Land force limit vs drilling

[Gyrvendal]

Since drilling was introduced to the game, I find +forcelimits modifiers questionably useful once I blob enough. Basically, once I have a large enough income I'll put most of my army on drilling to farm professionalism, which gives great bonuses to troops. However, since the professionalism gain depends on the proportion of your forcelimit that is drilling, having more force limit forces you to have a larger army drilling, costing more money for the same amount of professionalism.

Lately I tend to make a mega stack of pure infantry that I park in my highest supply limit province to drill constantly (even during wars). I sometimes disband part of it to get the manpower back for reinforcements. Do you guys do the same? Also, is there an easy way to temporarily reduce your own forcelimit to farm more professionalism?

 

[Gratak]

Personally prefer recruiting generals for army professionalism. Not saying that I don't drill, but I'm pretty sure that that's usually a minor factor.

 

[Gyrvendal]

Personally prefer recruiting generals for army professionalism. Not saying that I don't drill, but I'm pretty sure that that's usually a minor factor.

Drill costs money, which I often have plenty of by midgame, while buying generals costs monarchpoints, which I'd rather spend on developpment or tech/ideas. It's not mutually exclusive, but to keep professionalism at 100 for the great benefits it gives, you pretty much have to drill non stop.

 

[Dainiuskinas]

Well, I don't do any drilling at all honestly. It costs money for questionably useful benefits. Army drill itself takes a long time to max out and depletes quickly. Professionalism takes even more time to achieve and though it is permanent (except for mercenary recruitment), the bonuses are of really questionable quality for the time and money invested.

I'm open to counter-arguments, if anyone feels like explaining why drilling is better than I think.

 

[Gratak]

Drill costs money, which I often have plenty of by midgame, while buying generals costs monarchpoints, which I'd rather spend on developpment or tech/ideas. It's not mutually exclusive, but to keep professionalism at 100 for the great benefits it gives, you pretty much have to drill non stop.

Recruiting generals costs monarch points, true, but if you only keep the good ones, you usually get a very good pool of generals which is insanely strong in combat (and sieges). So imho, those monarch points are well spent there. And as for drilling... well it not only costs money, it also occupies the armies. They could be conquering new land instead.

Remark: Of course I do not spend those points when I need them for tech/idea-group/institution-dev

 

[Dainiuskinas]

And as for drilling... well it not only costs money, it also occupies the armies. They could be conquering new land instead.

Absolutely my point, not only do the benefits of full professionalism take a long time to get, you also need to have your armies not doing anything.

 

[Gyrvendal]

I'm open to counter-arguments, if anyone feels like explaining why drilling is better than I think.

Well I can tell you why I think it's good at least... The bonus for max professionalism is +10% shock/fire damage and +20% siege ability, which are really nice bonuses IMO and it's relatively easy to keep professionalism at 100% once you get there. Then there is the special abilities:

- at 20% build supply depots : very situational

- at 40% refill garrison: useless IMO

- at 60% it starts getting really good : recover manpower when disbanding. I find this ability really useful because it allows me to overcome the limitation of a small manpower pool by having a large & cheap pure infantry army drilling constantly, which I disband whenever I need the manpower. Combined with the "slacken standards" button, it allows you to rely a lot less on mercs and more on actual manpower.

- at 80% half morale damage to reserves. I've heard this is really good, but frankly have no idea

- at 100% armies drill at double speed, generals cost half price. This one is really great, because it actually allows you to take advantage of the bonuses from drilling without waiting forever to fill the bar and the cheap generals can be rerolled cheaply for better stats.

Then there is the drill modifier: +10% shock/fire damage inflicted -10% damage received, +20% speed. While this modifer doesn't last very long it can really help you with stackwiping the enemy early on with the speed and damage bonuses, making the war easier afterwards.

Anyway I believe the cost of drilling armies is not so great compared to the benefits, especially once you get the trade income rolling, but maybe that's because I don't play WC/speedruns where I am at war 100% of the time.

 

[qwertzuiop]

I think drilling isn't useful for the reasons mentioned above. It costs money, but most importantly it means you cannot use your army for anything else and the drill modifiers just don't last long enough. Army professionalism on the other hand is nice as long as you don't reach the point in the game where you just want to massively spam mercenaries (depending on your playing style, this might happen sooner or later).

That's why I only drill armies if I didn't want to go to war anyway for the next 2 years or so and if I am able to rent out the army as Condottieri to another country while I'm sure its enemies won't reach me. That way, I'm going to gain free army professionalism while the other country pays for the unit upkeep.

I like the bonus for 60% army professionalism because it makes regular armies much more flexible, but I wouldn't go out of my way to reach it. That said, if you also regain manpower for disbanding special units (I never tried this) then this is a great option for countries like Russia because you could just spawn a lot of Streltsy and disband them to refill your manpower pool whenever needed.

