Lack of Good Starting Nations?

[RonBurgundy]

So I've been playing Paradox games for a little over a year now and I've been playing a lot of CK2 and EU4. I was originally put off of V2 due to graphics but I've realized that graphics aren't what makes Paradox games good.

With that being said, I get the feeling that playing as large nations isn't that fun or challenging. Is this true? And if it is, is it true for all large nations? I get that the US and Russia might be a bore but what about Spain, Prussia, or even France? Is there good fun to be had with these nations or should I go smaller? Thank you.

 

[grimkm]

The US is quite tricky due to democracy. It also starts with a very small army, and has a number of events..but not a 'fun' nation if you want to war with other strong nations generally.

I find Russia to be heaps of fun. Its starting position, albeit powerful, is abyssmal..but once you get it rolling, its a steamroller.

Spain is a country in a downward spiral. Managing to keep in a GP for the entirety of the game, is always a fun challenge. It has so much potential, but alot of threats.

Prussia, well..for me..probably the most boring out of the bunch you name. Totally OP and invincible once you form Germany. But you have enemies all around you, managing them can be a fine balancing game

France is a little the same, but with less threats and a foothold in the colonial game.

But personally..I quite like the secondary powers..a bit more challening to get them to GP status.

 

[panda_Express12]

No large nation is challenging, but they can be fun.

Spain is a great country to play. They have very low literacy and are quite poor a the start of the game, giving a little early game challenge. Not many great powers will want to ally with you due to being so weak. They have many options on the table. Do you ignore Europe and try to reform the Spanish Empire of old? Or do you want to become THE dominant mainland European power? Either one can lead to an interesting game.

France is basically the UK lite. Very easy and virtually zero threats other than a formed Germany (assuming you ever fail hard enough to let them form), but you will typically have Russia as an ally to offset that. Very snoozeville unless you want an easy game but not as easy as the UK.

Prussia is easy. Forming Germany is super easy and easily makes you the #2 Great Power after the UK. You are surrounded by enemies (France, Russia, and Austria), but your elite and large army and an alliance with the UK typically offsets that. Still a fun game if you love the ability to fight constant wars and win.

 

[Number 7]

I think the three most common suggestions are

1. France - large and safe and doesnt have lots of colonies to manage

2. Netherlands - playing in europe withoit being a major player less stuff to manage

3. Brazil youll suck at industry because brazil lacks coal but brazil is king of south america

THen after getting the mechanics the harder nations are Spain, italian minor, ottomans etc anyone who is weaker.

Japan is usually a fun game but not challenging until you butt heads with russia

 

[RonBurgundy]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I think I might play as Spain when I get the hang of the game. That seems like it's up my alley.

One more question, though. Do you feel that there is a lot of replay ability with this game, as compared to EU4 or CK2? I know I'm going to be playing those games for years to come but I'm not sure about this one. What are your thoughts?

Thanks again

 

[Oliver Twopence]

I have played a lot more V2 than any other Paradox game, but it depends on your interests. I am heavily invested in the period. Certainly, there is enough game here for it to be worth the investment.

Austria is significantly more difficult than Prussia or France, depending on your ambitions. The crisis-mechanic hits them hard, and if you are not carefull the other powers will dismantle you. Requires going all in on military techs to fend off Prussia (where as for most other countries i prioritize culture and industry techs).

Spain is another good candidate. It has a fairly large number of provinces, has a decent population, some good resources, has footholds in Africa and Asia (and in the Americas, though Cuba may prove tricky to hold). A lot of potential, but a much safer pick than Austria.

I personally like the Netherlands. Like Spain, it has a lot of footholds, though her Asian holdings are much more valuable than those of Spain. The colony in South America also gives a neighbour-bonus for when sphering Brasil. If you take Belgium early on (sort of a requirement, really) you get some of the most valuable provinces in the game. A very interesting country to powerplay.

The Ottoman Empire is like Austria in that it as a lot of enemies and few (really none) friends. Litteracy is in the shitter (though that is the case for Spain as well, and Austria is not much better, though I forget the actual numbers), but it has a decent population and access to Africa. A bit more of a struggle, though.

 

[Number 7]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I think I might play as Spain when I get the hang of the game. That seems like it's up my alley.

One more question, though. Do you feel that there is a lot of replay ability with this game, as compared to EU4 or CK2? I know I'm going to be playing those games for years to come but I'm not sure about this one. What are your thoughts?

Thanks again

i feel like there's a lot of replay value in any of the harder nations like Mexico who don't have the game given to them but have to really work at it, and the declining great powers like austria, spain etc. Rising stars are usually fun for 1-2 games, like Japan, Prussia etc. Once you're good at the game, 5 out of the 8 starting GPs are snooze fest.

That being said, the game has a lot more constriction than say, europa. a low population nation in victoria is at the whim of the great powers, because you can't politically isolate a sphered nation yourself (like a GP can), meaning invading johore for gold might end up in the entire royal navy parked outside your only port.. but i do like that part of the game.

 

[aimlessnerd]

Sweden is a fairly decent starting power for learning the mechanics of the game without having to throw your hat in the cage.Mexico would be too if the game didn't make America want to destroy you by giving it free cores on most of your land.

Really Vicky2s biggest issue is that flavour is missing from large numbers of the country loist, so it all becomes very samey outside the top tiers in a way that Ck2, Eu4 and Hoi IV are trying to avoid.

 

[Number 7]

Sweden is a fairly decent starting power for learning the mechanics of the game without having to throw your hat in the cage.Mexico would be too if the game didn't make America want to destroy you by giving it free cores on most of your land.

