La Serenissima - A Venetian Divergences AAR

[vyshan]

The much needed political reforms are finally implemented! Given the lack of influence the reactionary conservatives have now, hopefully the colonies can also be reformed. A World's Fair is always good for the prestige and reputation.

I actually wasn't expecting to get enough liberals this quick, but due to a number of events plus the upper house ideology re-balance event thing(where ideologies are checked and re-balanced every now and then) I managed to get the liberals needed to pass the reforms.

Also about the Anthem, while Carlo Pedrotti didn't create it being that it was created in the modern era as an unoffical anthem for the numerous Venetianist parties in Veneto. It was however adapted from the opera by Vivaldi. I quite liked after listening to it so I thought to incorporate some how into this AAR being that Venice did surivive longer then in our timeline.

Interesting development in Spain. I wonder if the Republic will last.

I am wondering the same. I wasn't really focusing on Spain, If it wasn't for the revolutions in Aragon I wouldn't have noticed that spain became a republic; as I was focused largely on the Eastern Mediterranean.

 

[vyshan]

The Bulgarian Crisis
The year of 1853 started out good and peaceful for Venice. The Second round of elections were winding down. The elections of 1853 gave the majority of seats in the Great Council to the Liberal Partito dei Veneti, though the conservative National Party came in a close second. The Partito dei Veneti had plans of pushing apertua further.

Any plans that the Liberals had of pushing Apertua further was delayed for in June a crisis in Bulgaria broke out. The Bulgarians seeing the decline of the Turks decided that now was the time to fight for their freedom. They thus went to the various great powers and sent an envoy to the Anglois in Paris. The Anglois of the Dual-Monarchy choose to back the Bulgarians. This prompted the Turks to seek an ally and the Kingdom of Burgundy supported them in their desire to keep Bulgaria part of Turkey.

In Venice there was great debate if Venice should get involved to support the Bulgarians. In the end the Great Council voted to support the Bulgarians. The largest support came from the councilors from the Greek islands. They did not wish to see the Turks regain power, and it was a fear that if the Turks came out of this on top they could go after the other Balkan states. They had recently finished dealing with all other internal threats and looked at trying to reclaiming territory. Moreover others in the Great council wanted to place Bulgaria in the Sphere of Influence of Venice along with the rest of the Balkans.

However in the Holy Roman Empire, the Bavarians made a play to support Burgundy and thus the Turks. Coming to their side. For a while there was thought that peace could be achieved between the great powers. Unfortunately by September, that proved to be an impossible and war was officially declared on September 22nd 1853 sparking the Bulgarian War that would occupy most of the 1850s.

The power of Steam
The Bulgarian war more then anything showed that the new steam powered ships were a good investment by the Republic. Throughout the war the Venetians provided the bulk of their support through their navy.

The most famous of battles was the Battle of Ionia which took place in the Ionian sea, near Corfu. It was the first engagement between Venice and Turkey in the war. The Venetian navy was outnumbered two to one, yet famously despite the numbers they ran circles around the Turkish fleet. The new canons also proved their worth in this battle. Though the credit also goes to the highly skilled Venetian admiral Luigi d'Absburgo-Toscana

Many other navy battles would engage the Venetian fleets and every time the Venetians came out on top. News of these battles reached Venice and her possessions to great cheer. It was during the early days of the Bulgarian war that the Great Council supported a plan to renovate the Venetian Arsenal. The great factory of the Republic that built the ships in the city proper. The Arsenal helped made Venice the sea power that she was. However by now, galleys were long gone and sailing ships were fading. The power of Steam meant that the Arsenal needed to be modernized and so it was.

After the battles, the Venetian navy began a blockade of Constantinople. This way the Turks would be blocked from Europe to Anatolia and vice versa. The Venetian army would use that time to march towards Bulgaria to begin the Liberation. This blockade would last until the end of the war.

