Lack of Good Starting Nations?

[Adamgerd]

I would recommend Japan. I played it as my first game and it's interesting. It's uncivilized at 1836 and you're not sure whether you'll become under a sphere to civilize so I would recommend starting in 1861. You're partially civilized but due to your high literacy, just pass a reform or 2 and then westernize. Then annex Brunei and Johore and you're large enough to expand where you want. You could expand into Korea and China or expand into the Middle East for it's later oil or expand into Russia or the colonies of Netherlands and as you're sphered by the uS until you're a GP, you're pretty much safe from defensive wars

 

[grimkm]

Great advice, guys. Thank you. I enjoy reading your perspectives on the game.

Would you recommend that I get familiar with the base game before diving into HPM or should I get HPM straight away?

I have almost 1400 hours registered to this game via steam, and thats just the base game (no mods..just dlc). For me it has massive replayability, and ruined my enjoyment of most other games..as I truly enjoy the way the game begins and carries on through building industry, forging alliances, take territory, etc. I only wish that the unciv nations somehow changed a little to give them potential, although you could argue it would detract from the era.

Sometimes I come on here, read a thread, and decide to try another game with a country being discussed.

 

[Number 7]

3.04 has been the default version of HoD since last Christmas. The beta version is still available in the BETAS tab (as is 3.03) but new players don't have to worry about it.

oh nice to know! thanks. ive been only using the beta since it came out

 

[Kovax]

I've only just started playing Vic2, and I've only got the vanilla version (I still need to buy the rest), but I've been having fun and a challenge as Two Sicilies. I made it to Great Power, started sphering the rest of Italy (France is a total greedy maven about holding Sardinia-Piemonte and the Papal States, though) and attacked Austria for Lombardia... and got firmly trounced. So... I'm back to being a secondary power and positioning myself to colonize Africa.

Be aware that Sardinia-Piedmont WILL annex you by decision if/when ANY of the Italian states is taken over by Garibaldi's rebels, unless you're a GP and S-P isn't. Even if you're a GP and they're not, it's a 50-50 chance, so expect to reload if that happens, unless you can intervene in every instance where Garibaldi shows his ugly mug and the locals can't deal with him. I recall seeing his Redshirts spawn with a stack of something like 80K troops in one game, yet in other games it was just constant spawns of up to around 10K troops each time.

 

[WJS]

I just bought HoD last night and started trying it out. It changes strategies in a big way and makes things happen differently (what was once a likely AI decision is now less likely, and vice versa).

One thing I did notice, however, is that in vanilla, I could never update to 3.0 anything. I only was able to update to 3.03 after buying HOD. I don't know why I can't update to 3.04.

 

[WJS]

Be aware that Sardinia-Piedmont WILL annex you by decision if/when ANY of the Italian states is taken over by Garibaldi's rebels, unless you're a GP and S-P isn't. Even if you're a GP and they're not, it's a 50-50 chance, so expect to reload if that happens, unless you can intervene in every instance where Garibaldi shows his ugly mug and the locals can't deal with him. I recall seeing his Redshirts spawn with a stack of something like 80K troops in one game, yet in other games it was just constant spawns of up to around 10K troops each time.

When do the Redshirts spawn? It's 1871 for me, and I've never seen a Redshirt.

 

[aimlessnerd]

I don't like HPM or PopDem that much, but New Nations is great for adding in more flavour and Historical accuracy without completely rewiring the rest of the game.

 

[Kovax]

When do the Redshirts spawn? It's 1871 for me, and I've never seen a Redshirt.

Not 100% sure, but probably starting around 1880 or so. Italy unified in the late 1880s, if I recall. If you can get transit rights, you should be able to prevent them from taking your immediate neighbors, but if they occupy and break one of the other states while you're distracted, it's "game over" for you, automatically.

Stupid design decision, in my opinion. Why would all the other larger states voluntarily give up their sovereignty because Modena or Tuscany has some local rebellion? From a player perspective, having it suddenly go "game over" on you when you're doing fine, and not even aware of the minor incident in some other state, has to be really frustrating, particularly when you find that there's almost nothing you could have done to prevent it.

 

[WJS]

I just reloaded my Sicily game, now being in HoD instead of Vanilla. Egad, it changed things. I had tons of naval bases, and suddenly it became hard to manage my possessions in Tunis, Constantine, Rabat, and the whole of southern Egypt/Ethiopia. It said my naval power was too large.

Anyway, the redshirts immediately started popping up and taking over. I fought a few off, but then figured I should see what happens. I was a #8 ranked Secondary Power, so when the revolution came, I was not offered Italy. However, I was given the choice to fight Italy for hegemony. Tempting, but nah. Too much had changed from Vanilla (Fun game, too. The Confederates were doing fine as a GP and had taken Idaho, while Mexico held onto California to Colorado. Germany formed, but France captured Ostpreussen for some reason. The Ottomans and Sicily were best buds and took turns beating up Egypt. When I was a GP, I had sphered the Ottomans, and then they rose and I fell, and the Ottomans sphered me. Allies the entire time.)

I'm trying as Sicily again, but this time, my first war was for Sardinia. I'm curious to see what happens if Sardinia-Piedmont is conquered before the redshirts rise up. I'm getting used to being France's yes man. Oh, and the Ottomans came to Tunis's defense this time, but we still get to bond over our common love of carving up Egypt.

