Land Doctrine Balance - Mass Assault seems worse

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Dec 5, 2021
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I generally like to switch up doctrine choices for variety and roleplay, but I have a very hard time justfying Mass Assault…more than ever. Army Experience is hard to get and at a premium, and most the game youll probably end up only getting the first 2-3 ranks of a doctrine when youre using Army Exp for spirits, division changes, and/or tank templates (unless youre getting into knock down drag out brawls with Germany or Russia)

-Superior Firepower is probably even better than before. The first 3 ranks of it are excellent, and being able to put Suppressive Barrage as a preferred tactic now makes it kind of crazy with how good that tactic is. And the unique army spirit of +5% breakthrough armywide is quite good too.

-Grand Battleplan seems better too. They added in the command power boosts to the tree, and Well Planned Attack and Infiltration are both solid preferred tactics. The army spirit that decreases supply use is very nice too since that is so important now, particularly when combined with the other perks in the tree.

-Mobile Warfare I havent tried out too much yet, but I know you can get army spirits to increase your armywide speed even more, and I have no doubt with the buffs that motorized got this update, they can get crazy powerful with all the unique MW perks. Unexpected Thrust is excellent as a first tier preferred tactic too

-And Mass Assault…seems lacking. The first three tiers are just plain inferior imo. And most the gimmicks of why youd use it before are gone. By the time you can get those manpower bumps (for nations with low core population), youre probably dead or the war has concluded. My silly 25 division 40 width infantry chunks suffer from the combat width changes, so the infantry combat width reduction is kind of pointless. The only gimmicks I can see are the ability to somewhat ignore supply penalties, and some weird abuse of combat width increase with Mass Charge if you dominate the sky with CAS (plane damage potential by CAS is limited by combat width, so in increasing it by 50% via the tactic could mean crazy amounts of damage done by CAS

Sorry for the wall of text lol. Thoughts?
 
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Surimi

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The primary reason to get mass assault was always the supply benefits (the bonus manpower of mass mobilization is nice, but frankly overkill in the vast majority of cases). Those supply benefits are better and more useful than ever with the new supply system being much more granular.

However, I do feel your point about army experience. It takes so long to get deep into the army doctrines, and that does penalize mass assault next to doctrines which are more front-loaded with benefits.
 
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Dec 5, 2021
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The primary reason to get mass assault was always the supply benefits (the bonus manpower of mass mobilization is nice, but frankly overkill in the vast majority of cases). Those supply benefits are better and more useful than ever with the new supply system being much more granular.

However, I do feel your point about army experience. It takes so long to get deep into the army doctrines, and that does penalize mass assault next to doctrines which are more front-loaded with benefits.
I always liked going for the manpower benefits to offset the manpower cost of Total Mobilization. With a lot of minors, they cant field a significant enough army with just 2% of their population. (Total Mob -3% + Extensive Conscription 5%) if you dont want the malus from Service By Requirement (which isnt horrendous but still)

The problem imo is that Grand Battleplan is already very good when it comes to reducing supply…I think its just as good or very close with the army spirit. Or is the unique limit to Out-of-Supply penalties that Mass Assault has really significant?
 

aletoledo

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While it's difficult to progress down the tree before the war, I think it makes more sense that these are unlocked with army XP rather than research. That said, I do wish I could get the infantry width reduction higher up. Considering that division width have been reduced, I think there is something more significant about Mass Assaults width reduction. I'm liking 14w for basic infantry templates and the starting 9 infantry template gives a 14.4w with this doctrine.

honestly though, I haven't fought too much yet, since I usually restart around that time to better optimize my economic build. So this is a bit of paper theory right now.
 
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I generally like to switch up doctrine choices for variety and roleplay, but I have a very hard time justfying Mass Assault…more than ever. Army Experience is hard to get and at a premium, and most the game youll probably end up only getting the first 2-3 ranks of a doctrine
Well the nice thing about mass assault is that when you use it, your wars will drag on for so long that you'll get enough XP to complete the whole tree!
 
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Jays298

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I feel like the good bonuses come too late.

Well the nice thing about mass assault is that when you use it, your wars will drag on for so long that you'll get enough XP to complete the whole tree!

After playing with mobile warfare plus speed bonuses, mass assault just feels slow, like can you retreat any faster?

Oh but bonuses to encircled troops? Yeah we're gonna need that.

Bonus for supply? Sure, that's actually one nice thing about NSB is they got the supply end right for the USSR with some extra range.