Occupation and defeat
While at first the Venetian soldiers were able to occupy parts of Bulgaria, mostly the areas that bordered Serbia. However where the Venetian Navy was one of the most modern navies in the world if not the most advanced. Their army was not so much advanced. When the Armies of the Turk met the Venetian army, it proved decisively in the favor of the Turks.

The Turkish army would around the same time take the various islands of the Aegean off the coast of Anatolia, notably the Dodecanese. This was however to some degree expected. Those islands were so close to Greece that they would be the first target by the Turks and they were. Though Crete and the islands closer to the Greek Mainland remained unoccupied and would remain occupied.

Then came the news that shocked Venice. In 1855, Burgundy had managed to occupy the city of Ragusa, otherwise known as Dubrovnik. For over a century if not more Dalmatia and the Adriatic coast had managed to avoid the chaos of war when Venice went to war. The republic also knew that baring the Militias and town guards of the various cities, Burgundy had a clear shot for Venice herself.

This resulted in Three major things. First the Venetian army would be sent to try and stop the Bugundians and retake Ragusa. Second modernization of the army became number one priority. Third a meeting with with the Dual-Monarchy to have the Dual-monarchy fight in the Balkans.

Reclaiming
The venetian troops that were being used to fight in Bulgaria received their orders to move back and take the city of Ragusa. Dalmatia could not be allowed to remain captured by the Enemy. The battle of Ragusa, thankfully proved to be a victory for the armies of the Republic. She was by the end of 1855 able to destroy the armies of Burgundy that had come into Dalmatia.

While the Anglois and the Burgundians continued to fight on the plains of France, by late 1855 the Dual-Monarchy had managed to get the upper hand and she was thus able to answer her pledge to Venice and send troops down to the Balkans to fight there.

Thus 1856 began much better then 1855. The venetian army was given new equipment that were based on the designs of the Anglois. She and the Dual-Monarchy finally started to make headway into the Balkans. The Turks however proved resistant to the new combined offensive and made her own preparations to fight back.

By the middle of 1856 the islands of the Aegean were also reclaimed from Turkey. The Greeks were much relieved that the islands were brought back under Venetian control and the Turks were expelled from her shores. By the end of 1856 much of the Balkans were under ailed control and the march towards Constantinople began

Wallachia, Macadonia and Peace.

[The treaty paris in 1857 with the various diplomats from the Powers involved.]

As the year 1857 began, the war was winding down. However around the spring, the elections for the Great Council began up again. The Liberal Partitio dei veneti would win this election. Though in truth seats in the great council hardly changed during this election. People were not interested in the election as much as they were at finishing the war.

In early 1857 The Kingdom of Macedonia and Wallachia formed an alliance and decided to enter the war in order to get territory from the Turks that they wanted. Macedonia wanted Eastern Macedonia while Wallachia wanted Dubradja.

The capture of Constantinople in June of 1857 spelled the end for the Turkish forces. It was around here that the rounds of negotiation for the end of the conflict. All sides agreed that none of the Great Powers territory should be touched. The question of the territory of Turkey proved the most complicated issues. The main issue was over Eastern Macadonia and Dubradja. As Bulgaria claimed both of those areas, while the Macedonia and Wallachia also wanted them. The Dual-Monarchy pushed for both territories to be for Bulgaria while Venice sought to prevent it, to keep the Balkans stable as the Venetian diplomat warned that this would create further conflict. Of course the other reason was to keep it stable under the influence of Venice.

Unfortunately for the republic, she did not get her wish for Bulgaria. The signal to the republic that Bulgaria would be under the influence of the Anglois of the Dual-Monarchy was when the new Tsar of Bulgaria married a princess of the Plantagenet family from the Dual Monarchy. Still on September 12th 1857, the Bulgarian War came to an end. Venice had spent a fortune in trying to liberate Bulgaria. Still she did show the world the power of her steam powered navy, and her military had by the end of the conflict been able to have the most Modern army.

