Lack of historical feeling and atmosphere

[MacGregor]

Perhaps there is a barrier to this in the optimization... you could have custom AIs, but the game would operate in real real time.

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

 

[unmerged(56602)]

So you want Paradox to add in extra content that may or may not be used? That's both impractical and a waste of resources from Paradox's point of view.

What people have to accept is that Paradox made the game they wanted to make. If major changes are going to occur then it is up to the users to mod them.

Optional content that may or may not be used is pretty standard in most games... for instance, multiplayer.

Why do Paradox fan-boys always pull the "it's not their fault, it's your fault for not modding it" excuse?

(note: I own EU, EUII, CK, Vicky, Ricky, and HOI2DD... that makes me a fan, but it doesn't make me post lame excuses.)

 

[AdmiralNelson]

Here's an idea to gauge the "extremely moddable" aspect of EU3:

Could you change land masses and the seas? And all the names, and so that you can get a completely fantasy world with fantasy nations and fantasy peoples, and so there would be no pretense of it not being fantasy?

Could you change the cannon units into dragonriders?

If you wanted to change all that, you can. It'd be a lot of work.

Two or so years from now, when EU4 is still on the horizon, I'd like to play EU3. And free speech.

I didn't say you couldn't post. I'm just wondering at your motives. If I didn't care about EUIII, I wouldn't post here criticizing/complaining about it.

 

[Strategos' Risk]

Let's just say that as far as the "historically simulator as a game vs. game with historical trappings" dichotomy goes, I'd pick the side that makes the Europa Universalis series different from Superpower.

 

[AdmiralNelson]

Optional content that may or may not be used is pretty standard in most games... for instance, multiplayer.

Why do Paradox fan-boys always pull the "it's not their fault, it's your fault for not modding it" excuse?

(note: I own EU, EUII, CK, Vicky, Ricky, and HOI2DD... that makes me a fan, but it doesn't make me post lame excuses.)

::edit::This guy responded to a post on the first (or was it second?) page of this thread.

I responded to him, but have decided that it's really not worth it.

 

[EUnderhill]

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

What I mean is that by having a single generic AI the game can run much faster than it would with the individual files. By real real time I mean 1 day = 1 day .

 

[MacGregor]

What I mean is that by having a single generic AI the game can run much faster than it would with the individual files. By real real time I mean 1 day = 1 day .

Oh ok. Well, that's another issue. We should all go back to text based strategy games--to hell with eye candy.

 

[EUnderhill]

Oh ok. Well, that's another issue. We should all go back to text based strategy games--to hell with eye candy.

There are other sites I visit for eye candy...it is nice being over 18 .

As graphics go, if they tell me what I've got, where I've got it, and what the guy in the hex next door has got and whether or not it is pointed at me, I'm good. I like my detail in whether or not and by how much Muscovy had a better harvest than Novgorod and how that will affect their ability to raise armies and whether it moves the spot price in the Vistula basin when Danzig Willie comes a-callin'; and not in telling whether that is a booger in my monarch's beard or merely soup.

 

[cfeedback]

It's still historical and not so deterministic.
I can't understand why people here are complaining.If they want events etc, then play Eu2.Eu3 is just different and if you try to play it without comparing it to Eu2 you'll surelly like it.

I think people are complaining because a lot of people loved EU2, yet still felt it had many areas that could be hugely improved. I tend to play a lot of older games (MOO2, Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic), but EU2 has by far the largest active player base of any game I play published 6 years ago.

What I wanted was AGCEEP with a new engine. I wanted MORE "deterministic" and flavor events, not fewer. I would think that a simple pre-game option to disable events would satisfy those wanting a bland strategy game, rather than a historical simulation.

 

[AdmiralNelson]

I think people are complaining because a lot of people loved EU2, yet still felt it had many areas that could be hugely improved. I tend to play a lot of older games (MOO2, Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic), but EU2 has by far the largest active player base of any game I play published 6 years ago.

What I wanted was AGCEEP with a new engine. I wanted MORE "deterministic" and flavor events, not fewer. I would think that a simple pre-game option to disable events would satisfy those wanting a bland strategy game, rather than a historical simulation.

Those who want a "bland strategy game" don't want to disable events in their entirety. They just don't want to be screwed by historic events that don't reflect in-game reality.

Like many others, you wanted EU 2.5.

 

[cfeedback]

Those who want a "bland strategy game" don't want to disable events in their entirety. They just don't want to be screwed by historic events that don't reflect in-game reality.

Like many others, you wanted EU 2.5.

If it was possible to code an AI intelligent enough to choose the A/B/C/D options based on their current game situation (as a human EU2 player does), that would be EU 2.5 enough for me.

 

[unmerged(40707)]

@Waldzwerg: maybe we transformed an orange into an apple with mods for EU2 too...

@AdmiralNelson: certainly not 2.5 but 3.5 or 4.0
And EU2 was able to avoid silly non-sense event out of context. This is called a trigger but EU2 script engine was really limited in checking complex situation and some things were not available in syntax. How many gold in treasury in order to avoid bankruptcy event, for example, even if other conditions in trigger make perfect sense.

