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fighting_falcon93

First Lieutenant
Sep 1, 2017
231
62
Compliance

- I like the compliance system in general, especially that you need to put in some time and effort with lower gains to actually "work up" the territority you annexed, and in return, you get greater benefit from it. It allows for much more interesting gameplay.

- However, the time it takes is completely broken. I started a test round just for the sake of testing this feature, and after 15 years ingame, it's still stuck on 77%. And no wonder, the complience growth is stuck at 0.000% per day, even though I'm not at war and have Civilian Oversight as occupation law. How are we even supposed to reach 80%? How did this get past testing?

- And as if the above wouldn't be funny enough... I used console commands to get the last bit of compliance, just to see what the end reward would be. Look and behold, the end reward is to turn them into a puppet! Really? I don't want a puppet when I have no control over what conscription laws and trade laws it picks, which buildings it decides to destroy or build, or what divisions it decides to train.

- SUGGESTION: Remove the "high compliance" penalty to compliance gain, this is the reason why it's taking so long. In the beggining it went really fast (maybe even too fast), but now at the end, it's just rediculously slow.

- SUGGESTION: When it hits 80% compliance, allow us to turn the territory into a core. Considering how long it takes, that would be the most appropriate reward.

- The -50% non-core penalty to building slots is still there. So basically I have access to more factories than I have building slots for. If I want to rebuild stuff, for example, destroy a naval dockyard so I can build a civilian factory, then that slot gets taken away and I can't get it back.

- Why even have a penalty to building slots? First of all, it doesn't make logical sense, since the buildable area of the state is still the same size regardless of who controls it. Secondly, if we're already limited by the factory percentage value, then why limit it further with reduction of building slots?

- Also, there is still the bug (or maybe it's a feature), that when you annex a state that has got additional building slots through national focuses, these additional building slots also get halved. So for instance, if you annex a state with 4 normal building slots and 6 additional building slots, you end up getting only half of 4 and half of 6 (so 5 in total), when you should have got half of the normal slots (due to the -50% non-core penalty) and all of the additional slots.

- SUGGESTION: Remove the -50% non-core penalty to building slots, since the compliance system itself already takes care of this penalty in a sufficient way.

- The aviable manpower tooltips are also inconsistent. In the topmost bar, the manpower value tooltip says "0.1% of X million", while in the menu Occupied Territories, the manpower value tooltip says "1% of X million".

- When picking forced labour, it's possible to get more than 100% for resources. How is it logically possible to extract more resources than is physically there?

- BUG: Naval dockyards are not counted into the factories. I took a nation which had 1 naval dockyard, but that naval dockyard was nowhere to be seen even when I had more than 50% factories aviable.

- BUG: In the factory percentage tooltip, the icons for civilian factories and military factories have been mixed up. It showed the amount of civilian factories for the military factory icon, and vice versa.

Espionage

- I was looking forward to this, but after testing it, I'm actually quite disappointed.

- Basically, if you're a minor, you can just pretend that this feature doesn't exist. And it's not about the civilian factories, these can be built up as the minor grows. The problem here is the amount of operative slots. Most minors doesn't have any Illusive Gentleman advisor, so they're basically hardcapped to 2 operatives, if they don't want to create their own faction.

- This also means that minors cannot even do some of the operations, such as stealing blueprints for example. Further, when doing operations that only require 2 operatives, whenever doing an operation, they will lose their spy network, because there's no one left to maintain it.

- Meanwhile, majors that are faction leaders, like the UK, can release tiny independent nations all over the place and have over 20 operatives. How did this even get past the design phase?

- And where's the logic that the amount of faction members corresponds to the amount of operatives that a nation can have? It should rather be about money, so rather make each additional operative cost 1 (or multiple) civilian factories.

- You need to allow players to grow minors into majors if you want a true strategy sandbox. One of the most enjoyable things with playing as a minor is to develop it and make it grow, but these kind of hardcaps turns this into an impossile task.

Scout Planes

- I like that we can obtain the positions of enemy divisions with these planes. However, when doing this, the enemy divisions sometimes disappear and then reappear a while later even if they're still in the same position. I don't know if it's intended to be like that, but it feels quite weird.

Recon Companies

- Personally I feel that you've overcomplicated this a bit. What was the problem with just having a single recon company? The support battalions doesn't affect speed anyway, so? Right now it feels like there's a lot more clutter without any real useful purpose.

