Lack of historical events

[Shebaloso]

I'm ~50h away of surpassing the 1000 hours threshold in this game, and i cannot help but notice how every ruler from each government type ultimately plays the same. I mean, it doesn't matter if you are an irish count or the Holy Roman Emperor, the game, the goals, the style of play, are EXACTLY the same. Which is not something bad per se, because i find it extremely fun, else i wouldn't be near the 1000h.

But there is indeed an extreme lack of variety when playing different rulers/regions that share the same government type and more importantly, how the interaction between independent rulers feels so inadequate. Don't you think that this is partly to blame on the complete lack of historical events? I mean, sure, this game might be the definition of sandbox, but i'm not talking about streamlined events such as those of the Charlemagne start, but merely about flavour events related to a specific title, historical events related to actual historical facts, events that could simulate the interaction (friendship, hostility between kingdoms, etc)?

For example, I was playing as the Byzantines, and the Aztec invasion happened. In a few years, i started receiving events that told me about the Fall of Cordoba, the conquest of the Sioux, and Cheyenne, the unification of the Americas under the Aztecs, and i was actually amazed by that (never before had i played through an aztec invasion). It was probably the first time i didn't feel "alone" in the game, as if there were other things happening in the game other than the byzantine mongol-war i was fighting. And i suddenly realized: Why aren't events such as those already in the game? I mean, i started recalling every seemingly "epic" thing i did in the game: the Reconquista as Castile, The sacking of Paris as Ragnar, handing the Mongols their first defeat with the Ayyubids, enforcing a personal Union over France as England, and many other things. I mean, those are things that actually happened (kind of..) and were "world" changing, and it barely felt like "Cool, what's next?".

Wouldn't it be nice if after a hardly fought war over Toledo with the Castilians we got an event tied with the REAL conquest of toledo? Or if as a viking you actually felt that sacking the Capital of one of the largest carolingian kingdoms was a daunting feat by rewarding you with a cool event and some prestige and vassal opinion modifier?

Or events that could simulate some diplomacy between kingdoms? For example, If i am King of Jersualem and am in good standing with the sultan of egypt and suddenly i received an event about a certain vassal of mine called Renuald the Papillon with the zealous and greedy/cruel traits targeting muslim pilgrim caravans and how the Sultan of egypt is demanding his punishment or he will declare war, wouldn't that be extremely nice? And how about getting an event in the 1200s giving you a casus belli againt Byzantium if you are in an active Crusade and in good standing with the Doge of Venice?

Don't get me wrong, i do think that the abstractions in general are in each player's head, but don't you feel that the abscence of historic events is actually a waste of potential? That they would bring much needed variety to this game?

 

[Quaade]

Actually I kinda agree, there could be some more global and local events that could effect both diplomacy and states...

 

[omega20056]

Some historical events covering the likes of the rise of the Normans, the Magyar migration, or the formation of Kievan Rus would be good.

 

[Griff Lancer]

I'd be willing to buy a dlc devoted to historical events, given that they are somewhat generic, as it would be annoying to see Joan of arc doing her thing every game.




And Renuald the Papillon is a holliwood fictional character, right?

 

[Knotz]

I dig it, certain things like wars, conquests and marriages being flagged as 'important' and firing a little flavorful event would be nice. Not necessarily interested in these important events reflecting, and only being tied to, actual history though.

 

[Shebaloso]

I'd be willing to buy a dlc devoted to historical events, given that they are somewhat generic, as it would be annoying to see Joan of arc doing her thing every game.




And Renuald the Papillon is a holliwood fictional character, right?

A joke dude lol...i simply meant that it wouldn't need to be tied to Renaud de Châtillon's character id...any zealous and greedy catholic vassal would suffice for the event to fire

 

[Rory1237]

Exactly, in so many of my games I can gain huge swathes of land without blinking an eye. I even enjoy the satisfying feeling of being rewarded for securing another province as the Byzantines, it at least brings home how much of an accomplishment such feats would have been considered. This is one thing I feel the devs consistantly miss: the feeling of gravity to any action at all, when I play now all I see are mechanics to use and little else. Simple events to remind me that not only the conquest of North Africa, but even the siege of Damascus, which I didn't even acknowledge, is actually a significant achievement would be appreciated.

