though!
first HOI3 AAR coming up. England as isolationist nation focussing all their research on very long range artillery and funny hats. (and probably electric cars)
You mean the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland!
Nonsense. Dead traps those area's.
I might even dump wales.
:rofl:
-"Can't be too careful in foreign climes."
-"It's only Wales."
-"It's still foreign!"
Find the origin of the quote and you win a cookie
With all this thread hijacking who even knows what we were even discussing.
The best way to perform a landing was to send para units to a non beach coastal province that was unguarded, keep your TPs in wait and as soon as your paras took control of the province.
It would make sense to be able to land in non beach provinces if they arent occupied but that might cause problems with the engine of switching landable provinces on/off during the game. It just seems weird so i figure just tweaking the AI so it guards coastal stuff properly to prevent such exploits would be wiser.
I'm thinking landings are going to have some frontage involved to allow only a certain amount of units on the beach at any one time. You can't just cram a beach with 20 divisions all at once, some of which are armoured and motorized. However, maybe doctrines can affect landing frontage to some extent or landing penalty.
btw kenobi, the quote is from ''The Englishman Who Went Up a Hill But Came Down a Mountain''
give me that cookie
The best way to perform a landing was to send para units to a non beach coastal province that was unguarded, keep your TPs in wait and as soon as your paras took control of the province.
It would make sense to be able to land in non beach provinces if they arent occupied but that might cause problems with the engine of switching landable provinces on/off during the game. It just seems weird so i figure just tweaking the AI so it guards coastal stuff properly to prevent such exploits would be wiser.
I'm thinking landings are going to have some frontage involved to allow only a certain amount of units on the beach at any one time. You can't just cram a beach with 20 divisions all at once, some of which are armoured and motorized. However, maybe doctrines can affect landing frontage to some extent or landing penalty.
btw kenobi, the quote is from ''The Englishman Who Went Up a Hill But Came Down a Mountain''
give me that cookie
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Indeed it is! Here's the cookie:
And back to the thread subject, as far as I can recall, there won't be any small ports in HoI3, like they used to in HoI2. I believe that it should be impossible to land forces in a province, that doesn't have either a harbour or enough beaches for an invasion. And that includes friendly provinces.
I just don't think it realistic that you can deploy forces everywhere, regardless of the terrain or the presence of port facilities. All in all, the sea transport mechanic should be maintained for ports only. Everywhere else, units should deploy from the ships, as per the amphibious landing mechanics.
This should also eliminate the annoying instant deployment, that was present in HoI2, whereupon as long as you controlled a province, you could land forces and have them ready for defense immediately.
And back to the thread subject, as far as I can recall, there won't be any small ports in HoI3, like they used to in HoI2. I believe that it should be impossible to land forces in a province, that doesn't have either a harbour or enough beaches for an invasion. And that includes friendly provinces.
I just don't think it realistic that you can deploy forces everywhere, regardless of the terrain or the presence of port facilities. All in all, the sea transport mechanic should be maintained for ports only. Everywhere else, units should deploy from the ships, as per the amphibious landing mechanics.
This should also eliminate the annoying instant deployment, that was present in HoI2, whereupon as long as you controlled a province, you could land forces and have them ready for defense immediately.
Couple of interesting things.
1) I wounder if all provinces will be "landable" but with different frontage, penalties and time delays. Sure it would be very impractical to land troops up cliffs but if you 100% knew there were no troops within several days of there why not send some men to climb up the cliffs.
2) "Only navalbases can take in convoys of supplies&fuel." I assume that when landing on a beach troops get some supplies when they first land and that air supply is also an option. Clearly capturing/defending ports will be very important... Mulberry?????
1) I wounder if all provinces will be "landable" but with different frontage, penalties and time delays. Sure it would be very impractical to land troops up cliffs but if you 100% knew there were no troops within several days of there why not send some men to climb up the cliffs.
2) "Only navalbases can take in convoys of supplies&fuel." I assume that when landing on a beach troops get some supplies when they first land and that air supply is also an option. Clearly capturing/defending ports will be very important... Mulberry?????
1). It's a bit more complicated than that I think. A division is more than just its men. There are trucks, artillery pieces of various sizes, supply crates... All that needs to be brought ashore as well and winching them up steep hills wouldn't be very practical.