Code Cracking

- I really like that you've added this to the game. However, currently it feels way too easy to crack someones codes. Basically you just press a button and wait 1-2 years. That's not really what happened in real life, it was a lot more work behind it. Maybe atleast require a high risk operation to successfully obtain an encryption machine from the enemy before the code cracking can start?
 
Last edited:

Beil

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Recon companies now effect speed, this was changed in la resistance. I actually like this change of options giving purpose back to Light tanks later after you get mediums etc. and giving you a choice in stats/speed that may require different equipment.
 

fighting_falcon93

First Lieutenant
Sep 1, 2017
231
62
Recon companies now effect speed, this was changed in la resistance. I actually like this change of options giving purpose back to Light tanks later after you get mediums etc. and giving you a choice in stats/speed that may require different equipment.

Problem is that it completely breakes the "rules" of support battalions. None of the support battalions have ever affected the speed of the division. Now suddenly recon is the only exception. This brings the question, why does the recon company affect the speed of the division, but not the support artillery battalion? Does this mean that we should also get towed artillery/anti-air/anti-tank as support battalions? Towed maintenance? Towed engineer?

In my opinion, it feels like an overcomplicated addition to the game that doesn't really have any real purpose.

In regards to giving light tanks back their purpose, why not allow them to be good at garrison?
 

Beil

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Because the rest of Hoi is not complicated? And yes I would love more options for support companies. Add places for TD and AA tanks/ towed versions. But end of the day they were also giving another reason to use armored cars outside of just garrison work. You also have to remember that it is not just speed the type of support company effects but also armor etc. These options let us add stats at the cost of IC.
 

Dan1109

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Problem is that it completely breakes the "rules" of support battalions. None of the support battalions have ever affected the speed of the division. Now suddenly recon is the only exception. This brings the question, why does the recon company affect the speed of the division, but not the support artillery battalion? Does this mean that we should also get towed artillery/anti-air/anti-tank as support battalions? Towed maintenance? Towed engineer?

In my opinion, it feels like an overcomplicated addition to the game that doesn't really have any real purpose.

In regards to giving light tanks back their purpose, why not allow them to be good at garrison?
It moddable, so Black Ice will have a field day. I except PDS to add more variety of support battalions based on transport in the supposed upcoming Land/SOV DLC. As well, fix this issue - USA artillery was ALWAYS transported by a vehicle, where a lot of GER artillery was transport by horse. I hate the immersion factor of seeing my USA Inf have their artillery drawn by horses, as putting Motorized Artillery as a front line battalion in an infantry division is really not worth it...especially as trucks die like flies. Trucks need to be put into some logistics pool, like the Redball Express - something only oil rich countries can afford to do.
 

fighting_falcon93

First Lieutenant
Sep 1, 2017
231
62
Well if they're going to mess around further with support battalions, they can atleast allow us to put in multiple support artillery battalions. Doesn't make any sense that we can put in as much line artillery we want but only one support artillery.
 

Diomedes

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Great list of analyses and suggestions. I especially like and agree with this suggestion:

- SUGGESTION: When it hits 80% compliance, allow us to turn the territory into a core. Considering how long it takes, that would be the most appropriate reward.

I couldn't agree more.
 

El_Ploplo

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I have three main issues with espionage :
1- The number of operatives available shouldn't be limited, I don't understand why they didn't keep the way it works for generals when each new general cost more PP to recruit. Maybe add a political power cost for running an operation or use a CIV.
2- There is too little things to research, focusing on espionage with UK I had nothing left to research after 1938, even before the war has even started. We should have more level for each espionage focus or increase the time of research (with reducing the number of civ used at the same time) especially when you are in peace.
3- Most of the focus tree have nothing related to espionage. I really like the way that new focus tree are related to espionage mechanics. It really feels organic. However, old focus tree for the most part has no reference at all to espionage. It feels strange, like espionage is not tied to other mechanics, it is a bad design. We should have at least some focus for each major concerning espionage (some majors like UK already have some). I don't want hoi4 to have the same problems than others paradox games where new mechanics added with DLC work completely independently with each other.