 

[loup99]

A tough war for Venice, but it was good to see that you kept the naval supremacy throughout the war. The Dual-Monarchy might not have been the best ally in the peace though, especially if they now intend on expanding their influence in the Balkans at your expense. As for Constantinople, is that your choice of naming or is the province called that ingame?

 

[vyshan]

A tough war for Venice, but it was good to see that you kept the naval supremacy throughout the war. The Dual-Monarchy might not have been the best ally in the peace though, especially if they now intend on expanding their influence in the Balkans at your expense.

I wasn't at sure at first if I wanted to enter it. Once I did, I had forgotten how bad I ignored my military research. So I started to fix that by researching what I could.

This war did show me one of the odd things about Victoria 2. Namely that despite this crisis being about trying to liberate Bulgaria, there were no rebels or a Bulgaria to fight for their independence, so I along with the ai controlled dual-monarchy did the fighting for the guys seeking independence.

As for Constantinople, is that your choice of naming or is the province called that ingame?

Both actually.

 

[SovereignGrave]

Just curious, who do you imagine the new Bulgarian Tsar would be? I know it's not an important detail; I'm just curious.

 

[hoi2geek]

One question: how is Venice going to address Arcadianism in Athesia?

 

[Attalus]

The new Bulgarian king would not be Native Bulgarian I'd say if we look at OTL. There are some cadet Plantagenet houses that could easily be given a throne, like the house of York. OTL it was a Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha but I think Paris would impose a relative rather than a minor German house.

I think that supporting the Dual-Monarchy was the best thing in that situation but you should not alienate Burgundy for your future endeavors.

One question: how is Venice going to address Arcadianism in Athesia?

DVG thread leaking here

 

[vyshan]

One question: how is Venice going to address Arcadianism in Athesia?

I shall be speaking on that in the next update or so.

Just curious, who do you imagine the new Bulgarian Tsar would be? I know it's not an important detail; I'm just curious.

The new Bulgarian king would not be Native Bulgarian I'd say if we look at OTL. There are some cadet Plantagenet houses that could easily be given a throne, like the house of York. OTL it was a Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha but I think Paris would impose a relative rather than a minor German house.

I will go with that idea then. So seeing as Hanover is not part of any of the spheres of the major players in Germany, a member of the House of Hanover will do. So thanks

I think that supporting the Dual-Monarchy was the best thing in that situation but you should not alienate Burgundy for your future endeavors.

Yea, I regard it mostly as allies of convience. My interests lie in having influence over the balkans and the Eastern Mediterianin principally.

Also something i noticed, Aragon became Catalonia when i went around to checking on them. I assume that was due to Aragon loosing her Italian holdings?

 

[Attalus]

Also something i noticed, Aragon became Catalonia when i went around to checking on them. I assume that was due to Aragon loosing her Italian holdings?

Yep basically. Catalonia ither appears as an Aragonese vassal if they lose Valencia and Aragon regions or Aragon becomes Catalonia if they lose Palermo and Naples.

 

[vyshan]

The Balkan War
True to the warning, not even a year after the ink was dry on the peace treaty that liberated Bulgaria did a war break out in the Balkans. Macedonia and Wallachia felt cheated out of the land that wanted to gain from Turkey. Bulgaria for her part felt that northern Macedonia was Bulgarian territory. This all lead to a war in 1858 between Macedonia and Wallachia on one side and the Dual-Monarchy and Bulgaria on the other.

Venice provided covert aid to the Macedonians and Wallachians. Venice had little interest in actually fighting, but she did want to see Bulgaria regret going over towards the Dual-Monarchy. The Dual-Monarchy despite joining didn't really seek to fight. They joined due to honor but focused mostly on internal matters.

By 1861 the Dual-Monarchy was willing to conceded the territories to Macedonia and Wallachia. Bulgaria herself was utterly beaten and crushed. Most Observers noted that this was due to the Plantagenet needing to deal with internal conflicts and the population having no desire to keep on fighting. the question remains how long can such a peace last.

