Landing beaches

[unmerged(137340)]

I noticed in HOI2 that landing beaches for amphibious assualts were too numerous in Western Europe. In the Netherlands and Denmark for instance, there are large parts of the coast which are not suitable for large-scale landings on divisional scale due to the extreme tides: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Morze_Wattowe.png

I would suggest to reconsider a lot of supposed landing sites on the map, because a landing is not possible in practable terms. France and Belgium are OK, but the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway are too easy to access compared to the reality. The Norwegian coast is for example too rocky on most places to land thousands of troops to form a beachhead.

 

[FNK_Drake]

I noticed in HOI2 that landing beaches for amphibious assualts were too numerous in Western Europe. In the Netherlands and Denmark for instance, there are large parts of the coast which are not suitable for large-scale landings on divisional scale due to the extreme tides: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Morze_Wattowe.png

I would suggest to reconsider a lot of supposed landing sites on the map, because a landing is not possible in practable terms. France and Belgium are OK, but the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway are too easy to access compared to the reality. The Norwegian coast is for example too rocky on most places to land thousands of troops to form a beachhead.

I agree.

Perhaps even take it further and have a "frontage" for the beaches. That way each beach could land a certain amount of troops before it turns into a massive meatgrinder... too many troops crammed into a small beach means tons of losses.

 

[unmerged(137037)]

Well in HOI2 landing in France was simple - one paratrooper division send to Cherbourg then send there transport fleet and.... we are in France in just 3-6 hours pushing Krauts off :wacko:
Fortunateley in screens from HOI3 i can't see ports/smallports in every province - uff...

We should remember that despite they can land in many provinces, to make progress inland the landing forces will need a port for supplies.
But for sake of A.I. it would be better to have less landing beaches.
I just wonder what about supplies on beaches...limited ? becose if not - transport planes can be your "port".

PS: Sorry for my english.
(in England was harder but nukes can give you entrance to every province - nuke-para-transport)

 

[Striker475]

The worser area is actually Australia.

Landing zones from Melbourne around to Perth and all up the West Australian coast are virtually non-existant. The entire coastline is cliff facings.

The only theoretical landing points, really, would be next to the major cities; Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth. Melbourne would effectively be out - fortifications along Point Nepean combined with the treachery of Bass Strait would stall any landing op. Adelaide is landable, although the same occurs with fortifications requiring breaching. Perth - enjoy your roaring 40s.

I simply find it impossible to believe that the area famously called the Shipwreck Coast is simply the 'oh lets mosey ashore'. There should be a couple of landing points, but nothing like Hearts of Iron 2. Northern Australia, around Darwin and through Queensland, should have more, but southern and eastern Australia should not.

 

[unmerged(20908)]

I think the action of landing itself should be possible in every province accessible from the sea.

Then there would be additional time/frontage/supply penalties for landing in unsuitable places.

This would make an unconventional landing only be insane, not impossible.

 

[unmerged(61331)]

I agree with something like this. There should be places where an amphibious landing is simply impossible. Inclimate weather, terrain and rough seas make a lot of places a danagerous place to hold a landing, even unopposed.
But one thing that bothers me is that every province has only two possibilities: Landable, and not landable.
The result is that either the player knows exactly where the enemy will go, or he has no idea. Ideally there should be different levels of ease for the invaders. So for example, Pass de Calais and Normandy are the ideal choices for the invasion of France, but Brittany can't be ruled out (but neither is it just as good of a choice).

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Regardless of beaches or not, if there is no opposing force then it should be possible to land troops directly in the port cities.

The idea of beaches having limited frontage is pretty good though. The northern German coast would make Overlord style landings very difficult (due to the tides that make the waterline retreat by more than 20 km in some places) but there are several port towns and cities where you could first land commando type units, and then once the area is secure, you could land division sized armies within a few days.

 

[Johan]

a few things

1) There are no ports in Hoi3.. Only naval bases..

2) Only navalbases can take in convoys of supplies&fuel.

 

[Timmetie]

a few things

1) There are no ports in Hoi3.. Only naval bases..

2) Only navalbases can take in convoys of supplies&fuel.

Ha, I'll just not build naval bases as England. Foolproof!

Try and sealion me now!

 

[Markusw7]

Ha, I'll just not build naval bases as England. Foolproof!

Try and sealion me now!

they can still land on the beaches....

 

[Timmetie]

they can still land on the beaches....

I won't fight on the beaches! I won't fight on the fields! I'll fight in the cities where the Germans will have no oil or guns.

Foolproof I tell you!

 

[Markusw7]

I won't fight on the beaches! I won't fight on the fields! I'll fight in the cities where the Germans will have no oil or guns.

Foolproof I tell you!

foolproof except that you will undoubtedly start with navalbases:rofl:

 

[bosman]

We should remember that despite they can land in many provinces, to make progress inland the landing forces will need a port for supplies.

Exactly. So the problem would not be in landing possibility, but with supply delivery (still available by aircraft, or just with lower efficiency).
Maybe just make every (or most) province(s) available for landing, but to those difficult add "landing factor" which could give additional penalty.

 

[JRHINDO]

The worser area is actually Australia.

Landing zones from Melbourne around to Perth and all up the West Australian coast are virtually non-existant. The entire coastline is cliff facings.

I see what you mean, but then what about pointe du hoc then?
US troops at DDay had to climb up the cliff.

I say we add a penalty to attacking no beach provinces:
-Allow only Infantry to attack (how can tanks go up?).
-Attack penalty similar to mountainous area.

But give a surprise bonus for a few hours (2-3).

 

[Lauri]

I don't really think they should have a surprise bonus for it, because it's no more a surprise there than a beach... The germans still saw them coming

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I see what you mean, but then what about pointe du hoc then?
US troops at DDay had to climb up the cliff.

I say we add a penalty to attacking no beach provinces:
-Allow only Infantry to attack (how can tanks go up?).
-Attack penalty similar to mountainous area.

But give a surprise bonus for a few hours (2-3).

The landing at Point du Hoc was a 'battalion' sized operation, so not something you will see in a 'grand strategy game' where a division is the smallest unit on the map

 

[Timmetie]

foolproof except that you will undoubtedly start with navalbases:rofl:

Easy, i'll destroy them in favor of airbases. Isolationism here i come!

 

[Markusw7]

Easy, i'll destroy them in favor of airbases. Isolationism here i come!

you'd have to send your navy to the colonies or to davy jones' locker!

 

[Timmetie]

you'd have to send your navy to the colonies or to davy jones' locker!

Ill base em in Ireland. Let them get invaded. suckers.

Stop poking holes in my foolproof plan.

 

[unmerged(55919)]

Ha, I'll just not build naval bases as England. Foolproof!

Foolproof unless you need ports to send supplies to your overseas forces, then your screwed (of course Britain could give up its empire a few years earlier).