But placing a port hasn't changed from hoi2 so the mulberry discussion didn't influence it.
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I am sorry but this looks like a game-breaker for me. There are only so many beaches in the world that LANDING CRAFT or small boats can discharge division sized units. To open up every coastal hex no matter what the terrain to invasion by division sized units is a huge step backwards towards the realm of fantasy. I guess I will be waiting a few weeks instead of pre-ordering this game, to let others playtest it before I gamble after this news.
Well hopefully the team will allow modders to restrict regions in some way, or perhaps with a patch or an expansion.
I definately want to see how this will play out for invasions and if the AI can choose the proper terrain to land an invasion force with. Since, I'm assuming landing in a mountainous coastal territory will be utter suicide for the attackers.
I definately want to see how this will play out for invasions and if the AI can choose the proper terrain to land an invasion force with. Since, I'm assuming landing in a mountainous coastal territory will be utter suicide for the attackers.
I really hope "frontage" will be different for coasts. After all, Normandy may be relatively flat, but the shoreline is rocky and steep, so you can't land all that many regiments at once.*
That said, I definitely like where this is going.
In fact, I wonder if some of the terrain penalties from HOI2 could not now be converted to frontage issues.
Not all, of course, they also originate from cover or elevation, but at least part of the difficulty of attacking in mountains, for instance is really the narrow approach you're left with.
That said, I definitely like where this is going.
In fact, I wonder if some of the terrain penalties from HOI2 could not now be converted to frontage issues.
Not all, of course, they also originate from cover or elevation, but at least part of the difficulty of attacking in mountains, for instance is really the narrow approach you're left with.
So is the situation that you can build a mulberry dock for deployment THEN only upgrade docks in a targetted province meaning it really does take 180 days per level OR can you build a load of naval bases in advance then lob them all on a province at once, thereby only needing them to be repaired as in Hearts of iron 2?
If option one... that sounds really good assuming the AI will use it too.
If option 2 ... that makes it ridiculously easy for a player and the AI will undoubtedly fail to use it.
Since hearts of iron 2 really fell down on being far too easy to win i'm hoping HOI3 is a better challenge
soooooo.... anyone seen any screen shots showing navalbases as availible to build OR mulberry docks as availible to build anywhere?
Where in the world would there be a coastline where one could not possibly land troops? It could have bad terrain and be easily defended, but, if there is no resistance, you can get troops ashore. Of course this would go far more slowly in certain parts of the world (and a lower infrastructure value would reflect this), but can you name a point on the globe where one physically could not get ashore?
I cant name them but i am absolutely sure there is MANY places in the world where you can not land an armour,mechanized or motorised division.
Even a infantry division needs allot of vehicles to hold supplies.
What i am more worried about is the possibilities to send allot of small annoying invasion forces that just rush inland to take terrain all over the place.
they are all doomed to fail and therefore it should come with some form of punishment to send all those young boys to certain death.
Maybe opposition party rise in popularity or something for democratic states + rise in dissent.
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I imagine if you landed troops all willy nilly that you would eventually run into serious supply problems.
Given how the new supply line system works, landing your troops in a mountainous, 0% Infrastructure region with no ports nearby would be suicide.
Given how the new supply line system works, landing your troops in a mountainous, 0% Infrastructure region with no ports nearby would be suicide.
Yes that what i wrote. But you will still take terrain and have supplies to do so for weeks. So it could be a valid tactic for a game but not in real life.
I doubt if this is a good spot to land an armor division.
http://www.terragalleria.com/parks/np-image.chis10734.html
http://www.terragalleria.com/parks/np-image.chis10734.html
My only concern is that combined with the massive amount of regions in the game now, it's going to be impossible to defend against every conceivable landing. There's just no way you'll be able to have 1 infantry division, let alone 3 on every coastal region in your country.
But it is impossible to defend against every conceivable landing. All defenses are eventually compromised by the enemy given a long enough timeline. Technological progression, strategic innovation, etc.
Yeah, I love that too (assuming it works correctly). The goal was retaking the port of Antwerp, so the distance from port to front would be greatly increased, greatly damaging logistics. In HoI 2 this mattered absolutely not at all (used TC would probably actually go DOWN, for occupying less provinces), now with the distance tax and the limited supplies imported through ports HoI 3 could actually simulate this situation quite well. (Well, the river-port of Antwerp won't be in the game I guess, but you get the point.)
My usual coastal defence in HoI 2, when defending large coastlines, like the Atlantikwall during Barbarossa, was placing 3 division units in the center of 3 beachprovinces.
X representing no beach, B an empty beach and D a defended beach, the coast from Dax to Brest would look: BDXBDBD.
Any landing on undefended beaches (usually 1 to 3 divisions) would imidiately be attacked by the neighbouring troops, and would be destroyed in a few hours.
The AI was usually completely unable to deal with this, so I really hope the AI will invade with more troops and in more places at once, actually making beach defence difficult. Now I think of it, when they do land, I hope they don't rush into the empty hinterland, abandoning their beaches, allowing my troops waiting on the flanks to march right in and cut their entire army off.
I agree, like most of the California coast would be impossible because it's mostly sheer cliffs and ocean.
Assuming you can land there, with the small province sizes, perhaps those cliff zones will have little to no infrastructure.
Well, unless you can find enough peace to ship those men out of there, you lose them forever. Also, how long do those supplies last if you are actually moving and fighting? Most likely few days, at most.
Well, it should be possible to land everywhere on the coast. Most of the smallest provinces are at least 30km wide, I cannot imagine that nowhere on a stretch of 30km of coast would be eligible for a landing. There is almost always some junction where it possible to some extend. However PI has set much more realistic requirements for a successful invasion now (besides a beach landing requirement, which was used in HoI2 to limit the possibilities).
-First there are still the terrain modifiers plus invasion combat model (reduced efficiently for attacker no doubt), so that will limit the number of suitable landing sites.
-Secondly after a successful landing you need to capture a port ASAP in order to sustain a successful invasion (even with the low capacity mulbery). This will too reduce the number of eligible landing sites as having to fight or travel a lot towards a port might become a disaster. The only thing I hope (but I'm quite confident PI did this correctly, as they came up with these ideas for invasion in the first place) is that the AI will "understand" these important bottlenecks as well.
So for the defender depriving the attacker/invader from capturing ports should be sufficient to beat the invasion on a longer timescale. Of course once invasion beach are secured the invader may always move in more troops to improve the change of capturing a port, so swift action on the defender's part is still required.
I would like an answer to this question as well! Why hasn't anyone responded to this excellent question?
I do know that the AI in HoI2 never did parallel building runs, but always built directly by the province interface. Maybe they have restricted the player from doing parallel runs of building as well this time, just like IC in HoI2.
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