The completion of Apertua
While the Balkan war raged on, the liberal Partito dei Veneti which had been ruling venice for the past few years worked on furthering and even completing Apertua. To that end they passed in December of 1860 several voting reform laws.

The first and the most important was that all Venetians were now allowed to vote in the Republic regardless of how wealthy you were. Of course it was a weighed voting system so that the patricians and the rising middle class votes mattered more then the poor but now everyone did have the right to vote. Of course running for office required a certain amount of money to do so, but all people seeking to sit on the great council now had to keep in mind the poorest of society when running for the Great Council

Then came the laws granting the rights to the Athesians and the Greeks. The Athesians were the descedents of those who migrated over towards Eleuthera and Athesia, but despite being Venetian and can trace their ancestry back to Venice had lacked voting rights. Thus part of the voting reforms were rights for the Athesians. Though ironically many Athesians still could not vote in the Great Council elections due to Athesia being regarded as merely a colony, but those in the republic proper could vote.

The Greeks on the other hand represented a sizable block of people. They also represented a group which had long been under Venetian control. Crete was ruled by Venice since the 1200s, Cyprus from the 1400s, the Ionian Islands since the 1300s. Thus part of the voting reforms granted rights to Greeks throughout the republic.

To many in the republic, all these reforms meant that Apertua was now over. The republic had reformed itself into a modern republic. There were still a few disgruntled voices, mainly among the radical factions of the Liberal Partitio dei Veneti that said the reforms did not go far enough. They were however a minority as many throughout the republic rejoiced at Apertua being complete.

Despite pushing for the completion of Apertua, the election of 1861 was a victory for the conservative National Party. It was here when a new custom began. While the Grand Chancellor was approved after Apertua began and largely remained the same despite the liberals winning. 1861 marked the beginning of when the parties would support a nominee of a different party. The new grand Chancellor, Giambattista Giustinian, quickly proved his worth as being an efficient administrator for the republic.

The Suez Canal

[The inauguration of the Suez Canal, attended by many from the republic and beyond.]

In 1861 Venice finally began to build and plan a project that they had been wishing to do since the 1400s. A canal from the Mediterranean to the Red Sea. The last time the project was planned the Ottoman Turks had prevented them from being able to get the plan off the ground due to the Turkish invasion of Egypt.

Now in 1861, 400 years later, that was going to change. Venice was the primer power in the Eastern Mediterranean again. Moreover, Egypt was in the sphere of influence of the Republic. So in April of 1861 the plans started. This was going to be a long project, and one that was going to cost a fortune but the prestige and the profits were suggested at making their money back easily and thus the great council approved the plan.

While there were some setback, notably an issue involving the local Bedouin in early 1862, but by the end of 1862 everything had sorted itself out. Things progressed remarkably well for the Venetian project. It was by 1865 that the Suez Canal was finally built. The Egyptian government gave the Venetians control over the Suez canal. The planners were right in that this would make the money back for the republic. Control of the Suez Canal meant that Venice now had access around a quicker route around Africa, this also meant that the growing colonies in the pacific were able to be addressed quicker by the Great Council.

 

[loup99]

The Balkans are already looking like they will earn the same reputation as in our timeline and be the cause of many wars.

Interesting to see that the extension of franchise of reforms ended up favouring the Conservatives. But I guess the population might be a bit tired of reforms and that the rural voters in Greece might be more Conservative.

The construction of Suez and it being in Venetian hands will certainly favour the trade of La Serenissima.

 

[vyshan]

Treaty of Waitangi

[A painting describing the signing of the treaty of Waitangi]

In June of 1866, news reached the Great Council from the Pacific. The republic had managed to get the local Maori tribes to agree to a protection treaty with the Republic of Venice. This treaty of Waitangi, would lay the ground work of control over both the North and south islands. The various Maori tribes were to be under the guidance and protection of the Republic.

This was of great news for the Republic. It also brought some amount of relief. There was some concern that the nation of Zhourao was going to colonize and control the Maori tribes first. It also brought a much more central location that the Venetians can use as another base of operations in the Pacific; one that was much larger then Tahiti.

