Laissez-Faire = Industrial Collapse?

[Vainglory]

I will try to find examples, but I could swear I had seen multiple people claim that factories have absolute priority over POPs, etc, in buying good for inputs.

You may in fact be right. I cannot find anything that says for certain in the manual or FAQ. The strategy guide can be dismissed instantly because it contradicts itself. Unless I'm wrong this would be hardcoded which means I can't just look inside some files and see.

 

[unmerged(184989)]

Laissez-faire is a disaster!
Interventionist France(1870) : 11000 ind score.
Capitalist France (1870-1880) : 10000-11500 ind score (up-down-up-down)

 

[Vainglory]

Laissez-faire is a disaster!
Interventionist France(1870) : 11000 ind score.
Capitalist France (1870-1880) : 10000-11500 ind score (up-down-up-down)

L-F does indeed seem to need tweaking. Some people are having great success with it (me included), but others are having catastrophes that don't occur under the other three styles.

 

[unmerged(247071)]

Well, I wouldn't recommend Planned Economy, either, as capis are ultimately useful to have around (just not for their choice of which factories should stay and which should go!)
I have had some success with L-F, it's just that capis fail to understand the importance of keeping the armed forces even remotely well-supplied; they seem to think that all those ships and soldiers will be able to forage or something in the two years after a war is declared and before the requisite factories are built (and populated), if they think that far ahead at all.

 

[Dewirix]

I have had some success with L-F, it's just that capis fail to understand the importance of keeping the armed forces even remotely well-supplied; they seem to think that all those ships and soldiers will be able to forage or something in the two years after a war is declared and before the requisite factories are built (and populated), if they think that far ahead at all.

In fairness to the capis, that's not really their problem. In reality, even the most liberal of nineteenth-century governments would have state arsenals for the production of weapons. Expecting private citizens to sit on spare productive capacity 'just in case' is not particularly liberal and furthermore doesn't work.

It would probably make sense to allow even LF governments to subsidise vital military industries, but only those.

 

[unmerged(260909)]

It would probably make sense to allow even LF governments to subsidise vital military industries, but only those.

That I think is the best option distilled down to one sentence...
After all the main issue is that the capis as mentioned above just don't seem too interested in investing into defense oriented industry...
On the other hand they seem to be hitting the sweet spot with industry such as glass, luxury clothes and all that queer stuff...
which is all fine since it usually makes a ton of profit...it's not unusual for me to get lux clothing industries racking up +300, +400 profit late in the game and I usually have many such factories spread around the teritorries

 

[safferli]

That I think is the best option distilled down to one sentence...
After all the main issue is that the capis as mentioned above just don't seem too interested in investing into defense oriented industry...
On the other hand they seem to be hitting the sweet spot with industry such as glass, luxury clothes and all that queer stuff...
which is all fine since it usually makes a ton of profit...it's not unusual for me to get lux clothing industries racking up +300, +400 profit late in the game and I usually have many such factories spread around the teritorries

Guards need luxury clothes, and players will have lots of guards, hence lots of lux clothes demand.

 

[unmerged(262687)]

LF really shines for large GP's in the late game. There's really no need to gravitate towards it before 1900, and even then Interventionism is still a bit better IMO. Unless you playing a democracy and cannot switch parties, or just want LF for RP or ideological reasons, keep LF governments out of power until the economic micromanagement becomes too hectic.

 

[unmerged(247071)]

Guards need luxury clothes, and players will have lots of guards, hence lots of lux clothes demand.

In my experience, lux clothes need among guards is only a fraction of the need among pops... although with a nation that can afford to pay military upkeep, it's the lux clothes for the guards that you can assume will be bought.

 

[gadajs]

Laissez faire is actually pretty good in the mid game. The trick is to make sure that you have at least one profitable factory in each province, this will generate enough money for your capitalists to eventually industrialize your nation. If you do not have this one profitable factory, then the Capis will typically build one awful factory in a state, which will close and they will then remain bankrupt for the rest of the game as they do not have enough funds to recover.

To fix this, I usually switch to a State capitalist government in the early game, and build a Steel Mill wherever I can, A Lumber mill wherever possible, and a concrete, glass or fabric factory everywhere else. I will typically try to build a few steamer factories once I get the tech. Once I have that going I can usually have a LF government for a few decades until the whole Electric Gear/Automobile era where I will try to manually start up those industries.

 

[safferli]

Laissez faire is actually pretty good in the mid game. The trick is to make sure that you have at least one profitable factory in each province, this will generate enough money for your capitalists to eventually industrialize your nation. If you do not have this one profitable factory, then the Capis will typically build one awful factory in a state, which will close and they will then remain bankrupt for the rest of the game as they do not have enough funds to recover.

To fix this, I usually switch to a State capitalist government in the early game, and build a Steel Mill wherever I can, A Lumber mill wherever possible, and a concrete, glass or fabric factory everywhere else. I will typically try to build a few steamer factories once I get the tech. Once I have that going I can usually have a LF government for a few decades until the whole Electric Gear/Automobile era where I will try to manually start up those industries.