I'm sure EU3 script engine is very powerfull. Only problem is EU3 can't "emulate" what was possible with EU2.

Even if Otacu's idea about leaders is interesting, something comes to my mind but I have no idea if it is reasonable:
1) be able to activate/deactivate random monarch/leaders/advisors for a country by event with commands to create monarchs/leaders/advisors with stats (with modifiers if possible) + "duration". Create a new monarch will "kill" previous one.
2) be able to have events for multiple tags and cultures (EDIT: possible but event firing on a specific date? not sure...)
3) AI for specific tag but if no AI setup, use internal "generic" engine

With this, it is possible to have EU3 as it is now and some people will enjoy it and it is possible to have a more "hard driven" mod (but maybe not as deterministic as it looks like) for other people that will enjoy it it too, at last.

It could be possible to switch from hard driven to standard EU3 in some aspects of the game and at any moment, for example when situation for a country is too far from what the mod intended for this country. Another example could be for the last known monarch of a country and especially if his death was not natural. In this case, just reactivate random monarch for the country one day before the historical death and let engine invent.

Best of both worlds?

 

[Strategos' Risk]

Those who want a "bland strategy game" don't want to disable events in their entirety. They just don't want to be screwed by historic events that don't reflect in-game reality.

Didn't EU1 allow the disabling of random events? Wouldn't it be child's play to have it so that you can have random events without the historic ones?

 

[MacGregor]

There are other sites I visit for eye candy...it is nice being over 18 .

As graphics go, if they tell me what I've got, where I've got it, and what the guy in the hex next door has got and whether or not it is pointed at me, I'm good. I like my detail in whether or not and by how much Muscovy had a better harvest than Novgorod and how that will affect their ability to raise armies and whether it moves the spot price in the Vistula basin when Danzig Willie comes a-callin'; and not in telling whether that is a booger in my monarch's beard or merely soup.

I'm with you 100% there. Give me more meat and less chrome.

 

[AdmiralNelson]

@Waldzwerg: maybe we transformed an orange into an apple with mods for EU2 too...

@AdmiralNelson: certainly not 2.5 but 3.5 or 4.0

I'm sure EU3 script engine is very powerfull. Only problem is EU3 can't "emulate" what was possible with EU2.

Even if Otacu's idea about leaders is interesting, something comes to my mind but I have no idea if it is reasonable:
1) be able to activate/deactivate random monarch/leaders/advisors for a country by event with commands to create monarchs/leaders/advisors with stats (with modifiers if possible) + "duration". Create a new monarch will "kill" previous one.

This has been requested/discussed before, IIRC, and I believe the official response was that it was not possible. There were "wake" & "sleep" commands for monarchs/leaders in EUII so I suppose Paradox understands how to do that.

2) be able to have events for multiple tags and cultures

Already implemented.

3) AI for specific tag but if no AI setup, use internal "generic" engine

With this, it is possible to have EU3 as it is now and some people will enjoy it and it is possible to have a more "hard driven" mod (but maybe not as deterministic as it looks like) for other people that will enjoy it it too, at last.

Once again, I'm afraid the official response has been that this isn't possible. As of now, it can't be modded quite that explicitly but, depending on what you want to achieve, generally "historic" behavior in the AI (in colonization, for example) is being worked on.

It could be possible to switch from hard driven to standard EU3 in some aspects of the game and at any moment, for example when situation for a country is too far from what the mod intended for this country. Another example could be for the last known monarch of a country and especially if his death was not natural. In this case, just reactivate random monarch for the country one day before the historical death and let engine invent.

I don't know about that last bit. Sounds fine, but it is dependent on the ability to add in historic monarchs and historic succession.

Best of both world?

It would be nice.

 

[unmerged(40707)]

About events, is it possible to have an event for a single tag? I wasn't sure of that. If only Bible of script engine was available... or is it already too?

Nothing is impossible. It is only a matter of time and money.

 

[EUnderhill]

I'm with you 100% there. Give me more meat and less chrome.

I also believe that as each subsequent release adds a patty to the burger the AI will start acting in a more historical manner as more and more of the factors that influenced such behavior will be included in the AI algorithms without the need for scripting. I think with EUIII the "training wheels" are off, and there will be stumbles. But it is a necessary step towards a game we will both love. I hope you will be along for the ride.

 

[Nimic]

About events, is it possible to have an event for a single tag?

Do you mean as in an individual nation? It should be possible, since you can make an event not available for a certain nation.

 

[AdmiralNelson]

About events, is it possible to have an event for a single tag? I wasn't sure of that. If only Bible of script engine was available... or is it already too?

Nothing is impossible. It is only a matter of time and money.

Yes. I believe it is simple as typing "tag = XXX."

In the User-Modifications Sub-forum there are some scripting help files. You have to own the game and have registered to get at them, though. (I'll be glad to send them to you, if you want to give me your email address. )

There are some threads about modding in EUIII there, too.

 

[AdmiralNelson]

I think with EUIII the "training wheels" are off, and there will be stumbles. But it is a necessary step towards a game we will both love. I hope you will be along for the ride.

I shall be quoting you in my signature.