Right now espionage is a really disappointment. Because it is really awesome for the most part but some tiny details prevent it to become really great.
 

hangry

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The amount of spies you get compared with the amount of spies you need to keep up a network and do an operation is the single biggest problem with the espionage system. They changed nearly all operations at the end of the development process from needing 1 to 2 spies. You need a reliable way to get a third spy without relying on an having the adviser. The adviser that gives you +1 spy shouldn't be mandatory.

What I really don't like is that operations can't fail. It removes any suspense from the espionage system. Sure the spy can get captured, but so what? The mission will succeed and you can just start a rescue operation with a 100% success rate. Imho more spies, more operations, but operations can fail or even backfire would be more realistic and fun.
 

Lustus

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Scout Planes

- I like that we can obtain the positions of enemy divisions with these planes. However, when doing this, the enemy divisions sometimes disappear and then reappear a while later even if they're still in the same position. I don't know if it's intended to be like that, but it feels quite weird.

It is their job to scout, IF the division is still in position or somewhere else. I think the disappering and reappering simulates the movement of the scout planes. They are not 100% of the time in the air, so there is a gap between each flight.
 

Infin-Vec

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- SUGGESTION: When it hits 80% compliance, allow us to turn the territory into a core. Considering how long it takes, that would be the most appropriate reward.

Strongly agree, annexation is nearly useless now, even fully annexed, you still can't make FULL use of the factories and will still face resistance.
- SUGGESTION: Remove the "high compliance" penalty to compliance gain, this is the reason why it's taking so long. In the beggining it went really fast (maybe even too fast), but now at the end, it's just rediculously slow.
I think they are trying to cap the maximum compliance through this, basically 70% limit, having over 70% compliance will get a higher "high compliance" penalty even REDUCE compliance, occupation policies that decrease compliance gain will lower the limit further.
But why limit compliance to 70%?


Espionage

- I was looking forward to this, but after testing it, I'm actually quite disappointed.

- Basically, if you're a minor, you can just pretend that this feature doesn't exist. And it's not about the civilian factories, these can be built up as the minor grows. The problem here is the amount of operative slots. Most minors doesn't have any Illusive Gentleman advisor, so they're basically hardcapped to 2 operatives, if they don't want to create their own faction.

- This also means that minors cannot even do some of the operations, such as stealing blueprints for example. Further, when doing operations that only require 2 operatives, whenever doing an operation, they will lose their spy network, because there's no one left to maintain it.

- Meanwhile, majors that are faction leaders, like the UK, can release tiny independent nations all over the place and have over 20 operatives. How did this even get past the design phase?

- And where's the logic that the amount of faction members corresponds to the amount of operatives that a nation can have? It should rather be about money, so rather make each additional operative cost 1 (or multiple) civilian factories.

- You need to allow players to grow minors into majors if you want a true strategy sandbox. One of the most enjoyable things with playing as a minor is to develop it and make it grow, but these kind of hardcaps turns this into an impossile task.
Not only the minors, the USSR and Japan is also going to cry as they don't have candidates to bring into faction without make them puppets.
For minors, 2 operatives limit is REALLY not enough, can't steal even a single blueprint, doing an operation will lose all spy network, and once a failed infiltration you can do nothing other than wait 270 days for your operatives to die.
 

Palaiologos

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Problem is that it completely breakes the "rules" of support battalions. None of the support battalions have ever affected the speed of the division. Now suddenly recon is the only exception. This brings the question, why does the recon company affect the speed of the division, but not the support artillery battalion? Does this mean that we should also get towed artillery/anti-air/anti-tank as support battalions? Towed maintenance? Towed engineer?

In my opinion, it feels like an overcomplicated addition to the game that doesn't really have any real purpose.

In regards to giving light tanks back their purpose, why not allow them to be good at garrison?

Its legit that the recon support increases speed. Units in a battlefield dont just drive somewhere-they recon first and then move at slower paces than simply driving a highway. The more efficient your recon precursors are that precede the division is the more efficient the moving of said division is.
 

fighting_falcon93

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Sep 1, 2017
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Its legit that the recon support increases speed. Units in a battlefield dont just drive somewhere-they recon first and then move at slower paces than simply driving a highway. The more efficient your recon precursors are that precede the division is the more efficient the moving of said division is.

