Lacking complexity in trade is killing the replayability

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Jutsurai

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Since there is no Dev Diary today, I intended to write my opinions about the game's current situation. Then I realised there is a serious problem: trade. Although it has been discussed many times before, I don't think it gets the attention it deserves. Also, most of the topics I saw was about bugs. The aim of this topic is what are the problems in my opinion, and how to solve them.

What I consider problematics are:

1-) It is actually not trading, but producing and selling. For example; there is trade route to speak of. Although this may have been acceptable considering that age's trade system, trade played a much bigger role in history. In Imperator: Rome, only a producer really gains from trading; while in reality, a city where in the center of many producers gains much more. This is extremely important for trade harbour cities. It was how most of the Phoenician Cities became rich, after all. They didn't have to produce, because they were mostly traders. How can this be solved is not quite easy. I think most easy solution would be to give a country between two trading countries to get a profit. This profit also could be increased by Markets, Roads (more trader chosing your country's route) and even Inns.

2-) It is not actually routes, but teleportation. Pirating was more common (banditing) in land than sea. Every trade caravan was expecting a raid all the time. Some serious wars had the Casus Belli of disrupting trade. This can easily be solved by adding an army stance such as "Raid Caravans" which also gives a Casus Belli to the enemy. Ideally I would expect this will also prevent the goods from being delivered which would seriously hurt trading in both sides; but it may be too much to ask at this point.

3-) Most pacifist and tall plays are actually based on economy in most Paradox games. In order to have a fun tall play two things most be present in my opinion: First, a serious progression system like laws and technology. Although technology was relatively slow until 19th century, I do believe that both Imperator and EU4 has beautiful systems regarding that. Law system is also pretty settled. Buildings (which is a must) are being developed right now which is pretty awesome. Second, a trade and diplomacy system should be settled. I do believe that most problems lie here. Diplomacy should be deeply tied to trade, considering how important it was to import horses. I do believe that "Cancel Trade" should really be an option in diplomacy. This is one of the best ways to hurt an enemy, and it is not something absurd in any age. There also many options that may come into mind.

--

After all; although the game is much more fun right now, there are still a lot to improve. I hope you get the recompensation of your work!
 

Nostalgium

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While I don't agree that the simple trade mechanics are killing replayability, I absolutely agree that it should be something more delved into. Trade deals, embargos and "retailing" should be important facets of diplomacy, and I'm not a huge fan of how it is currently entirely separate from it (with the exception of going deep into the Egyptian trade and crashing your capital bonuses when you declare war on them for that Dead Sea salt). In fact, it would be nice if "enforce trade" was an option, so that if you wanted, you could force the Seleukids to trade you three elephants for as long as the truce lasted, for example.
 

We Who Are About 2 Die

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While I don't agree that the simple trade mechanics are killing replayability, I absolutely agree that it should be something more delved into. Trade deals, embargos and "retailing" should be important facets of diplomacy, and I'm not a huge fan of how it is currently entirely separate from it (with the exception of going deep into the Egyptian trade and crashing your capital bonuses when you declare war on them for that Dead Sea salt). In fact, it would be nice if "enforce trade" was an option, so that if you wanted, you could force the Seleukids to trade you three elephants for as long as the truce lasted, for example.
I like this idea. Do you mind me quoting and linking your post?
 

Exard

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Uhhh....you can trade pretty well. I ran a campaign where I relayed juicy middle east goods to gaul and germania and traded things like amber back into mediterranean. You get full import+export income for the two trades. I really like the trade system in I:R.
 

Jutsurai

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While I don't agree that the simple trade mechanics are killing replayability, I absolutely agree that it should be something more delved into. Trade deals, embargos and "retailing" should be important facets of diplomacy, and I'm not a huge fan of how it is currently entirely separate from it (with the exception of going deep into the Egyptian trade and crashing your capital bonuses when you declare war on them for that Dead Sea salt). In fact, it would be nice if "enforce trade" was an option, so that if you wanted, you could force the Seleukids to trade you three elephants for as long as the truce lasted, for example.

Exactly, another option could be Fabricate Casus Belli to "Enforce Trade". Different types of Casus Bellis are always welcomed in my opinion.They are not that difficult to add either.

Uhhh....you can trade pretty well. I ran a campaign where I relayed juicy middle east goods to gaul and germania and traded things like amber back into mediterranean. You get full import+export income for the two trades. I really like the trade system in I:R.

I am not saying it *weak* and *underpowered*. You can gain a lot of money by trading. But there should more; more diplomatic options or different mechanics regarding trade system. This system will be boring in the long run in my opinion.
 

We Who Are About 2 Die

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Had created a thread that listed out some options to improve trade.

I think we all are seeing the same thing, so I am glad its a general problem the community agrees on. Trade-Diplomacy is empty, so it forces you to play one way... Imperialistic. No one will become your vassal more than a tribute without war. You cannot demand anything in peace besides territory, vassalage, and partition.
 
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