This of course revived the argument about how to handle all the oversees possessions. Thus came the compromise reform of 1866. All of the Oversees Possessions would be still under the administration of the Stato Da Mar. They were after all domains of the sea. But in turn they would be split into three large regions, the Caribbean, The Pacific and the Mediterranean. each would be in turn have their own administrative regions. Such as Crete and Cyprus for the Mediterranean or Athesia and Sudurhafejyar for the Caribbean.

Fairs and Exploration

[A painting of the World's fair of 1871 that was held in Paris.]
While the Republic expanded outwards expanding the Stato Da Mar. They also worked to further the prestige through various fairs and exhibitions. the prestige of the republic was also helped through an exploration project finally baring fruit.

While Venice was not the seat of the 1863 or 1871 world Fairs, she did attend them. There was no reason why she should not have her own exhibit in the Dual-Monarchy or Vinalnd. While she did not outshine anyone, she also did not do terribly in them either. The 1871 World Fair in Paris, had Venice showing off the prestige of her pacific colonies and what they made.

In June of 1866 there was a regional Trade fair held in Venice. Mostly of those in the Balkans and Italy, to help work out how to keep trade flowing in the Adriatic to prosper for all. While naturally the Fair was to the principal benefit of the Venetians, it also benefited the Italian and Balkan states by agreeing to several new trade treaties. As well as the discussion on the most recent commercial innovations that were arising due to Industrialization.

While the Republic progressed forward, several explorers came back with a discovery. The Republic had sponsored a scientific exploration of the Nile to find out where the source of the Nile River. The leader of the Exploration, Giovanni Miani, named the lake that he believed to be the source of the Nile after Saint Mark, the Patron Saint of Venice. Thus the name of the Lake became known as Lake San Marco.

It also had another reason for cause of celebration in the republic. As not only was scientific progress pushed forward but the team of explorers was made up of practically every ethnicity in the republic, Venetians, Greeks, Croats, Slovenians and more. A symbol of the unity of the Republic.

Venetian Life
While the republic pushed the borders of the republic further and they progressed Science, Life in the republic was also not staying still. Life in the republic was progressing forward as well.

the advancement of the railway throughout the republic which had been linking many parts of the republic from Dalmatia to the mainland finally came to Venice itself. The Republic authorized an expensive project to build a bridge known as the Ponte della Libartà, or Bridge of Liberty. This allowed better and quicker communication with the rest of the Mainland, Istria and Dalmatia. It also helped bring an immigration boon to the city. Of course it also helped people move out to other parts of the republic, as the population of the republic around this time had a rather high birth rate.

It was during this time that the Temperance Movement started gaining notice within the Press. With different newspapers supporting the movement or siding against it. The temperance movement reached across all ethnic groups in the republic, and was opposed by just as many. The growing middle class was feeling that the alcohol was a problem for the republic, the dark seed that would bring down the Serene republic if left un-checked.

They had begun picketing various drinking establishments as a way of protest against the damaging influence of Alcohol. This was the largest action that earned public attention. The councilors for the most part largely left them alone, for the most part many were neutral. Though they did tend to side in favor of the local wine producer rich or small. So for the time being this movement was left alone.

 

[loup99]

The bridge will also probably help against tentatives of foreign blockades, if Venice were to loose the naval superiority in the Adriatic.

It will be interesting to see how the Termperance Movement developes and if it ends up having an impact or not.

 

[vyshan]

The bridge will also probably help against tentatives of foreign blockades, if Venice were to loose the naval superiority in the Adriatic.

Possible. Though I don't see that happening anytime soon. Venice remains queen of the Adriatic.

It will be interesting to see how the Termperance Movement developes and if it ends up having an impact or not.

Same. I am not sure if historically there was a temperance movement in Italy or Greece or how it did in those parts of the world. I am mainly familiar with the historical US one.

