• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Andre Bolkonsky

Gazing up at the blue, blue sky
37 Badges
Feb 28, 2002
1.872
1.566
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Empire of Sin
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
This thing of ours. Da Boss of Bosses. The Godfathers, Consiglieres, Capo Regimes, and Soldiers.

I would be interested in hosting a discussion of the American Mafia in the US, from the Castellammarese War to the Commission. Going beyond The Godfather and The Sopranos. Arnold Rothstein, the Jewish 'Brain' that turned the criminal organization into a business during Prohibition and taught Lucky Luciano how to run it like one. The Five Families. Las Vegas. Havana. The war between Capone and the Irish Gangs that resulted in The Chicago Outfit. Frank Costello, the Prime Minister; and Meyer Lansky, the Mob's accountant. Lucky Luciano's alliance with the Jewish mobs under Meyer Lansky, and Lansky getting OSS to give Luciano a lighter prison sentence in exchange for help on the American Waterfront during WWII and the invasion of Sicily where Patton was lead along goat paths by General Mafia. There is rich fodder for many discussions along these lines and how they have helped shape The American Experience.

What I am interested in knowing is whether discussion of a criminal organization in a historical context is permitted. I think so, but would like to check
@Had a dad

Second, if our Italian friends and European allies would also like to share their version of the Sicilian Mafia and the Commorrah with related backstories to fill in the gaps.

Please let me know, it could be quite interesting.
 
Last edited:

viale

First Lieutenant
71 Badges
Dec 1, 2007
239
108
  • Semper Fi
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
I have a nice little pet theory that the creators of the role-playing game Vampire: The Masquerade lifted the structure of their three biggest groups from Italian Mafia organizations:
The Camarilla is based on the Cosa Nostra. This is seen through their hierarchical structure, and behind the scenes shenanigans.
The Sabbat is based on the Camorra's loose cell-like organization, and my impression of them being a more street-crime oriented group.
Lastly there is the Ndrangheta which mainly recruits members from family thereby keeping loyalty throughout the organization high. This matches pretty well with how the Giovanni are portrayed as incestuous necromancers who also only keep things close in the family.
 

Andre Bolkonsky

Gazing up at the blue, blue sky
37 Badges
Feb 28, 2002
1.872
1.566
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Empire of Sin
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
I have a nice little pet theory that the creators of the role-playing game Vampire: The Masquerade lifted the structure of their three biggest groups from Italian Mafia organizations:
The Camarilla is based on the Cosa Nostra. This is seen through their hierarchical structure, and behind the scenes shenanigans.
The Sabbat is based on the Camorra's loose cell-like organization, and my impression of them being a more street-crime oriented group.
Lastly there is the Ndrangheta which mainly recruits members from family thereby keeping loyalty throughout the organization high. This matches pretty well with how the Giovanni are portrayed as incestuous necromancers who also only keep things close in the family.
Ndrangheta.

This is a name I did not know, or had forgotten.

Already I’ve learned something.

My thanks!
 

Sarmatia1871

Field Marshal
51 Badges
Mar 22, 2004
3.889
339
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
Ndrangheta.

This is a name I did not know, or had forgotten.

Already I’ve learned something.

My thanks!
They are currently much larger, richer and more powerful than the Sicilian mafia - but don't get so much press outside of Italy because of the lack of association with the US Mafia and the unpronounceable name.
 

Andre Bolkonsky

Gazing up at the blue, blue sky
37 Badges
Feb 28, 2002
1.872
1.566
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Empire of Sin
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
They are currently much larger, richer and more powerful than the Sicilian mafia - but don't get so much press outside of Italy because of the lack of association with the US Mafia and the unpronounceable name.
I was reading about them and saw the tie in with Mexico’s Los Zetas - a ruthless drug cartel formed by ex-Mexican SpecOps Commandos. Zeta is the call sign for commander, and those guys do not play, they are incredibly deadly.


And, yes, the name Ndragata does not flow off the tongue.
 