 

[Red John]

I drill artillery, and occasionally cavalry (in the early-mid game where it's just superior to infantry). Drilling infantry is a waste, and I'd rather get professionalism through recruiting generals over and over, rather than spending 60 mil developing 1 manpower.

That said, if you also regain manpower for disbanding special units (I never tried this) then this is a great option for countries like Russia because you could just spawn a lot of Streltsy and disband them to refill your manpower pool whenever needed.

Yeah, it works really well with Russia. It's not super ideal as you're giving up pretty good unit boosts, but in a pinch it's invaluable.

 

[$ilent_$trider]

I think the EU4 team should talk to the HoI4 team about army "experience", which is basically what drilling is for EU4, they lose it too fast, even if they stackwipe the other army and lose barely any manpower.
It should be "permanent" unless when you are replacing lost soldiers.
So, if you lost half the men of a brigade, and they had drilling at 100%, they should have it by 50% when fully restored and so on, otherwise, yes, it's pretty much useless unless you are swimming in money and waiting for truces to end.

 

[guachi]

I've only recently com back to EU4 after two years away so drilling/professionalism is a new mechanic. Personally, I think the bonuses for professionalism and drilling should be even higher (or mercenaries shouldn't be allowed to get the full benefit of your nation's bonuses).

Early in the game I have no money to drill. Later in the game I probably won't care as much because my army will be larger than I can reliably drill (I say probably because I haven't gotten to the later part of the game in 1.25 yet)

Maybe if the morale hit were lower so it only took two months to get your morale back? I say two months because if it were one month you could stop drilling at the last day of the month and be at maximum morale on the next day ticking.

 

[bly08]

Drilling is suboptimal for blobbing.

 

[otaats]

I generally like drilling. When it was introduced, it kinda encouraged me to do it and to squeeze out all i can in early game economy. I really rarely drop army maintenance nowadays, except in dire cases like Great Horde, Manchus, Mongolians, etc.

Having high professionalism is like having multiple small mil ideas, which can be useful in some situations. The first game i played after i got CoC was Brandenburg>Prussia. 100% professionalism for them is just insane, all it takes is 80k troops to defeat anything and everything.

 

[True_Heir_of_Rome]

Drilling gives you an edge early in wars and the perks of professionalism are nice but that's not the main draw for me. I extensively used slacken recruiting standards recently to pull of a no mercs WC. That is IMO the main perk of drilling. It's easy enough to farm professionalism points from generals until absolutism hits and you need those mil points to keep legitimacy topped off and rebels suppressed. I was nearly always drilling with some army somewhere, and if I could get that army into battle that's nice, if not no big deal. My only military idea group until I picked up my 8th group(which was well past the point of mattering) was offensive, which has FL +20% so I wasn't exactly depriving myself of available troops.

Drilling is low key pretty good even if it doesn't match the barrage and merc assault strategy some people employ. It's certainly a viable way of playing.

 

[Vulkandrache]

it's relatively easy to keep professionalism at 100% once you get there

This is the important part.

Yes they are

really nice bonuses

But having your army do nothing for ~5 years while costing money to then lose all that bonus after 2 fights is just not worth it.

Profesionalism is easy to raise if you do it slowly.
I have it at 90%+ somewhere between 1600 and 1700 depending on how many mercs i need to rehire
without drilling even once.
If your not filling ot a Mil Idea group those points cap all the time anyway, sometimes i just hire 10 Generals and dismiss 9 of them again just to not waste points.
That gives half of the Prof.

The other half is gained from events.
Most of them are just free Prof for a meaningless penalty.
Whoever thougth the https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Art_of_War_events#Cruelty_of_Mercenaries event needed to have another reason to press the first option was crazy.
That one alone gives well over 10 Prof every game.

 

[PhoenixG]

After using it once in my Mamluks campaign, I rarely drill again. Since it's just not worth your time. The drill effect wears off to quickly for the time you need to spend on it. When you're small you can't effort it and if you're big you want to use your army.

Although the bonuses and ability you get from professionalism is decent. Also I really like the supply depot when fighting big countries. After a big fight, just place one and your reinforce as fast as your enemy. Before supply depot I need to shift consolidate and send all the damaged/empty regiment back how to reinforce at full speed.

Even in a blobbing campaign I always want to have 20 professionalism for that depot.

 

[Vulkandrache]

Before supply depot I need to shift consolidate and send all the damaged/empty regiment back how to reinforce at full speed.

Or you can just use a General with 5 Manouver.

 

[PhoenixG]

Or you can just use a General with 5 Manouver.

well when I need one they are always on a holiday tour leaving the crappy ones behind.

 

[Vulkandrache]

What, a 1/0/5/0 isnt your most gotten General?

 

[PhoenixG]

I only get 4/1/0/0 early game and 1/4/0/0 late game