Though I do have two small requests.

First I am looking for a name to call New Zealand, as I am not sure if the Dutch(well Burgundians) would have discovered it in this timeline. More over it is controlled by Venice.

Second I am looking for place name ideas for the 'new zealand' provinces, mainly with either venetian or greek origin; seeing as how it is the Venetians and not the British which are doing the colonization.

 

[Attalus]

First I am looking for a name to call New Zealand, as I am not sure if the Dutch(well Burgundians) would have discovered it in this timeline. More over it is controlled by Venice.

You could consider it discovered by Tasman as OTL.

Second I am looking for place name ideas for the 'new zealand' provinces, mainly with either venetian or greek origin; seeing as how it is the Venetians and not the British which are doing the colonization.

Manin instead of Wellington for the capital of the new colony ?

 

[hoi2geek]

Uh, I don't see any mention of Arcadianism and its effect on Athesia in your last two updates.

Are you sure you're going to cover them

 

[vyshan]

You could consider it discovered by Tasman as OTL.
Manin instead of Wellington for the capital of the new colony ?

Alright that works. I also did come up with some names, and left one of the Maori names there. I will show them off in an update around the 1880s to show the Venetian empire and the world before the scramble for africa begins, and before the Germans try to get their stuff together.

Uh, I don't see any mention of Arcadianism and its effect on Athesia in your last two updates.

Are you sure you're going to cover them

Well part of the issue is that in this game Arcadia is rather quiet. Vinland/Platagent/Belgica confederation keep fighting but terretiory hasn't really changed hands. So it doesn't seem like a Pan-Arcadianism is going to happen in this game. Plus my focus has been drawn more towards the pacific and the mediterrianin, But I am trying not to forget about them.

That said, as mentioned above, I will detail more on Athesia and the germanic Haiti(gods that spelling ) as I reveal about the population of the provinces in an update or two.

 

[vyshan]

2nd Balkan war
The peace between the Balkan powers over territory was not resolved. Bulgaria had lost land and sought to regain it and made an alliance with the Kingdom of Serbia. In the spring of 1872, Bulgaria invaded Wallachia to regain the land it lost in the first war triggering, the 2nd Balkan war. Wallachia was supported by their ally Macedonia. Venice remained neutral during the conflict.

In Illyria there was a short civil war between Serbia and Illyria over control of the kingdom that started before the 2nd Balkans war in late 1871. This only lasted a couple of months before ending just in time to watch the rest of the Balkans go to war. Illyria remained neutral to regrow after the civil war.

While there were a number of victories at first for the Bulgaria and Albanians. However the tide did turn and Wallachia and Macedonia were able to move into Bulgaria. Albania for her part proved far better then the Bulgarians. She was able to hold her own and occupy a good part of Macedonia.

The 2nd Balkan war would drag on till June of 1874 when the Treaty of Venice was signed ending the war. This peace was humiliating for both Albania and Bulgaria. Furthermore, the Macedonians forced Albania to give up the province of Debar. Venice oversaw the treaty negotiations as by 1874, all of the Balkans was in her sphere of influence.

Egyptian war for Palestine
Part of the reason that Venice remained neutral was that about a month after the 2nd Balkan war began, the Kingdom of Egypt asked for Venetian aide against the Turks. The king of Egypt sought to claim more of the middle east, particularly the areas of Palestine around the Holy city of Jerusalem. Venice supported less to ensure the conquest of Palestine and more to make sure that the Turks do not win.

A victory for the Turks would mean they are one step closer to the Suez, and holding the Suez was key to Venice's hold over the Mediterranean. For the most part the Turkish forces did the fighting. However, the Venetian navy dominated the seas. This was also when the new ironclad ships proved their worth.

