Land and Naval Aces concpet

[Oakfan]

This is my idea for adding Aces to land and naval units, if they are not implemented yet. Perhaps a handful of well-known soldiers can become Aces from their respective divisions/ships such as James Hill (Commander British 1st Parachute Brigade), Kenneth Bailey (1st Marine Brigade), Fritz Witt (1st SS Panzer Division ‘Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler’), etc. The users on this forum could provide an extensive list if needed

Using GERMAN ranks as example.

Aces are created by SUCCESSFUL engagements in battle over time. Such as successful attacks and defenses. When the Ace is found, they progress through four levels/ranks.
There are four levels of Land Aces to acquire: Hauptmann, Major, Oberst, Generalmajor.
There are four levels of Naval Aces to acquire, Kapitänleutnant, Korvettenkapitän, Fregattenkapitän, Kapitän zur See
All Aces add a moral boost to the corresponding division. At each level they attain value X to their acquired skill. Once reached level 4, they can be moved to command other units.

Armor Aces
• Tank Aces increase Hard Attack by value X
• Assault Gun Aces increase Defensiveness by value X
• Tank Destroyer Aces increase Piercing by value X

Infantry Aces
• Infantry Aces increase Soft Attack by value X
• Motorized/Mechanized Aces increase Max Speed by value X
• Mountain Aces increase Mountain Attack by value X
• Paratrooper Aces increase Defensiveness by value X
• Marine Aces Amphibious Attack increase by value X

Ship Aces (*Do not know values on ships yet so this is purely speculation)
• Destroyer Ace increase ability to *hunt subs
• Light/Heavy Cruiser Ace increase speed
• Battlecruiser/Battleship Aces increase armor
• Carrier Aces increase *aircraft readiness
• Uboat Aces increase *detection ability

Obviously all value and abilities are subject to change. But you get the general idea. I think this would add a nice aesthetic addition. A personal touch to follow the paths of your acquired Aces. Not enough to be an extreme game changer, or even major balancing issue with the game overall.

 

[Denkt]

Maybe this idea is good but it feels somewhat blooted, maybe fewer types of aces.

 

[phantomrider]

Maybe this idea is good but it feels somewhat blooted, maybe fewer types of aces.

The problem with "aces" is that the direction of HOI4 is to have fewer "leaders" (i.e. no division commanders) in the game because the personnel management problem when you have to keep track of skill levels and special abilities of several hundred separae leaders has been deemed "to much" or more of a hassle in a grand strategy game. (As a micro manager I do not share this opinion but the direction seems clear). To generate now a whole bunch of leaders a lower levels than a division commander doesn't seem to fit with the idea of reducing the personnel management job in the game. In addition, aces at the level of leutenant through colonel (as well as higher ranks) tend to be engaged in combat frequently and directly and so they end up dead a lot as well-- something that also would have to be built into the game. However, in war everyone wants their "heros" and these heros do boost morale as well. The real choice is do you use your aces or heros in a continued combat role (both boosting the ability of their unit but also takinig a significant risk of losing them in combat) or is it better to send them on bond tours (raising overall morale of the country {national unity??}) or in training roles (using their expertise to improve the combat skills of the replacement pools or the new units formed for combat {better org status??}). It would add emersion value though.

 

[Oakfan]

Completely understand having fewer leaders, but this feature would not add direct divisional leaders. There would be little to no management at all. The Aces just become a part of the division, you cannot move them around. They can be killed, hence losing there small increase in abilities, or reach level 4, which will put them in the pool of Generals who can control Armies. This way it gives you the Commanders needed as the game progresses.

 

[bestmajor]

i imagine their colorizers have better things to do ATM then colouring low rankers.
even if the game includes less politicans and generals/admirals, there should be still more than 100 nations ingame, and even a country like Nicaragua needs a hand full of presidents from 1936 to 1948. somebody needs to find the source images, paint them etc (while making sure the source image is not copyrighted). that mounts up to a lot of work.

 

[Oakfan]

This does not have to be out for release. Could be planed for future.

