kelfka

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I've had a lot of fun reading about the Kyros' laws. Could you plz expand on the subject. (I want more)
Also, it would be awesome to have a small paperback Kyros Law Book which the player could consult during game play.

Here are the laws that have been made public and my interpretation of them.

Kyros’ Peace: Your life belongs to the Overlord if you vow fealty, and cannot be taken from you except by the Overlord. Legally this means that surrendering in the midst of battle should make Kyros soldiers stop killing you, as your life does not belong to them. It also grants Archons, as extensions of Kyros’ will, the right to conscript citizens into their service as soldiers, mages, or agents. As a Fatebinder you are an extension of Kyros’ Will, and have the right to order the execution of those guilty of breaking the law.

Me: All citizen are the property of Kyros. This means murder is punishable by death. It also mean you cannot take revenge on a murderer by killing him or your life will be forfeit as well. If you want revenge and live you have to get an appointed official to do the dirty work.
Update: You cannot kill someone in self defense. If you are attacked you must do your utmost do subdue your attacker without killing him. Afterwards, unless the attacker can prove he clearly did not want to kill you, his life is forfeit. All lives belong to Kyros, the attempt to take one is interpreted as if it was taken.
Update#2: Suicide is strictly prohibited. Your life belongs to Kyros not you. Only He can decide if and when you die. Anyone caught to have committed suicide will (if possible) be revived a soon as possible and sentence to do hard labor until death. If you are eager for death's embrace, you simply have to mention it to one of our many recruiting officers. He or she will make sure you are assigned to a high action, high risk and high casualty rate squadron. Also known as Suicide Squads.

The Magician’s Folly: If a mage inadvertently causes harm or death due to the unknowable perils of magic, the mage will not be held liable if the magic was used for the glory of the Overlord. Many believe this law grants mages more rights in Kyros’ Empire, but they are wrong. Mages must belong to sanctioned guilds under the supervision and control of an Archon. Any use of magic, even a spell as simple as lighting a candle, must occur for the glory of Kyros. To do otherwise means death.

Me: The mages are under strict supervision but there's potential for abuse here. A crafty enough mage could disrupt Kyros' Peace and passes his murder for an unfortunate accident.
Update: Magic for entertainment purposes are permitted. An entertained populace is a happy populace and a happy populace is a loyal populace. All for the glory of Kyros.

Vows Made in Kyros’ Name: Any vow or expression made using Kyros’ name is a binding legal contract. Breaking such a vow is punishable by death. A statement as simple as, “By Kyros, that man is an idiot!” places the speaker in dire peril. An enemy who hears that and can gather both witnesses to your vow, and proof that the man in question is not an idiot, can have you executed.

Me: My personal favorite! Marriages will last a life time with this one. If Kyros' name is in the marriages vows then infidelity could be a death sentence. I already see young men vowing there love in Kyros' name just to get in the pants of naive young girls.

The Oldwalls are Forbidden: What are the Oldwalls, you ask? Wouldn’t you like to know…

Me: A Law simply made to protect the normal citizen of dire perils. If all your citizen get killed who's left to lord over.
Update: Probably the place you'll have to go after the Archon orders your execution.

Feel free to comment if you agree or not.
 
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UKHEIC

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If I send a letter of cease and desist as a Fatebinder demanding them to refrain from any and all subversive activities on the pain of death to the rebels will they surrender?

Seriously I am really want options to solve quests without using force.
 

Puking Panda

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If I send a letter of cease and desist as a Fatebinder demanding them to refrain from any and all subversive activities on the pain of death to the rebels will they surrender?

Seriously I am really want options to solve quests without using force.
If a nicely worded letter threatening death is enough the convince them then the rebels probably wouldn't have risen up in the first place.
 

kelfka

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If I send a letter of cease and desist as a Fatebinder demanding them to refrain from any and all subversive activities on the pain of death to the rebels will they surrender?

Seriously I am really want options to solve quests without using force.

Well they said you would be able to use dialogue to convince or intimidate others.
My solution:
1) Execute the leaders who killed the old masters.
2) Make new regulations for better treatment and safety standards
3) The New Maters will vow by Kyros' name they will abide by the new regulations

Minimal bloodshed and Kyros' laws were protected
 

UKHEIC

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If a nicely worded letter threatening death is enough the convince them then the rebels probably wouldn't have risen up in the first place.

What I meant was solving quests by framing, blackmailing, cajoling, manipulating, abusing your office and more, not just the ordinary red tape things. Fatebinder is a government job after all.;)
 

kelfka

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So I entered "Kyros law" in Google and guess what...There're at least two law firms who are named "Kyros Law"

[links redacted]

I sure hope Paradox will not be in trouble because of that. After all Kyros is an evil overlord. They probably would not want their name to be associated with EVIL.
 