Graf Zeppelin

Tomb Queen
35 Badges
Mar 19, 2006
4.028
3.664
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Pride of Nations
I have a nice little pet theory that the creators of the role-playing game Vampire: The Masquerade lifted the structure of their three biggest groups from Italian Mafia organizations:
The Camarilla is based on the Cosa Nostra. This is seen through their hierarchical structure, and behind the scenes shenanigans.
The Sabbat is based on the Camorra's loose cell-like organization, and my impression of them being a more street-crime oriented group.
Lastly there is the Ndrangheta which mainly recruits members from family thereby keeping loyalty throughout the organization high. This matches pretty well with how the Giovanni are portrayed as incestuous necromancers who also only keep things close in the family.
:D
 

Herbert West

Field Marshal
62 Badges
Jul 24, 2006
3.635
2.995
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Darkest Hour
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • BATTLETECH
  • Victoria 2
I have a nice little pet theory that the creators of the role-playing game Vampire: The Masquerade lifted the structure of their three biggest groups from Italian Mafia organizations:
The Camarilla is based on the Cosa Nostra. This is seen through their hierarchical structure, and behind the scenes shenanigans.
The Sabbat is based on the Camorra's loose cell-like organization, and my impression of them being a more street-crime oriented group.
Lastly there is the Ndrangheta which mainly recruits members from family thereby keeping loyalty throughout the organization high. This matches pretty well with how the Giovanni are portrayed as incestuous necromancers who also only keep things close in the family.
Partially true, although the Camarilla has its roots elsewhere. At their next AMA, you might ask Mark R_dot_H about it.

(Or you could check with the OPP crowd)
 

Graf Zeppelin

Tomb Queen
35 Badges
Mar 19, 2006
4.028
3.664
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Pride of Nations
To be serious I curently read much about Italian history especialy the Mussolini era. It is really interesting how the half arsed fascist Mafia crackdown revitalized the whole Sicillian Mafia and how Sicily was basically an Italian wasteland.
 

viale

First Lieutenant
71 Badges
Dec 1, 2007
239
108
  • Semper Fi
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
Ndrangheta.

This is a name I did not know, or had forgotten.

Already I’ve learned something.

My thanks!
Your welcome, they were really interesting to learn about first time I stumbled upon them.

Here's a few links to various sites I/google found:

This is just a list-site, but it's probably as good as anything to start looking into what they do/are:

https://listverse.com/2015/11/15/10-chilling-facts-about-the-secretive-ndrangheta-mafia/

This from someone writing a book about Calabria:

https://www.calabriatheotheritaly.com/the-ndrangheta/

Here's an overview from the Economist which probably has some interesting things too:

https://www.economist.com/topics/ndrangheta


I was reading about them and saw the tie in with Mexico’s Los Zetas - a ruthless drug cartel formed by ex-Mexican SpecOps Commandos. Zeta is the call sign for commander, and those guys do not play, they are incredibly deadly.


And, yes, the name Ndragata does not flow off the tongue.
They seem really ruthless, I skimmed the same wiki page but had read about them before. And their clan-like structure probably also makes them more intriguing and sinister when reading about organized crime. Their name really helps them keep low though, which seems like a good asset in the organized crime sector.


Partially true, although the Camarilla has its roots elsewhere. At their next AMA, you might ask Mark R_dot_H about it.

(Or you could check with the OPP crowd)
I haven't delved too much into whether or not it's true. I just like the neatness of their Italian organized crime comparisons. I only need to find something to compare the Anarchs to. Also, most of my experience with reading about the Camorra is them controlling the Neapolitan garbage disposal services, which seems like something the Sabbat would do.
 

Andre Bolkonsky

Gazing up at the blue, blue sky
37 Badges
Feb 28, 2002
1.872
1.566
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Empire of Sin
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
To be serious I curently read much about Italian history especialy the Mussolini era. It is really interesting how the half arsed fascist Mafia crackdown revitalized the whole Sicillian Mafia and how Sicily was basically an Italian wasteland.
Very true.