The war was a short war by the spring of 1873, the war came to an end. Turkey was forced to hand over the Province of Palestine. The victory galvanized the Egyptians which now eyed the rest of the Levant as land to take from the Turks.
Tsar of all Russia

[The Coronation of Tzar Alexei I as Tzar of all of Russia]

In Europe, the Grand Duchy of Moscow was finishing up her conquests of Novogorod. By 1877 they had control over all of Novogorod, parts of Finland, and had beaten back the Crimeans. Now they turned their eye to the ailing commonwealth of Polish-Lithuania. A short war, but by the end of 1877, the commonwealth was beaten and parts of the Ruthenia were now part of the Grand Duchy.

However, the Grand Duke decided in 1878 that he would declare himself the Tzar of all Russia. Thus the divided realms of the Rus were finally united under the iron will of the Muscovites. This would begin a new power and upset the balance of power within Europe. Venice remained cautious, but she did work to have good relations with the Tzar and sent Alessandro Guiccioli as her diplomat to witness the coronation of the Tzar. A united Russia meant more markets for the merchants of Venice, and an expanding and growing Russia would have need of Venetian industry to assist in her own growth.

Shahanshah
In the east, more blood was spilled throughout the 1870s. The various Persian and Arab powers of the Middle East were locked in a shifting conflict of war. Venice kept an eye on the conflicts particularly when the Turks joined in the fray and started to win land. Notably when the won land from Sindh and started to conquer the Kurds.

However the balance of Power in the east changed when one of the Persian Shahs declared himself Shahanshah, and set out to conquer the rest of the Persian lands. This of course set off another string of conflicts. However, by 1879, Persia had finally united behind a new dynasty. Venice was delighted at this news. While the Persians were an uncivilized empire, they were looking to modernize and Venice of course was help to trade. More importantly, a strong Persia would help keep the Turks divided and weak.

New parties in Venice
Throughout the 1870s, there were several new political parties to form. there were a number whom were dissatisfied with the current political parties. The Liberal Partito dei Veneti and the Conservative Partito Nasional Veneto had dominated the political discussion and while they had focused on political reforms, even the Conservatives when pushed. They both ignored the social reform desires.

In 1874, the first socialist party of Venice was formed. This was based on the works of the German Karl Marx. They wanted to push for a more fairer and Just society. However, many were concerned by their radical anti-capitalist rhetoric. However, a year later they would suffer a split and more radical members of the Socialist party would form the Communist party of Venice.

There was some concern that they would do well. However the elections of 1875 and 1879 proved that was not correct. the Liberal party was able to keep hold of the Grand Council. This prompted some of the socialists to found another party, Liga Democratica Comunitaria. they decided to soften their radical rhetoric, yet still aiming to push for social reforms working with dissatisfied liberals to push for both social and political reforms.

 

[Attalus]

I wonder where is Venice in GP rankings, I wonder if you have enough land and people to hold on without prestige spam.
Seeing Persia form is a good thing given how rare they form. Luckily they should be able to unify and modernize without too much problems now. (was it Kerman or Teheran that formed Persia ? just to know if we've got a Qajar or a Timurid on the Persian throne)

Also as a sidenote Muscowy is a tsardom at start. They don't rule all the Russias but are still better than grand-duke

 

[vyshan]

I wonder where is Venice in GP rankings, I wonder if you have enough land and people to hold on without prestige spam.

ATM Fifth, but I seem to switch between Fifth and Fourth every now and then. At first, I had to rely on prestige mainly and it is still the thing I am best at. However successful population booms have worked in my favor it seems. As I was able to focus on building up my industry and navy.

Seeing Persia form is a good thing given how rare they form. Luckily they should be able to unify and modernize without too much problems now. (was it Kerman or Teheran that formed Persia ? just to know if we've got a Qajar or a Timurid on the Persian throne)

Teheran I believe formed Persia. So I think that is the Qajar dynasty? I didn't know that Persia was so rare, so yay me.

Also as a sidenote Muscowy is a tsardom at start. They don't rule all the Russias but are still better than grand-duke

Ah. I didn't know that. I went off the pre-unification title that they had OTL of Grand Duke. So I didn't know. I assume their unification is much more common then Persia?