Lack of funds...

[Miinda]

So I was playing the Queen of Lothringen the other day. Had just gathered some duchies and formed my own crown, woo! And I figured that I should be loyal to the Emperor, but when he decided it was time for medium crown authority, then things were just too much! I formed a faction and went to war with him, and the total levy I could raise was somewhere around 4-6k.

I notice him come walking with an army of 12k, where roughly 3-4k are heavy cavalary. He managed this with retuines, which in its core isn't THAT bad I guess. When I click his portrait I notice that he has -1350 gold though, and it's dropping constantly. The only penalty he gets though is that small morale drop. Perhaps there should be greater penalties for having a lack of funds, either through events or that morale of armies simply drop more and more the longer you have negative funds until the finally desert?

I am aware that this is the effect of mercenary units but surely even your most loyal troops would tell you to piss off if you can't afford food and general supplies for them for over a year?

 

[Malebranche]

So I was playing the Queen of Lothringen the other day. Had just gathered some duchies and formed my own crown, woo! And I figured that I should be loyal to the Emperor, but when he decided it was time for medium crown authority, then things were just too much! I formed a faction and went to war with him, and the total levy I could raise was somewhere around 4-6k.

I notice him come walking with an army of 12k, where roughly 3-4k are heavy cavalary. He managed this with retuines, which in its core isn't THAT bad I guess. When I click his portrait I notice that he has -1350 gold though, and it's dropping constantly. The only penalty he gets though is that small morale drop. Perhaps there should be greater penalties for having a lack of funds, either through events or that morale of armies simply drop more and more the longer you have negative funds until the finally desert?

I am aware that this is the effect of mercenary units but surely even your most loyal troops would tell you to piss off if you can't afford food and general supplies for them for over a year?

Mercenaries leave or attack you if you can't pay them.

 

[Hootieleece]

Yeah but he is talking about the Retinues.I was playing a game where I was elected HRE Emperor.In middle of an independence War.I inherited 30+ knights retinues.and I was wondering why I was losing 83 gold/month. Retinues are painfully expensive if "doomstacked"

I ended up disbanding a bunch.

 

[Muskeato]

Yeah but he is talking about the Retinues.I was playing a game where I was elected HRE Emperor.In middle of an independence War.I inherited 30+ knights retinues.and I was wondering why I was losing 83 gold/month. Retinues are painfully expensive if "doomstacked"

I ended up disbanding a bunch.

You can just reduce the amount they reinforce a month which makes them cheaper to maintain.

 

[Hootieleece]

That was after reducing it to half.was losing 133 gold/month, when first inherited. And AI keeps raising troops and sieges take FOREVER.

 

[Gqarz]

Retinues cost almost nothing when they are not taking damage. If they are taking attrition, then move some off to an adjacent territory.

 

[grumphie]

imo the lack of funds should do progressive damage. first, mercs go away. after that, your levies lieve. and at the very end, retinue's abandon you. also, morale recovery is greatly damaged and even worse, you hang at about 50-75 morale instead of 100.

on the other hand, there really should be more ways to gain money when youre in a debt, with a better system(no flat LOL 200 for 25% when you have 1000 debt). a system where you could lend at will for sizes you like with forced intrest payment every year and multiple lending parties and lending trust(count of sennar 0.40 income and want to lend 1000? nope, want to lend 10.000 100 income roman emperor? sure!) would eb epic(could be included ina better econmy DLC with trade ect.)

 

[Hootieleece]

There should be an event for King/Emperor tier titles,(like in CK1) that allows you to raise a onetime tax.How much you get depends on the tyrant malus your willing to accept.

4 options
No tax
25% of debt paid off (-10 malus for 120/months)
50% of debt paid off (-25 malus for 120/months)
90% of debt paid off (-40 malus for 120/months)

Yes you can get the huge debts paid but you would end up with more Factions and rebellions.

 

[tormos]

the problem with the above is that, to my understanding, being in debt was not particularly damaging to feudal lords. As long as they met their liege's levy requirements (i.e. provided their due of armed men) and fed their soldiers they were pretty OK if they didn't also want to hire mercenaries. After all, massive feudal debt is a large part of what gave the mercantilist/urban revolution its start.
(because nobles impoverished by the crusades incorporated towns in exchange for lump sum payments). If anything, this game over-estimates the profitability of the feudal system. From a gameplay standpoint, the "tax vassals" idea seems like it would either be OP (never worry about debt again for a malus that can be wiped out by releasing a prisoner or gaining a few diplomacy points) or so absurdly punishing (increase army morale by causing half the realm to revolt) that it would never be used.
Independent of the above, how often do people actually go into debt? (the only times i have it's been from claim grabbing and lasted ~1 month)

 

[WanderingKnight]

Mercenaries leave or attack you if you can't pay them.

When they attack you and when they just leave you? is there some reason how they act in that case (personality of leader maybe), or it is just randomly? I faced that kind of rebelion once and it was very bad, they just turn there swords onto my "regular" forces in the middle of the war.

Independent of the above, how often do people actually go into debt? (the only times i have it's been from claim grabbing and lasted ~1 month).

It does happend more often if you play as a minor ruler (count or small duke) when you face invade of neighbouring kingdom(s) and your income is not enough to keep up the troops support .

Also, once when I had played as King of Jerusalem I was in dept for hiring some extra mercenaries to fight jihad from surronding muslims, and the Pope "step up" and offered me a help with IIRC 300 gold to fix the dept " Becouse the whole world knew how pious and brave christian I was " . Nice touch.