This I also do. With a few profitable factories, LF is great. You only really need 1-3, depending on your size, as capitalists can invest in other provinces as well.

 

[Patton509]

Which is already built into the game.

Also, The domestic Market includes the SoI, but does it include Sattelites?

Actually it is not. Tariffs work in the OPPOSITE fashion of how they should. Subsidizing imports grows domestic industry while taxing imports hurts domestic industry! This is just bizarre in practice. I have explained why a couple of times in this thread so I won't go through the whole explanation again but it largely deals with no direct competition of goods in domestic markets, the fact higher prices for luxury goods that the domestic can't produce means less capitalist savings, and the fact inputs are taxed under tariffs.

 

[gadajs]

This I also do. With a few profitable factories, LF is great. You only really need 1-3, depending on your size, as capitalists can invest in other provinces as well.

See, this is where I think people are going wrong. I might be completely wrong about this, in which case I would love it if someone could correct me. I know that Capitalists can INVEST in other states, but they only make money from factories in their OWN state. Thus if you have say 6 states and only one stat has a core of profitable factories, then the capis in that state will try to industrialize the whole nation, which does not work, as it spreads their resources too thin. Let's be honest here, the algorithms which choose which factories are built are not exactly optimal, thus you end up with states with just one closed closed factory and a bunch of broke capis. Thus I like to have at least one basic and profitable factory per state (Steel, Lumber, Cement, Fabric) in the early game before I put it on LF to act as my industrial seed.

 

[unmerged(262687)]

Laissez faire is actually pretty good in the mid game. The trick is to make sure that you have at least one profitable factory in each province, this will generate enough money for your capitalists to eventually industrialize your nation. If you do not have this one profitable factory, then the Capis will typically build one awful factory in a state, which will close and they will then remain bankrupt for the rest of the game as they do not have enough funds to recover.

To fix this, I usually switch to a State capitalist government in the early game, and build a Steel Mill wherever I can, A Lumber mill wherever possible, and a concrete, glass or fabric factory everywhere else. I will typically try to build a few steamer factories once I get the tech. Once I have that going I can usually have a LF government for a few decades until the whole Electric Gear/Automobile era where I will try to manually start up those industries.

This works if those factories that are profitable when you build them are profitable for the entire length of the game. In 1.2 there were serious upheavals in goods availability (cotton, timer, silk, sometimes coal) which could turn a factory making hundreds per day into a bankrupt one. When that happens, the factory that your capitalists were using as an income source dries up, and you would have to switch back to interventionism (or worse, if your idiot capitalists destroyed the once-profittable factory to replace it with yet-another-non-performing fabric factory, then you have to switch to state capitalism or planned economy).

This goods upheaval used to occur around 1880 in 1.2, don't know if it's present in 1.3 as well. In reality, I liked the fact that goods which were once plentiful became scarce. It added an extra uncertainty factor to the game.

 

[bram51]

I was playing columbia and My facotyr's woulden't start. I did everythiong nothing would work.

Suddenly aftehr long work i get conservaatives and reactoinares and my ecomy rises. I reopen a factory I captuerd and all my capatyilist finaly begin to build factory's they begin to build so many. Laizzesz is good to continue when you don't need to watch aftehr it but its needed for controle.


Liberals are good but when your econmy needs you you can't do anything.

 

[unmerged(267157)]

This is good above 1870, in my oppinion, works pretty good.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

LF has three main problems:

(1) It is hard to industrialize with LF, since capitalists will build more or less random factories and not the ones that are really profitable at the time.

(2) The tendency to improve factories instead of building new ones creates an industry with low diverstiy, leading to raw material shortages unless you can secure a sphere of influence and / or enough prestige.

(3) Tarrifs are very, very important under LF. Prevent tariffs at all cost unless you have a large and well situated industry. Otherwise subside your factories to increase industrial growth.

I remember a game as Argentinia where I had -50% tariffs to hold my factories afloat, but after my capis had enough money and a few other factories were build, I could go back to -10% and still made a lot of profit from taxes.

LF can be good during the early game. If you have a few profitable factories and maybe some techs to lower the required ressource input, the throughput bonus from LF will turn your economy into an effective powerhorse.

 

[Tazmaniacs]

Reality and Victoria 2 aren't on speaking terms right now.

For example, in the real economy we don't build far more goods than there is demand for, and when they don't sell by the end of the day, throw it into the sea and do it all again tomorrow.

Tariffs increase the cost of your factories' inputs. Hence they're less profitable.

I've had great success with L-F as Germany post 1900.

That said I think rather than cheaper factories, L-F should grant an efficiency bonus for factories and RGOs. In reality the free market is more efficient than the government.

You've never heard apparently of overproduction & agricultural policies (whether the European one or the American one...) ;-) !

PS: I really like those political assertions such as "in reality the free market is more efficient than the gov" ; I wonder why the US or the EU (for that matter, all countries)
continue to heavily subsidize their industries (in particular but not only agricultural industries)..., isn't it so unreal ? ;-)

 

[Seek75]

Holy thread necro, batman. You do realize that post is from 2011, yes?