 

[Silversweeeper]

Personally, I don't want to see historical railroading (e.g. Rurik and Dyre spawning and heading into Russia if you start in 769, a Norman invasion of England being certain in 867), but some semi-historical flavour when the circumstances warrant it (e.g. like thw Cadaver Synod event) would be nice. However, with the way CK2 history generally turns out it could be very strange with some flavour from history. For example, we already have one of the Mongol city sacking events (Kiev, if I remember correctly) mentioning a church despite Kiev quite possibly not being Christian at the time (if ever), and more such flavour would either feel out of place or require serious religion/culture checks.

 

[Quaade]

Personally, I don't want to see historical railroading (e.g. Rurik and Dyre spawning and heading into Russia if you start in 769, a Norman invasion of England being certain in 867), but some semi-historical flavour when the circumstances warrant it (e.g. like thw Cadaver Synod event) would be nice. However, with the way CK2 history generally turns out it could be very strange with some flavour from history. For example, we already have one of the Mongol city sacking events (Kiev, if I remember correctly) mentioning a church despite Kiev quite possibly not being Christian at the time (if ever), and more such flavour would either feel out of place or require serious religion/culture checks

I don´t believe the idea was for historical railroading, but for flavour and random events... Like your son´s wife, daughter of neighbouring kingdom, gets pregnant with another, could be flavourful written and make divorce or war an option, at least sour the relations between the kingdoms so the fragile alliance ends being dissolved.

Also, like when rumours of a demon child or especiallt gifted child are born in the next kingdom, an ambassador was attacked on his way home or in court, your ambassador accidently slept with the kings daughter and he demands payment or war.

 

[Silversweeeper]

I don´t believe the idea was for historical railroading, but for flavour and random events... Like your son´s wife, daughter of neighbouring kingdom, gets pregnant with another, could be flavourful written and make divorce or war an option, at least sour the relations between the kingdoms so the fragile alliance ends being dissolved.

Also, like when rumours of a demon child or especiallt gifted child are born in the next kingdom, an ambassador was attacked on his way home or in court, your ambassador accidently slept with the kings daughter and he demands payment or war.

All those would be nice (assuming the sleeping around wasn't as bad as the Seduction focus was at release). The reason I brought up railroading was that the Norman conquest was mentioned and I know that some people want stuff like that to be all but guaranteed to happen from an earlier start.

 

[tywinzo]

Fully agree with OP. More historical events please.

 

[Thrake]

For example, I was playing as the Byzantines, and the Aztec invasion happened. In a few years, i started receiving events that told me about the Fall of Cordoba, the conquest of the Sioux, and Cheyenne, the unification of the Americas under the Aztecs, and i was actually amazed by that (never before had i played through an aztec invasion). It was probably the first time i didn't feel "alone" in the game, as if there were other things happening in the game other than the byzantine mongol-war i was fighting. And i suddenly realized: Why aren't events such as those already in the game? I mean, i started recalling every seemingly "epic" thing i did in the game: the Reconquista as Castile, The sacking of Paris as Ragnar, handing the Mongols their first defeat with the Ayyubids, enforcing a personal Union over France as England, and many other things. I mean, those are things that actually happened (kind of..) and were "world" changing, and it barely felt like "Cool, what's next?".

There are events about Mongols conquering various important counties too. I like it more that the game allows you to repeat historical events through game mechanics (Norse prepared invasions,...) and then you do that or you don't than historical railroading like EU4 ibberian wedding or burgundian inheritance where without the event it would happen like in 1 out of 100 game through random PU. I think the most important thing taht it lacks is actual difference in playstyle, there's been work done in reguards to quite a lot of places/people with tribals, nomads, pagans,... but ultimately there's not many differences beetween a Russian Orthodox and an African Myaphysite. I would want more of that kind of differences (maybe more in reguards to culture, or at least culture groups).

 

[Quaade]

All those would be nice (assuming the sleeping around wasn't as bad as the Seduction focus was at release). The reason I brought up railroading was that the Norman conquest was mentioned and I know that some people want stuff like that to be all but guaranteed to happen from an earlier start.

Yeah, but could be done by event and make it circumstancial so it´s not only for norse culture but could ideally happen everywhere...

 

[Shebaloso]

There are events about Mongols conquering various important counties too. I like it more that the game allows you to repeat historical events through game mechanics (Norse prepared invasions,...) and then you do that or you don't than historical railroading like EU4 ibberian wedding or burgundian inheritance where without the event it would happen like in 1 out of 100 game through random PU. I think the most important thing taht it lacks is actual difference in playstyle, there's been work done in reguards to quite a lot of places/people with tribals, nomads, pagans,... but ultimately there's not many differences beetween a Russian Orthodox and an African Myaphysite. I would want more of that kind of differences (maybe more in reguards to culture, or at least culture groups).

