Lack of historical events

[Thrake]

Mod´s can do it is not a really good solution, since PDX should have an interest in improving their games... Mods do have some flavour events, so it could be a temporary solution... But just because mods fix it, doesn´t mean PDX shouldn´t look into it aswell

Yeah, I really don't get that argument... I'm buying a finished product, not a modder's tool.

 

[Quaade]

Yeah, I really don't get that argument... I'm buying a finished product, not a modder's tool.

with PDX its a Work in progress, or more it's evolving which make it difficult to make it perfect due to constantly making new stuff... but unlike FO4 where they announced they stopped their DLC under a year from release and promising to keep supporting the game, despite numerous bugs and glitches that haven't been resolved from vanilla, I still prefer the PDX model... so I really don't want them to slack off, just because modders do it... they don't get paid, and to me PDX is a quality stamp... it's hard work checking history, making mechanics and flavour while balancing it, can't hold a modder to that same standard since I didn't pay him, nor did PDX so I can't get pissed at the modder since that's just unfair

 

[LeSingeAffame]

@Quaade
"It´s fair that devs could spend developing times for new mechanics (which modders can do), but it´s not a well curve to get into... What´s not to stop devs from patching the game since modders can do that (some even better and faster) so they can spend even more time devoloping new mechanics modders can use? If you catch my drift there..."
There are things devs can do but modders can't - things are hardcoded for example. And fixing a game =/= adding content.

"The other issue, modders aren´t paid but PDX devs are, from the money we bought the game and DLC from, they should be the one fixing the game and improving... If modders where paid for the work, even just by PDX to not get the spam-mod-stealing but only those approved and paid by PDX and only when the mod is updated regulary, I could get behind the idea of modders doing the devs work... But we shouldn´t rely on modders to do so, they have other stuff to do and they don´t get paid a cent for it..."
But devs are already fixing the game and improving it, even when there are already hundreds, if not thousands, of modders adding their own little content or taking part in a major overhaul. Plus, by adding yourself some small content, the devs may first take your content and add it to the game "4) The User Mod may not claim ANY kind of license or copyright of any kind (You can still have Credits)" thus letting them focus on more important things.

"Modding is however a great tool for some easy fixes and some alternates to vanilla game... And if it´s that easy to make these events, then it shouldn´t be as difficult for some skilled developers to do so that it would take much development time, would it? "
It takes time and ideas to add content. Of course hundreds of players will have more stuff to add than a small team of devs.

"Besides, PDX should listen to their users (not using it all), when they develop the game further and this idea isn´t as bad as some of the other´s I´ve read in the past... Like the one where we should no-cb and swallow all in one war..."
There is a suggestion section, which is read by some devs.

 

[Shebaloso]

@Quaade
"It´s fair that devs could spend developing times for new mechanics (which modders can do), but it´s not a well curve to get into... What´s not to stop devs from patching the game since modders can do that (some even better and faster) so they can spend even more time devoloping new mechanics modders can use? If you catch my drift there..."
There are things devs can do but modders can't - things are hardcoded for example. And fixing a game =/= adding content.

"The other issue, modders aren´t paid but PDX devs are, from the money we bought the game and DLC from, they should be the one fixing the game and improving... If modders where paid for the work, even just by PDX to not get the spam-mod-stealing but only those approved and paid by PDX and only when the mod is updated regulary, I could get behind the idea of modders doing the devs work... But we shouldn´t rely on modders to do so, they have other stuff to do and they don´t get paid a cent for it..."
But devs are already fixing the game and improving it, even when there are already hundreds, if not thousands, of modders adding their own little content or taking part in a major overhaul. Plus, by adding yourself some small content, the devs may first take your content and add it to the game "4) The User Mod may not claim ANY kind of license or copyright of any kind (You can still have Credits)" thus letting them focus on more important things.

"Modding is however a great tool for some easy fixes and some alternates to vanilla game... And if it´s that easy to make these events, then it shouldn´t be as difficult for some skilled developers to do so that it would take much development time, would it? "
It takes time and ideas to add content. Of course hundreds of players will have more stuff to add than a small team of devs.

"Besides, PDX should listen to their users (not using it all), when they develop the game further and this idea isn´t as bad as some of the other´s I´ve read in the past... Like the one where we should no-cb and swallow all in one war..."
There is a suggestion section, which is read by some devs.

I still wasn't able to understand you. What is your point, after all?

 

[Silversweeeper]

I still wasn't able to understand you. What is your point, after all?

- The devs can make currently impossible things possible to some extent. Not only can they introduce new base mechanics that modders cannot touch (e.g. holding types), but they generally also add stuff for modders (divine blood was added long before Zoroastrians for the GoT mod unless I misremember) and even have a thread to report mod issues and a thread to make modding feature requests in rather than just adding whatever they need to make the next patch/DLC work and then letting the modding community make the best of the situation.

- Despite the modding community being quite active the devs are still working on CK2 four years after release. They could have stopped at any point and just let the modders work out a more messy way to do something that they hadn't planned for. If the devs like the features of a mod they can choose to incorporate it as part of a patch or a DLC.

- The dev team is (and has always been) fairly small. The modding community outnumbers them by a wide margin, and there are many who aren't part of the modding community that also have ideas of varying feasibility. Even if all good ideas (which is very hard to find a consensus on) were collected by the devs it would take them much longer to code them than it would take for the modding community to implement the same ideas, and the modding community can create content just because they want it without having to consider things like whether it is profitable or whether it suits the theme of a DLC.