In any case, I assume the Commanders you have access as the game progress started as "low rankers". Were talking about putting the stock AIR ACE type icon on the division. Once he become higher level, BAM, use the images you already have for the Commanders.

 

[PEP]

I really dislike the whole ace concept. It feels so out of place in a grand strategy game such as HoI4. It just doesn't make sense in anything but a tactical game in my opinion.

 

[SpanglishEmpire]

I like the idea of fighter aces but the others just seem wrong to me (no idea but the reason I dont like the others should be reason enough not to like fighter aces)

Wittman 1 man 1 tank in a division of anywhere from 200 to 390 tanks - Does one man really make that much difference to alter the hard attack for the division? Over the entire war he racked up a lot of kills and the one attack down the convoy in the franch village but in single engagements?

Boats goes the same way 1 captain should not influence a fleet figure, the positioning should come from the admiral.

All of these are well covered by unit experience imho

 

[Le_Carabinier]

What in the world is a battleship ace ?

 

[Oakfan]

The name could be anything. Referring to a person on board the ship who adds the value.

 

[Axe99]

You could get around the colourising issue by just having them as names in the UI and not pictures, but it's still a _lot_ of names to find (even if we just make the aces generic to naval/air/land, let alone finding enough appropriate motorised ace names for every nation) and it's highly likely that the impact of training and doctrine would have a far greater effect on combat than a handful of influential high achievers. Probably easier to model training, experience and doctrine properly to get the same effect without extra work that could end up being a lot of micro, potentially exploitable (how long does it take to move a tank ace from the eastern to the western front? How long does it take to move a carrier ace from the Pacific to the Atlantic?) and something the AI would need to be taught how to use effectively. If it was possible to do right, it'd add nice flavour, but I'm not sure the flavour benefits outweight the costs.

 

[Big Nev]

What in the world is a battleship ace ?

I really don't think the idea of an "Ace" sits very well with units. A BB "Ace" would be the equivalent of having an Ace Division.

That said, HMS Belfast (CA) was known to be a "crack" bombardment vessel who's surface gunnery was also very accurate.

Would this be adequately represented by experience alone? - Not IMHO.

Would it be appropriate to give individual ships bonuses from "traits"? - I think so.

Do we need this additional complication? - Definitely not, but it would be nice.

 

[Le_Carabinier]

I really don't think the idea of an "Ace" sits very well with units. A BB "Ace" would be the equivalent of having an Ace Division.

That said, HMS Belfast (CA) was known to be a "crack" bombardment vessel who's surface gunnery was also very accurate.

Would this be adequately represented by experience alone? - Not IMHO.

Would it be appropriate to give individual ships bonuses from "traits"? - I think so.

Do we need this additional complication? - Definitely not, but it would be nice.

Having ships earn traits through experience is a good idea.

 

[Kadanz]

Having ships earn traits through experience is a good idea.

My lord, HMS victorious received the envious trait!

*HMS Victorious starts shooting HMS Quincy because it has bigger guns'..

Really? CKII in a WW2 game?

 

[SpanglishEmpire]

My lord, HMS victorious received the envious trait!

*HMS Victorious starts shooting HMS Quincy because it has bigger guns'..

Really? CKII in a WW2 game?

My Lord Destroyer flotilla I aspires to be a King George class battleship due to the ambitious trait, thats gonna be one hell of a refit.

 

[Mabzie555]

Aces for fighters (or CAS)-- yes sounds great.

Aces for inf/mec/not/cav... Doesn't make much sense to me.

For Armor/TD-- sure, why not? But I doubt this will be added.

Naval? No. The only thing that could make sense is sub aces.

Anyway overall, aces for fighter/cars, Arm/TD, or Subs seem like a good idea, but they should be rare.

Maybe for every 200 planes you have there will be one "ace" good enough to tip the balance a bit.
For every 500 tanks/TDs.
For every 20 Subs.
Something like that.

Honestly I think they will just keep it an air thing, as that is what makes the most sense.