2). From what I can recall, it's not that only naval-bases can receive supply convoys, rather the size of a port determines how many supplies per day it can receive. A province with beaches, but no port, can still receive supplies, just much less in volume.
For one, I hope they implement a quick and easy system of determining what kind of port a certain army would require, to keep itself supplied and vise versa, determining how many divisions of a certain type a level x port could support. Imho, this could be best implemented by indicating, in the army interface, how many supplies it needs, in total, and what kind of ports that would require.
The beauty of Paradox games is that you can do virtually anything! ...with a text editor.
But getting back on-topic... will every major amphibious invasion start with a port in the deployment queue, or can you supply a bare minimum without it? Will damage to ports affect how much supplies get in, or not? If so, then air superiority will be vital for keeping away the port-striking TACs in the days/weeks after an invasion...
It would be a bit odd if you could have a dock ready undeployed and as soon as you land then you could build it. (maybe if you had Mulberry style techs)...
On the other hand if Japan takes over some small island and have 2-3 months even to start building a harbor... I don't really know what the restrictions should be for when you are allowed to build a harbor in a region.
On the other hand if Japan takes over some small island and have 2-3 months even to start building a harbor... I don't really know what the restrictions should be for when you are allowed to build a harbor in a region.
But getting back on-topic... will every major amphibious invasion start with a port in the deployment queue, or can you supply a bare minimum without it? Will damage to ports affect how much supplies get in, or not? If so, then air superiority will be vital for keeping away the port-striking TACs in the days/weeks after an invasion...
1. Major invasions won't need to hit at ports since divisions can carry some supplies with them. Im guessing it will be around 1-4 weeks supply modified by tech and type. So this will be your time window before a secure port or airsupply way is needed. Its a race against time just like reality.
2. Damage on ports are very likely to affect incoming supplies. This would mimic reality (Cherbourg) and make alot of sense.
3. Im hoping that airstrikes and carrier strikes damage on ports size will be much less efficient in HoI3. Aircrafts seeking to thwat an invasion would be much better used targeting the few troops protecting the beachead or the ships that are equally vunerable when unloading.
Personally im hoping port size will not be bombed down by naval attack but by strategic attack values. So CAGs & NAVs won't be able to affect it as easilly as large scale bomber raids.
I agree with number 3 Alex_brunius. In HoI2, Naval Bombers were overpowered and other bombers seemed inadequate in being extremely effective.
This is an interesting remark from Johan. It made me go back and look at the logistics DD #9. If it requires a naval base to receive supplies and fuel then logic says it will require one to ship out raw materials. It seems to show that, however I’m trying to keep in mind it’s a beta. But, if that’s the case then we won’t see a port on every ocean provence like in HoI2, but we should see many more “naval” bases in order to move raw materials around the globe. It brought these questions to mind;
A) I think Johan has hinted that the size of the naval base will determine how much fuel and supplies can come through it on a daily basis. This will be a limiting factor on how many divisions you can support in an invasion. Does this also limit what can be shipped back to the home country when you are talking about raw materials? (Think of North Borneo for Great Britain)
B) Is the size of the naval base going to limit what can occur at that base? What I’m trying to ask is will a level 1 base be able to repair a battleship as well as export raw materials and import supplies and fuel for 6 divisions? What are the limits and cutoff’s for different size bases?
These items could have huge strategic implications on the game compared to how previous versions played out. I’m cautiously optimistic as I think they could add a large strategic element to the game that has been missing.
BTW: Sunjingfan, I didn’t mean to hijack your thread. I just wanted to comment on Johan’s reply.
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Not very practical. Suicidal if there was any opposition... But possible????
Hmm, don't really know. It was never done in real life afaik, deploying an entire division like that, but if it would be possible I can't say.
As far as I know this is already the case in HOI 2, isn't it?
The reason that you can practically destroy a naval base with Navs is that they have some strategic attack, and that the AI seldom builds and improves their AAA, nor do it use effective air patrols. If a port isn't defended at all, it should be able to bomb down totally.
If there is some high level AAA, it can be quite devastating for you bombers already in HOI 2.