Mario Puzo discusses this in great detail in his novel, The Sicilian, in which Michael Corleone plays a bit part. In great detail, he shows how The Friends actually operate back in Sicily; the good and the bad, mostly bad as hired gunman for the wealthy landowners. The Fascist crackdown on the Sicilian Mafia, and throwing everyone even suspected of helping the Mafia in jail, creates a problem after the Allies land. Anyone in prison was believed to be an enemy of Fascism, and many of the Mafiosi were given prominent positions they held throughout the rest of the war and after the war was over. Not to mention the direct help provided the US Army by Mafia through Lucky Luciano, and Patton's reliance on General Mafia to get him around the German positions using little known goat paths used primarily by smugglers.

And, after the fact, the Mafia could be counted on to keep the Communists in check.
 

viale

First Lieutenant
71 Badges
Dec 1, 2007
239
108
  • Semper Fi
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2

Andre Bolkonsky

Gazing up at the blue, blue sky
37 Badges
Feb 28, 2002
1.872
1.566
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Empire of Sin
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
They seem really ruthless, I skimmed the same wiki page but had read about them before. And their clan-like structure probably also makes them more intriguing and sinister when reading about organized crime. Their name really helps them keep low though, which seems like a good asset in the organized crime sector.
The Narco Cartels rise as a direct result of Mafia involvement through P2 and Licio Gelli; and has its origins in Gelli's financing Klaus Barbie and a CIA sponsored mercenary team to overthrow Bolivia and initiating the never-ending flow of 'Bolivian Marching Powder' into the US. This, of course, is expanded by the Nicaragua Contra War; and the CIA 'allowing' contractors to import Medellin Cartel Cocaine through intermediaries in Panama directly into the United States. Until we have the incredible mess that exists today.

Los Zetas begins with SpecOps Commandos moving against established narcotics dealers and taking over their operation. They take criminal finance and methods, and apply SpecOps precision to their operations. Brutal, deadly, their kill record along the Mexican American border staggers the imagination. And it is very difficult to move against them.
 

XYN

Captain
73 Badges
May 10, 2017
383
1.502
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
Ndrangheta.

This is a name I did not know, or had forgotten.

Already I’ve learned something.

My thanks!
I've recently read about them. Apparently they are much more influential, but not represented in the popular culture and therefore less known.

Partially true, although the Camarilla has its roots elsewhere. At their next AMA, you might ask Mark R_dot_H about it.

(Or you could check with the OPP crowd)

Too bad Vampire: Masquarade doesn't really touch any politics of that. It could be quite interesting - more interesting than the black/white representation in the game.
 

viale

First Lieutenant
71 Badges
Dec 1, 2007
239
108
  • Semper Fi
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
Yeah the Los Zetas seem to be the absolutely worst of the worst of the cartels, I believe it was also them who killed a bus full of children recently.

You are Italian, Viale?
No Danish:oops: But my family do have some (far out) Italian blood, hence the Viale part*. It's not part of my official name but a way of keeping me "me" on the intertubes, like Subnormalized signs all his posts wit his name. However I have been on an organized crime binge on Wikipedia a few times and have some decent google-fu skillz. Also, I'm enjoying my after-work afternoon by sitting in the sun, drinking Gin and Tonic, smoking cigarettes and reading about organized crime.

*I just realized I'm not a real Dane. My linage is tainted by shifty Mediterranean germs:eek:
 

Andre Bolkonsky

Gazing up at the blue, blue sky
37 Badges
Feb 28, 2002
1.872
1.566
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Empire of Sin
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
Yeah the Los Zetas seem to be the absolutely worst of the worst of the cartels, I believe it was also them who killed a bus full of children recently.



No Danish:oops: But my family do have some (far out) Italian blood, hence the Viale part*. It's not part of my official name but a way of keeping me "me" on the intertubes, like Subnormalized signs all his posts wit his name. However I have been on an organized crime binge on Wikipedia a few times and have some decent google-fu skillz. Also, I'm enjoying my after-work afternoon by sitting in the sun, drinking Gin and Tonic, smoking cigarettes and reading about organized crime.