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Henry 43

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So I entered "Kyros law" in Google and guess what...There're at least two law firms who are named "Kyros Law"

[links redacted]

I sure hope Paradox will not be in trouble because of that. After all Kyros is an evil overlord. They probably would not want their name to be associated with EVIL.
If they didn't want to be associated with evil, they shouldn't have become law firms.
 
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RVallant

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Let's see;

Kyros’ Peace
: Your life belongs to the Overlord if you vow fealty, and cannot be taken from you except by the Overlord. Legally this means that surrendering in the midst of battle should make Kyros soldiers stop killing you, as your life does not belong to them. It also grants Archons, as extensions of Kyros’ will, the right to conscript citizens into their service as soldiers, mages, or agents. As a Fatebinder you are an extension of Kyros’ Will, and have the right to order the execution of those guilty of breaking the law.

1. Murder is illegal (duh)

2. Suicide is illegal, as is assisted suicide.

3. Killing via self-defence isn't allowed - However, this is a matter of interpretion, one might argue that the moment a citizen attempts to murder the other, his life is forfeit along with any rights he had to it, therefore allowing the victim to kill in self-defence, up to and until the assailant 'surrenders' and submits his life to the Overlord again. However, they would still be sentenced to death, presumably for treason, never mind the attempted murder. But this is just a matter of how you intepret it though.

-Subnote: The wording is illogical, your life belongs to overlord only if you vow fealty, so if you don't vow it you're not covered? The surrendering in the midst of a battle is not swearing fealty, not willingly anyway, it is no pledge, though you may 'submit' to them, so there's wiggle room. What of children born in the realm? Do they need to make the pledge? Can the pledge be made on their behalf by their parents? Or does this mean infanticide is fine? Bear in mind the qualifying statement is 'IF they vow fealty' - at what age are they capable of doing so? Is it automatic until a time they vow otherwise?

4. Hilariously, you could argue that getting ill and/or death from illnesses is illegal if you read it literally. But this would be so absurd, that only academic lawyers would bother arguing this.

5. More sensibly, it would mean that businesses have a 'duty of care' to its consumers. Say a butcher must not provide rotten meat or sustenance that could cause illness and therefore death.

6. Presumably, refusal to commit to the draft/conscription is punishable by death.

7. Presumably failure to follow an Archon's orders under capacity is punishable by death. (Talk about extreme...)

8. There is a question of 'mens rea'. (That is, intent) - It seems this law means you cannot kill intentionally or unintentionally, so any accidental death is treated as murder anyway. So there isn't any 'degrees' of murder as the American system has it, or manslaughter for the European systems.



The Magician’s Folly: If a mage inadvertently causes harm or death due to the unknowable perils of magic, the mage will not be held liable if the magic was used for the glory of the Overlord. Many believe this law grants mages more rights in Kyros’ Empire, but they are wrong. Mages must belong to sanctioned guilds under the supervision and control of an Archon. Any use of magic, even a spell as simple as lighting a candle, must occur for the glory of Kyros. To do otherwise means death.

1. Inadvertently means this ruling has a mens rea element. This means that if something happens by accident, or wasn't intended, then no crime has been committed.

2. This is qualified by the "if used for the glory of the Overlord" - Which can be interpreted in almost any way you prefer, depending on how much of an arse you are... Making zombies? GLORIOUS ZOMBIE ARMY! Y'know. >_>

3. Mages must belong to sanctioned guilds - Doesn't necessarily link with the above law, meaning an unsanctioned mage casting magic in the 'glory' and accidently doing something wrong, is still no liable for the mistakes he made.

4. That doesn't absolve him from the crime of casting the magic without sanction though. But is important to make the distinction.

5. Therefore there is clearly a crime for casting magic or doing magic without being sanctioned. There might be a matter of interpretion as to how much leeway there is here. For example, what of a child who has only just manifested their magical ability? (Obviously this depends entirely on how magic works...)

6. The term 'glory' is ridiculous. It means anything from 'in praise of', 'in honour of', or even in 'admiration' of. Or even something of beauty or magnificent (for the empire), so one might argue something is 'glorious' in the name of the empire. It's far too wide a statement.

7. Would an expression of 'Light this candle in the glroy of Kyros wakakakakak' *poof* mean it is a vow in the name of Kyros and therefore fine? Would just saying 'in the glory of Kyros' after or before a spell is cast suffice for allowing magic to be cast wantonly? Given that one definition is 'in praise of', one might argue that this is all that is needed. Thus mages need to chant!

Vows Made in Kyros’ Name: Any vow or expression made using Kyros’ name is a binding legal contract. Breaking such a vow is punishable by death. A statement as simple as, “By Kyros, that man is an idiot!” places the speaker in dire peril. An enemy who hears that and can gather both witnesses to your vow, and proof that the man in question is not an idiot, can have you executed.