But dude, i didn't say anything about wanting streamlined events. If anything, i said i did NOT want them. Furthermore. And it's funny because your example is exactly what would NOT happen here. In EU IV we have such arbitrary events (iberian wedding, iberian union, burgundian inheritance, austria-hungary-bohemia unions, etc) because it is not a dynasty game. Here, we CAN do an iberian union, and in the old way! By asking the lady in marriage directly (or her father..)! A portion of what i'm asking is that ridiculously "important" events in the game don't go unnoticed. A marriage between the Holy Roman Emperor and the French Queen is a pretty big thing, yet we get nothing more than "ok, cool, i accept your marriage proposal. Peace". A simple flavour event such as "And so, in the year 1xxx of our Lord, the marriage between <KaiserHRE> and <QueenFrance> was celebrated by the <religion group> world. There are those, however, who are certainly not keen on the possibility of a future heir ruling <the HRE> and <France> in personal union. Whether this marriage will finally bring peace to the region, or only result in more wars , it remains to be seen."

Or the creation of an empire by force, for example. Isn't the unification of Scandinavia under a heathen lord grievous news for the catholic world? Yet the only thing that currently points to that is the slight color change of some counties and the fact that there's no more norge, svitjod and danmark. Why is the "coronation event" reserved for charlemagne? I think it would be awesome if the creation of an empire was followed by some flavor. After all, it's not every day that we see an empire than our own rise in ck2.

I could go on, but i think you got the idea about some of the flavor i wanted in the game.

 

[LeSingeAffame]

But dude, i didn't say anything about wanting streamlined events. If anything, i said i did NOT want them. Furthermore. And it's funny because your example is exactly what would NOT happen here. In EU IV we have such arbitrary events (iberian wedding, iberian union, burgundian inheritance, austria-hungary-bohemia unions, etc) because it is not a dynasty game. Here, we CAN do an iberian union, and in the old way! By asking the lady in marriage directly (or her father..)! A portion of what i'm asking is that ridiculously "important" events in the game don't go unnoticed. A marriage between the Holy Roman Emperor and the French Queen is a pretty big thing, yet we get nothing more than "ok, cool, i accept your marriage proposal. Peace". A simple flavour event such as "And so, in the year 1xxx of our Lord, the marriage between <KaiserHRE> and <QueenFrance> was celebrated by the <religion group> world. There are those, however, who are certainly not keen on the possibility of a future heir ruling <the HRE> and <France> in personal union. Whether this marriage will finally bring peace to the region, or only result in more wars , it remains to be seen."

Or the creation of an empire by force, for example. Isn't the unification of Scandinavia under a heathen lord grievous news for the catholic world? Yet the only thing that currently points to that is the slight color change of some counties and the fact that there's no more norge, svitjod and danmark. Why is the "coronation event" reserved for charlemagne? I think it would be awesome if the creation of an empire was followed by some flavor. After all, it's not every day that we see an empire than our own rise in ck2.

I could go on, but i think you got the idea about some of the flavor i wanted in the game.

There are probably some mods about that, or you could do your own.
I agree that we need more flavour, and it's always very appreciated when devs add some, but we, as players, can also do it ourselves.
You are not alone in this case, several other players, me included, share your point of view, so it's totally possible to create our own mod for that

 

[Quaade]

There are probably some mods about that, or you could do your own.
I agree that we need more flavour, and it's always very appreciated when devs add some, but we, as players, can also do it ourselves.
You are not alone in this case, several other players, me included, share your point of view, so it's totally possible to create our own mod for that

Mod´s can do it is not a really good solution, since PDX should have an interest in improving their games... Mods do have some flavour events, so it could be a temporary solution... But just because mods fix it, doesn´t mean PDX shouldn´t look into it aswell Personally I prefer playing the game as the devs have created it, also since some mods doesn´t handle balance issues that well... There are some great mods though that I have used from time to time...

Stating he could just "do it yourself", is just a bad suggestion... Having modded myself, it´s not that easy to do and can easily swallow a lot of time just creating one event that is unbalanced or doesn´t work properly... It´s not just something anybody can do or have the time to do, though it´s easier in PDX titles

 

[Shebaloso]

There are probably some mods about that, or you could do your own.
I agree that we need more flavour, and it's always very appreciated when devs add some, but we, as players, can also do it ourselves.
You are not alone in this case, several other players, me included, share your point of view, so it's totally possible to create our own mod for that

Well, i don't want to be rude, but if the "do it yourself and/or use mods" wasn't a bad argument, i don't think i would be here asking for more flavor. There are plenty of reasons why i don't want to play with mods, some of which have already been acknowledged by the devs. Mods don't have the same support as the base game, specially the small ones, mods don't allow you to play on ironman, mods don't allow you to get achievements, mods alter the balance, and many others. But the main one, and i cannot stress enough how important it is, is the following: No, i certainly don't want to do it myself, otherwise i wouldn't have spent hundreds of dollars in a game whose only purpose for me is entertainment.