*I just realized I'm not a real Dane. My linage is tainted by shifty Mediterranean germs:eek:
One of the Cartels commonly used methods of disposing of corpses they don't want found (rather than those they kill to send a message) is to dump them into the sea off the coast. This has DIRECTLY led to a wave of shark attacks who are using the Cartels body count as a dependable food source.
 

Sanny

Italo-Scot
92 Badges
Mar 29, 2013
2.484
1.940
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Rome Gold
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
Ndrangheta.

This is a name I did not know, or had forgotten.

Already I’ve learned something.

My thanks!
As far as I'm aware Ndrangheta and the Camorra both operate like a Confederation of Clans, and some clans are formed out of smaller crews. There is definitely a hierarchy and politics to it all.
There was a relative line in the Sopranos where Johnny Sac complained "what is this?! the UN now?" when Tony suggested having a power sharing situation like the Triumvirate. Granted that the way the Five Families work is different, from the "mafia" entities that still exists in Italy. Another difference is that female bosses are quite common in Italy as men are often sent to jail, so the wives inherit leadership of clans, often before their sons due to their status as ladyship and mothers. After all men are likely to always follow the orders of their mothers.
 
Last edited:

King_of_Spain

Bretwalda
46 Badges
Feb 20, 2013
359
61
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
To be serious I curently read much about Italian history especialy the Mussolini era. It is really interesting how the half arsed fascist Mafia crackdown revitalized the whole Sicillian Mafia and how Sicily was basically an Italian wasteland.
When you talk about Sicily being a wasteland that's interesting, because my history tutor at university used to always talk about Berlusconi and how in the 90s he and his cronies completely stripped Sicily and southern Italy of industry, moving it north and compounding the abject poverty that a lot of the bottom half of the country feels nowadays. I think he was slightly biased, but it seems true (as far as I know) that politicians have long turned a blind eye towards Sicily and the South, which at one point were among the wealthiest regions in Europe, in return for collaboration with both voters and the mafia - i.e. there are a huge majority of voters in the South but in return for governmental grants they elect specific parties, and this then feeds into the divide between north and south, has been fuelling Lega Nord and so on. In essence the Italian political system seems to both benefit Cosa Nostra in the south and therefore resentment in the less corrupt north.

Please correct me if I am wrong though, this is just the impression I have got from talking to a few Italians recently and taking a university trip to Palermo and various nearby Sicilian locations.
 

Mork

One armed man
6 Badges
Feb 22, 2003
5.243
35
Visit site
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
Yeah the Los Zetas seem to be the absolutely worst of the worst of the cartels, I believe it was also them who killed a bus full of children recently.



No Danish:oops: But my family do have some (far out) Italian blood, hence the Viale part*. It's not part of my official name but a way of keeping me "me" on the intertubes, like Subnormalized signs all his posts wit his name. However I have been on an organized crime binge on Wikipedia a few times and have some decent google-fu skillz. Also, I'm enjoying my after-work afternoon by sitting in the sun, drinking Gin and Tonic, smoking cigarettes and reading about organized crime.

*I just realized I'm not a real Dane. My linage is tainted by shifty Mediterranean germs:eek:

You should immediately report to your local detention centre.
 

CV10

Second Lieutenant
78 Badges
Apr 7, 2013
170
145
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • March of the Eagles
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
There was a popular (within the mob) myth that Albert Anastasia had some cronies cause the SS Normandie fire to "demonstrate" the need for a more cooperative relationship with the fellows who really controlled the docks.

From my understanding, the Sicilian mafia has been considerably more vicious and violent than the American mafia: entire families are considered fair game, as are a bunch of people who the American mafia would consider off-limits: Prosecutors, Judges, Police, Journalists (in the USA, killing one of them brings down the wrath of God Almighty and the Justice Department). There was a war between the different clans that broke out in the 1980s and the Italian govt. tried to crack down (the Maxi Trials). Magistrates, police and carabinieri personnel, and ordinary people became targets when the mafia clans responded with a terrorism campaign that spilled over into mainland Italy.