1. The opening statement implies that there is a method to create a binding legal contract that doesn't use Kyros' name.

2. The statement example suggests not just a contract, but a method of preventing libel or slander. You cannot assert something in the Lord's name without being very sure of it.

3. I would assume the Fatebinder could get people to swear in the name, as in 'swear on the bible'.

4. It doesn't seem to cover taking the name in vain though... And I'd be very interested to see how it would work if you said 'BY Kyros, damn you and your descendants to a slow death in boiling oil.' - Are we now to boil those people in oil, or kill the man making the statement for not boiling them in oil? There's going to be some absurd contracts here...

5. Specifically, children promising to marry as they do in playgrounds when they're older. Hoo-boy.

6. Marriage using Kyros name would be absolute. This might be the case anyway as church sermons usually go by 'in the name of the ...'

7. There is no suggestion that you have to be lucid when you make such vows. Expect a lot of drunk people to be summarily executed for making outrageous claims while pissed.

8. Obviously, the term 'contract' in this game isn't a 'contract' in reality. There is no exchange of anything for example, (consideration), there's no offer and acceptance, you simply have to say something. This seems absurd, therefore I'd say the term 'contract' in game, doesn't necessarily conform to 'contract' in reality, and is actually closer to libel/slander/accusation.

-Indeed one could say that an accusation in the name of the lord would be reserved only for very serious accusations that the person in question feels they have no recourse but to use.

9. Expect a lot of those situations if people attend particularly heated marriages or funerals.
 

UKHEIC

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5. More sensibly, it would mean that businesses have a 'duty of care' to its consumers. Say a butcher must not provide rotten meat or sustenance that could cause illness and therefore death.

Donoghue v. Stevenson [1932] ;)


8. Obviously, the term 'contract' in this game isn't a 'contract' in reality. There is no exchange of anything for example, (consideration), there's no offer and acceptance, you simply have to say something. This seems absurd, therefore I'd say the term 'contract' in game, doesn't necessarily conform to 'contract' in reality, and is actually closer to libel/slander/accusation.

Well the term 'contract' in the real world means enforceable promise in reality,as long as there are offer, acceptance, consideration and mutual intent to be legally bound, there is a contract. The difference is a certain boilerplate in this fantasy version of contract can actually be enforced on the pain of death.
 
Last edited:

RVallant

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Donoghue v. Stevenson [1932] ;)




Well the term 'contract' in the real world means enforceable promise in reality,as long as there are offer, acceptance, consideration and mutual intent to be legally bound, there is a contract. The difference is a certain boilerplate in this fantasy version of contract can actually be enforced on the pain of death.

Ginger beer snails please? >_>

Eh, it's going to be interesting either way. I'm pretty interested in seeing what loopholes people figure out, and how the dev is going to have to think of everything to satisfy that. =x
 

UKHEIC

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Ginger beer snails please? >_>

Eh, it's going to be interesting either way. I'm pretty interested in seeing what loopholes people figure out, and how the dev is going to have to think of everything to satisfy that. =x

Well, in terms of contract law and tort law, all they need to do is to hire a law student to dig up cases and give those cases a fantasy spin.

For example, if Kyros has the title over all the lives of his citizen, are these citizens in question his chattels? If this were to be true, can the chattels and property of these citizen be seen as an extension of the citizens' lives? If that were be true as well, then can citizens' chattels be appropriated by whoever holds power of attorney from Kyros? For example, the Archons and the Fatebinders. If the answer to the last question is 'yes', then I can foresee a whole lot of poop coming down the pipe. I can also foresee that intelligence stat is a very worthwhile investment during character creation.;)

By the way I believe that cases before the abolition of slavery in the real world might actually cover this part.
 

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Well, in terms of contract law and tort law, all they need to do is to hire a law student to dig up cases and give those cases a fantasy spin.

For example, if Kyros has the title over all the lives of his citizen, are these citizens in question his chattels? If this were to be true, can the chattels and property of these citizen be seen as an extension of the citizens' lives? If that were be true as well, then can citizens' chattels be appropriated by whoever holds power of attorney from Kyros? For example, the Archons and the Fatebinders. If the answer to the last question is 'yes', then I can foresee a whole lot of poop coming down the pipe. I can also foresee that intelligence stat is a very worthwhile investment during character creation.;)

By the way I believe that cases before the abolition of slavery in the real world might actually cover this part.

Pft... There's a reason I avoided Contract Law. I was rubbish at it.

Give me Criminal Law any day! >_>

I'll raise your intelligence stat with the wisdom stat. For one must be wise to pass judgement... Or some such. Though we could say everything is solved at the point of the sword of justice... >_>