The point is that earlier the recon company was abstracted into the appropriate type of recon company. For example, if you added the recon company to an infantry division, it could be seen as it became an infantry recon company. On the other hand, if you added the recon company to a tank division, it could be seen as it became a light tank recon company. Sure, it was the same icon, but it still fulfilled its purpose. With the current change, we still have basically the same functionality as before, but with more clutter.
 

halvorni

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Its legit that the recon support increases speed. Units in a battlefield dont just drive somewhere-they recon first and then move at slower paces than simply driving a highway. The more efficient your recon precursors are that precede the division is the more efficient the moving of said division is.
Agree, but previously you could put whatever you wanted into the support companies without affecting speed. If I've understood it correctly, that is still true, _except_ for the recon companies. That strikes me as a bit odd, although I like the flavour of having different kinds of recon.
 

krios41

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- Basically, if you're a minor, you can just pretend that this feature doesn't exist. And it's not about the civilian factories, these can be built up as the minor grows. The problem here is the amount of operative slots. Most minors doesn't have any Illusive Gentleman advisor, so they're basically hardcapped to 2 operatives, if they don't want to create their own faction.

- This also means that minors cannot even do some of the operations, such as stealing blueprints for example. Further, when doing operations that only require 2 operatives, whenever doing an operation, they will lose their spy network, because there's no one left to maintain it.
I wholy agree with this and i do hope that this will get changed in the enxt patches.
 

Delpheus

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The amount of spies you get compared with the amount of spies you need to keep up a network and do an operation is the single biggest problem with the espionage system. They changed nearly all operations at the end of the development process from needing 1 to 2 spies. You need a reliable way to get a third spy without relying on an having the adviser. The adviser that gives you +1 spy shouldn't be mandatory.

What I really don't like is that operations can't fail. It removes any suspense from the espionage system. Sure the spy can get captured, but so what? The mission will succeed and you can just start a rescue operation with a 100% success rate. Imho more spies, more operations, but operations can fail or even backfire would be more realistic and fun.
The 100% success rate with literally 0 ways to defend yourself is definitely the worst part about the DLC right now.
 

dilk

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Agree, but previously you could put whatever you wanted into the support companies without affecting speed. If I've understood it correctly, that is still true, _except_ for the recon companies. That strikes me as a bit odd, although I like the flavour of having different kinds of recon.

I don't know where the myth is coming from that recon battalions prior to LaR didn't give a speed bonus. That is not true.
It gave a bonus regarding to the terrain type the unit was operating in
 

Funki83

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100% agree.
That espionage system breaks the game. No fun as minor. Thought it would be great to steal some blueprints if u have to start with 2 Researchslots. Ist totally messed up .
If playing UK u won the war before it began, some Coups here and there . No Need to get your army active.
 

dilk

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- Also, there is still the bug (or maybe it's a feature), that when you annex a state that has got additional building slots through national focuses, these additional building slots also get halved. So for instance, if you annex a state with 4 normal building slots and 6 additional building slots, you end up getting only half of 4 and half of 6 (so 5 in total), when you should have got half of the normal slots (due to the -50% non-core penalty) and all of the additional slots.


This is set in defines.lua.
To be honest, I changed that part for myself, because I find it not plausible, that thos factorys disappear all of a sudden.


- The -50% non-core penalty to building slots is still there. So basically I have access to more factories than I have building slots for. If I want to rebuild stuff, for example, destroy a naval dockyard so I can build a civilian factory, then that slot gets taken away and I can't get it back.

- Why even have a penalty to building slots? First of all, it doesn't make logical sense, since the buildable area of the state is still the same size regardless of who controls it. Secondly, if we're already limited by the factory percentage value, then why limit it further with reduction of building slots?


Absolutely right.
I guess that also is set in defines.lua but I can't find the right column in it.
If you do national focus End of CZE, you ending up with bohemia having 13 building slots, but 17 buildings in it or aomething like that.

Does anybody knows where this is defined? I can't imagine that this is hardcoded.
 

King Of Heroes

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Compliance
- And as if the above wouldn't be funny enough... I used console commands to get the last bit of compliance, just to see what the end reward would be. Look and behold, the end reward is to turn them into a puppet! Really? I don't want a puppet when I have no control over what conscription laws and trade laws it picks, which buildings it decides to destroy or build, or what divisions it decides to train.

Is that really all there is to it? Why don't we just conquer or release them as a puppet from the get go then?