 

[Adamgerd]

Not 100% sure, but probably starting around 1880 or so. Italy unified in the late 1880s, if I recall. If you can get transit rights, you should be able to prevent them from taking your immediate neighbors, but if they occupy and break one of the other states while you're distracted, it's "game over" for you, automatically.

Stupid design decision, in my opinion. Why would all the other larger states voluntarily give up their sovereignty because Modena or Tuscany has some local rebellion? From a player perspective, having it suddenly go "game over" on you when you're doing fine, and not even aware of the minor incident in some other state, has to be really frustrating, particularly when you find that there's almost nothing you could have done to prevent it.

Yeah historically they united as they spared in large states. Why should I as 2 sickles give up my independence and allow myself to be annexed by a tiny state, just because it said so? At least maybe give an event that then I'll go to war with the state and any state which agreed to join it as Italy where If if win Italy is dismantled and if I lose I am annexed

 

[WJS]

I'm trying as Sicily again, but this time, my first war was for Sardinia. I'm curious to see what happens if Sardinia-Piedmont is conquered before the redshirts rise up. I'm getting used to being France's yes man. Oh, and the Ottomans came to Tunis's defense this time, but we still get to bond over our common love of carving up Egypt.

So this has gotten strange (as all good games do). France sphered and allied with us, the Papal States, and Piedmont (I've got Sardinia now, not calling them S-P anymore). Piedmont and I still hate each other, but you can't war with your sphere members, so that's worrisomely chll right now.

I notice France justifying a war with Spain over concessions in Africa. So I just sort of get ready for a rumble. Sure enough, France declares war on Spain, and calls in their little Italian friends. We accept (although my on-again-off-again ally Modena went off again in an instant). And then the UK and Netherlands join on Spain's side. The UK wants Pondicherry in reparations.

So getting around the Mediterranean without being attacked by the joint UK navy and Spanish Armada is harrowing, to say the least. Nevertheless, I've occupied Malta and joined France in occupying Spanish Africa (which right now is Melilla, and the Tlemcen and Taza regions). But then I get a message from Lucca: they've gone bankrupt and I have a casus belli for repaying debts. So I look around: The Papal States and Piedmont are either deep in Spanish territory or at France's Northern border fending off British/Dutch invaders. Armada is off the Lucca coast for non-Lucca reasons. I'm tempted to just call for white peace (but... Malta and more Africa...) and conquer Lucca because that's one less Italian minor to worry about sphering. Then I'm in position to war for the rest of Piedmont (or, well, Nice and Savoy for now) while armies are busy elsewhere.

...Eh. Spain and the UK are doing fine against the French otherwise. I have to check, but they've likely occupied Guiana and Pondicherry. They probably don't feel like offering white peace to me. It'll probably piss off Austria. But hey.

If only Modena would let me walk across their land. Modena's friggin' connected. It touches all non-Sicilian Italian states and has a coast.

It's... 1846? I think?

(Other fun things around the world: The USA got eastern British Columbia from the UK in a crisis, Scandinavia formed way early, and I have Sinai/Suez.)

 

[Chaos_TLW]

So this has gotten strange (as all good games do). France sphered and allied with us, the Papal States, and Piedmont (I've got Sardinia now, not calling them S-P anymore).

In that case it changes tag to Savoy, does it not?

 

[WJS]

Nope, it's still Sardinia-Piedmont.

 

[Chaos_TLW]

Interesting, I think that might be HPM or some other similar mod that forces a tag change once SP loses Sardegna.

 

[WJS]

So it turns out Garibaldi's Redshirts conquering a minor doesn't mean Game Over for the Two Sicilies. They form Italy, but then you're given the choice of either signing up with Italy (and game over), or not. If you don't, you're still in play, Italy hates you, you gain some militancy and consciousness, and life goes on. In my game, Italy formed (and was already in France's sphere), while Two Sicilies stayed independent. I just became a GP soon afterward, while Italy remains just a Civilized Nation. I'll sphere them and see what happens.

 

[Shinkuro Yukinari]

I would recommend Serbia as a fun starting nation
1. Small size means you can take it easy and relax whilst playing, and also analyze the game
2. Russia protects you
3. Crises are bound to happen, and most often you will get some land without even trying
4. You have a goal, form Yugoslavia
5. You can "eliminate Doner", if you're into that(Why Paradox is so sensitive about this is beyond me)

 

[klingonadmiral]

I'd recommend taking a look at South America, in HPM some really nice unions can be created or recreated (Peru-Bolivia and the USCA are all but doomed in 1836)

No even close to it, the PBC and FRCA are in tricky but perfectly manageable positions in HPM.

As PBC, just immediately surrender to Argentina and Chile, then crush Peru with impunity. From there it's smoth sailing as the PBS will soon grow into a South American power house.

As for the FRCA: mobilize, order a cavalry regiment built, group your troops in Honduras and then charge into the small stack in northern Nicargua. The large stack that has sieged down Manague will then charge into you, but as you are in mountains you will win in like 95% of the times, Then unsiege Managua asap and crush the rest of the rebellion.

Two other fun nations in HPM: Persia and, surprisingly, the Mughals.