- The devs take suggestions from the community from time to time, and there is an official place to put suggestion threads (though there usually are a few out in the main forum as well). Sometimes community input makes a big difference (the fallout from 2.5 (regardless of your position on it) is giving us the game rules, which previously would have required extensive modding and would have disabled achievements for all versions but the unmodded game), sometimes it doesn't.


The modding community can easily outproduce the devs in sheer volume when it comes to pretty much everything, but only the devs can open up more stuff for the modders- A DLC that didn't have any new mechanics but a lot of events might sell poorly if people figure out that everything in the DLC could be written by modders. Judging by the latest dev diary, free events aren't always appreciated either.

 

[Quaade]

There are things devs can do but modders can't - things are hardcoded for example. And fixing a game =/= adding content.

Yes, and very many things are not hardcoded so this makes that kinda moot

But devs are already fixing the game and improving it, even when there are already hundreds, if not thousands, of modders adding their own little content or taking part in a major overhaul. Plus, by adding yourself some small content, the devs may first take your content and add it to the game "4) The User Mod may not claim ANY kind of license or copyright of any kind (You can still have Credits)" thus letting them focus on more important things.

You stated that they didn´t need to improve the game with flavourful events, since they should concentrate on development... Oh... you really don´t understand disclaimers

It takes time and ideas to add content. Of course hundreds of players will have more stuff to add than a small team of devs

Yes, which is why it´s reasonable to post ideas and suggestions so that devs can draw on inspiration

There is a suggestion section, which is read by some devs.

Devs have admitted that they don´t always check suggestions as much as they would like... However, this is actually quite suited for a discussion in general forum before making a suggestion, so personally I think it´s fine for it to be posted here

 

[Lord_P]

I agree with this idea. Momentuous occasions should be reported as such by the game (e.g. Fall of Constantinople, finishing the Reconquista, a powerful empire forming)

 

[BeyondExpectation]

Similar to the HOI4 major cities falling, whenever Rome, Constantinople and Baghdad change hands to a new religion would be a great time for (optional) popups. The Sack of Bagdad was a turning point in world history, as was the fall of Constantinople. It would also be massive news to all Catholics if a non-christian seized Rome.

Perhaps there could be an option that the player only gets the popup if (s)he has the religion that lost or took the city, along with always and never options.

 

[Simmy93]

I honestly think it would be nice if you hold one of the 'wonders' on the game map. After taking the pyramids or even charlemagnes palace id love to have an event where your ruler simply reacts to their magnitude.

Flavour events are great but a good balance would be key, however what's been suggested so far sounds absolutely grand.

 

[BlackEagle78]

I'm all for events which update the rest of the world on major events. If a Christian conquers Mecca, or a Muslim conquers Constantinople or Rome, I think these events need to be shown to all adherents of these religions (or all characters within a certain region). Same can be done for other such conquests.

 

[Silversweeeper]

I'm all for events which update the rest of the world on major events. If a Christian conquers Mecca, or a Muslim conquers Constantinople or Rome, I think these events need to be shown to all adherents of these religions (or all characters within a certain region). Same can be done for other such conquests.

If the Crusades/Jihads haven't begun yet there are events like that (though it is not specifically Christian/Muslim conquests that are needed, only heretics or someone from any other group).

 

[Magnificent Genius]

I'd be for that. But in addition to flavor, I'd really like there to be some sort of game effect. To use two of the examples in the thread, if the Emperor of the HRE and the daughter of the King of France married, and their heir would inherit both kingdoms, a popup detailing the event would be nice but so would an option to either accept the union, or to get a CB to break the union but take a huge relations penalty with all the vassals of both kingdoms(and possibly the pope). And if say some heathen used the subjugation CB to form a kingdom, you would get some option to send some sort of diplomatic/religious mission or an ultimatum. Because both of those things are big deals, and just having the popup and then having to just be "alright, I'm cool with that" and then deal with a superblob seems kind of silly. I can already see when a blob is forming, and I certainly don't want a popup telling me about it if there's nothing special I can do about it.

 

[Me_]

There are a handful of such events: a heresy becoming major religion, a reformation, mongols sacking major cities, but I agree that there could be much more.

Perhaps the most notable waste of such an opportunity is the Unification of India.

If you form India there is nothing. Nothing. Just nothing. Not even YOU get a notification event, much less the rest of the world.

Roman Empire being restored, Israel reborn, Charlie forming an empire - the world get notified.

India being united? Who cares?

 

[Widowmaker94]

OP has a good idea.

The prospect of events that provide the feel that the world is bigger than you and that your actions are known. That great deeds are known and great events are known... Well... I just happen to like that. Flavor is nice. It's not difficult to mod in, and the relatively simple effort (Compared with adding yet another set of bloody game mechanics) provides a lot of satisfaction.

Wouldn't the restoration of the Kingdom of Solomon be a momentous event worthy of note? Rather than a rather lazy and pithy part of a generally decent DLC? Or say when the Emperor of Hispania presses his own claim on the Eastern Roman Empire and in one fell swoop has nearly reconnected the Mediterranean provinces under a single banner?

 

[Quaade]

I actually come to remember, that when christians takes the holy place in Saxony, an event fires for them burning the tree... Actually made me quite furious and was a neat little flavourful event... Really gave me a good feeling when I reconquered it too

 

[War_lord]

And Renuald the Papillon is a holliwood fictional character, right?

Raynald of Châtillon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raynald_of_Châtillon was a real person, although the "Kingdom of Heaven" version, like most of the characters in that movie, bared so little resemblance to the historical character as to be a work of fiction.