Don't get me wrong, i don't think i'm ENTITLED to things because i paid for them (well, i'm definitely entitled to the quality/compromise promised, but i have nothing to complain from ck2 and paradox in this sense. Quite the opposite), and i certainly didn't post any of these things as "demands" from the devs. Seeing how PDX is very interested in constantly improving their games not only from their POV but also from their customers', i merely suggested some ways that some things could be improved based on my own perceptions of the game. If the reaction was negative or even mixed, well, i would simply think "perhaps i'm wrong after all" and only then look for mods. But the reactions have been overwhelmingly positive, the vast majority of people here agree with me, which must mean something, right?

Besides, if your reasoning was to be followed, all we would have by now would be the vanilla base game and a shit-ton of mods.

 

[Thrake]

But dude, i didn't say anything about wanting streamlined events. If anything, i said i did NOT want them.

No you didn't. However you asked for "historical events" in your thread title while it's about flavor events depending on ahistorical situations.

I see your point but I still don't see how it would solve this:

But there is indeed an extreme lack of variety when playing different rulers/regions that share the same government type

And so I got confused by your post.

 

[LeSingeAffame]

@Quaade
PDX still have an interest into keeping a team working in CK2 even if there are mods out there. Flavour events are a very simple things to do (harder to balance I agree, but the vanilla game isn't perfectly balanced either), and having players being able to work on it themselves allow PDX to work on different and maybe more important, in their eyes, things like new mecanics (and each DLC brings new ones).

@Shebaloso
Just so you know, you can play on Ironman even with mods - it disables the achievements, but it's still available.

"But the main one, and i cannot stress enough how important it is, is the following: No, i certainly don't want to do it myself, otherwise i wouldn't have spent hundreds of dollars in a game whose only purpose for me is entertainment."
I ... don't understand that.
You have a need, flavour events, some ideas, like what type of events could be covered, and the ability to add it - as I said, events aren't difficult to make, and if you need something you have a whole subforum for that.
But you refuse to do it because you paid for the game ?

The devs don't have the same priorities as you do, and don't have an unlimited amount of time to add everything you want - and when they use the free time they have to add some flavour in the game, a minority of people still expresses their miscontentment. The team seems to work on new mecanics, such as the incoming plagues system, and I think it's fine. Sure, it would be cool to have more flavour events, more is always good - as long as it is interesting of course, but it does not need to be their main priority.

"Besides, if your reasoning was to be followed, all we would have by now would be the vanilla base game and a shit-ton of mods."
Okay so where did you read that I think the devs should not work on the game ? I just said that if you want something in a game, and that if the devs made their game in a way that you can add it yourself if you want, so the devs can focus on something else, then why not take the matter in hands ?

 

[Quaade]

PDX still have an interest into keeping a team working in CK2 even if there are mods out there. Flavour events are a very simple things to do (harder to balance I agree, but the vanilla game isn't perfectly balanced either), and having players being able to work on it themselves allow PDX to work on different and maybe more important, in their eyes, things like new mecanics (and each DLC brings new ones).

It´s fair that devs could spend developing times for new mechanics (which modders can do), but it´s not a well curve to get into... What´s not to stop devs from patching the game since modders can do that (some even better and faster) so they can spend even more time devoloping new mechanics modders can use? If you catch my drift there...

The other issue, modders aren´t paid but PDX devs are, from the money we bought the game and DLC from, they should be the one fixing the game and improving... If modders where paid for the work, even just by PDX to not get the spam-mod-stealing but only those approved and paid by PDX and only when the mod is updated regulary, I could get behind the idea of modders doing the devs work... But we shouldn´t rely on modders to do so, they have other stuff to do and they don´t get paid a cent for it...

Modding is however a great tool for some easy fixes and some alternates to vanilla game... And if it´s that easy to make these events, then it shouldn´t be as difficult for some skilled developers to do so that it would take much development time, would it? Besides, PDX should listen to their users (not using it all), when they develop the game further and this idea isn´t as bad as some of the other´s I´ve read in the past... Like the one where we should no-cb and swallow all in one war...