Really Vicky2s biggest issue is that flavour is missing from large numbers of the country loist, so it all becomes very samey outside the top tiers in a way that Ck2, Eu4 and Hoi IV are trying to avoid.

You call it an issue, but i think Vicky 2 absolutely demolishes HOI IV in quality. They're the two "realism slanted" games, vicky with its economy and HOI... well HOI used to pretend it was realism based but now its a sandbox where conquering the world with luxembourg is just par for the course

 

[Fire and Ash]

The two easiest starting nations in my mind are:

Ireland
Australia

They'll give you time to try your hand at learning everything and enough breathing room for you not to be destroyed. Only downside is they have to be released. If you don't want to release nations then I would suggest:

Sweden - Small but very literate population that will give you a big lead in tech. Conquer some uncivs for a bigger population, form Scandinavia and attack Russia for territory. After that the world is your oyster. You just need to be careful about angering too many of the GPs.
Japan - This one is great because it teaches you how to become a civilised nation. You start with one of the highest literacy among uncivs, tons of resources and good army/navy. Once you civilise you will usually reach GP status immediately. After that just keep attacking China until you have the biggest army in the world and become unstoppable. The biggest advantage you have as Japan though, is that there is no real threat to you. Just avoid annoying GPs and you could end up conquering the whole of China.

 

[Kovax]

Replayability is very high in this game. I've tried several very different approaches to "the same old" GPs, and managed to get some excitement out of them. Prussia is boring, if you do the same thing over and over in each game. If, on the other hand, you focus on dismantling France in one game, and on breaking up or annexing Austria in the next, there's quite a bit of difference. I also played Prussia as a colonial power in one campaign, and ended up with most of South-east Asia and a sizable piece of China as "cores".

One of the best games I had was starting with Austria and releasing Hungary, then reloading as Hungary, as an Austrian satellite. Reached GP status and broke free from Austria in only about a decade or so, but was really very fragile. Got involved in colonization in a big way, but had real trouble holding onto what I had due to a comparatively miniscule army, until I started to be able to recruit from the new territories. Played it out to about 1910 before losing interest due to the scattered colonies requiring too much attention. I don't particularly care for spread out games and having to constantly scroll or click back and forth from one hot spot to another, which eventually most GP nations require.

 

[WJS]

I've only just started playing Vic2, and I've only got the vanilla version (I still need to buy the rest), but I've been having fun and a challenge as Two Sicilies. I made it to Great Power, started sphering the rest of Italy (France is a total greedy maven about holding Sardinia-Piemonte and the Papal States, though) and attacked Austria for Lombardia... and got firmly trounced. So... I'm back to being a secondary power and positioning myself to colonize Africa.

 

[martianq]

I'd recommend taking a look at South America, in HPM some really nice unions can be created or recreated (Peru-Bolivia and the USCA are all but doomed in 1836)

Also one of the funniest games I had was a Massina to toucouleur to Mali game. West African minors are relatively balanced so your path to Mail is not easy. If that wasn't hard enough, when 1880 comes so do the Europeans, Its unlikely you'll be civilised by then so its one of the toughest challenges VIC2 can through at you. In my game despite achieving relative hegemony in the region, i was crushed and before 1900, the French had completely crushed me. Thinking about it maybe getting into bed with the Brits or Germans would have saved me

 

[aimlessnerd]

You call it an issue, but i think Vicky 2 absolutely demolishes HOI IV in quality. They're the two "realism slanted" games, vicky with its economy and HOI... well HOI used to pretend it was realism based but now its a sandbox where conquering the world with luxembourg is just par for the course

I wasn't speaking of quality though, i was speaking of "flavour". Vicky 2 is and always will be a better game than HoI4 but hoI4, thanks to the new DLC pattern, will be far more flavourful, esp. for lesser nations.

Vicky 3 will ideally keep the same greatness of vicky 2 but also bring in the dedication to making sure the rest of the map isn't devoid of anything but base mechanics.

 

[RonBurgundy]

Great advice, guys. Thank you. I enjoy reading your perspectives on the game.

Would you recommend that I get familiar with the base game before diving into HPM or should I get HPM straight away?

 

[Oliver Twopence]

I am unfamiliar with HPM but if you are prepared to deal with the quirks that may manifest themselves as they sometimes do with mods, I see no harm in it. The base game certainly is lacking in flavour, as aimlessnerd points out above.

That said, it should provide enough to chew on for a beginner. Perhaps it is better to "upgrade" after a few test runs. Might make you appreciate the additions more.

 

[RonBurgundy]

That's what I'll do then

 

[Number 7]

Great advice, guys. Thank you. I enjoy reading your perspectives on the game.

Would you recommend that I get familiar with the base game before diving into HPM or should I get HPM straight away?

make sure you're running the beta patch for 3.04 in steam if you're sticking w/ vanilla for a while, just as an aside. I mostly play vanilla myself and that beta patch is quite nice

 

[martianq]

Great advice, guys. Thank you. I enjoy reading your perspectives on the game.

Would you recommend that I get familiar with the base game before diving into HPM or should I get HPM straight away?

Go straight into HPM, it offers you a lot more choice and variety in terms of nations and their flavour, making it a more fun and immersive experience.

 

[Oliver Twopence]

make sure you're running the beta patch for 3.04 in steam if you're sticking w/ vanilla for a while, just as an aside. I mostly play vanilla myself and that beta patch is quite nice

3.04 has been the default version of HoD since last Christmas. The beta version is still available in the BETAS tab (as is 3.03) but new players don't have to worry about it.