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For RP reasons? Because as I said, the Reactor itself doesn't do anything, you only get practical for it which is used for the tech that increases the rate of Nuke production. Once it is built, it is no longer needed.
oh. so once the research is done, the thing is not vital any longer? I stand corrected.
edit: I might be thinking of HOI2, then.
edit: I might be thinking of HOI2, then.
If I recall correctly, though, in vanilla HOI 3 didn't a second reactor increase the rate of bomb production once expanded? HPP does not have this reflected either, then? If so, I might not have built a second level to my reactor, though that hardly matters anymore. I have to admit, I just kind of skimmed the HPP manual.
Rensslaer
If I recall correctly, though, in vanilla HOI 3 didn't a second reactor increase the rate of bomb production once expanded? HPP does not have this reflected either, then? If so, I might not have built a second level to my reactor, though that hardly matters anymore. I have to admit, I just kind of skimmed the HPP manual.
Rensslaer
No to both of the questions, because it is not possible yet. (It might change with FtM though.) Still, you get a lot of practical from the reactor, which in turn speeds up the research of the related tech which increases the rate of nuke production. Also note that in the latest version (currently in alpha) you need to have a higher level reactor to research the later techs and you can already build a reactor (well, actually a nuclear lab) with the first level of the tech. Same for rocket test sites.
Oh, that's right... Each level of nuke bomb tech (or something) increases your rate of bomb production by 1. So... I don't remember why I was building a second reactor. I may have been confused. Makes me realize how long since I was playing this iteration of the game!
Rensslaer
That is indeed what I meant. I understand the mechanics of HoI3 pretty decently, I think (I already understood the 2/1/.5 ratio) and I have no other games similar to confuse it with
. I called the resources (metal, energy (coal), rare materials) "raw materials" because that's kinda what they are in terms of function in the game. You use them to make things. Supplies, reinforcements, divisions, planes, boats and such. Before they are made into anything, they are just raw material sitting in a stockpile. Or just a number on your screen. So I don't think there was any confusion there. My question was, why are you choosing not to spend them? What is your goal in having IC go unused? I know that it allows your stockpiles to build up, but what is your strategic goal in having large enough stockpiles to last for years and years?I'm not trying to be critical, I just don't understand what the long-term thinking is. You say that you are saving them for war-time, but what will you be building during war-time? Is it as kpth says and you need the stockpiles for reinforcement and supply production? If so, then I guess I understand, but I wonder how large the stockpiles need to be to cover this expenditure. If you're going to be building more military units during war time, I wonder if perhaps it might be better to have smaller stockpiles (enough to cover reinf/supplies for X years) and more military ahead of time. Or perhaps this would raise your threat too much? I'm just curious what the strategic thinking is here.
Basically, I'm wondering if I'm missing something important, because you are very experienced at this game and I am not, but I can't seem to figure out your reasoning so far as its been stated. Can't wait to see what's going to happen next!
HPP plays a pretty nasty game with your stockpiles: whenever they go too high, you get warehousing problems which reduce your resource gains to a high negative. At a rate of -200 per day or so, you will end up without resources faster than you think. mind you, Slan once assured me it won't cause you to go "bankrupt". Rensslaer is just trying to prevent loosing too much. with his IC building, he is bound to run out of trading partners sooner or later.
Welcome, kptb! Long time no see -- glad to have you reading my AARs again! Ahh, you're right, I must have mis-read his question. I'll explain in more depth later, when responding to Laughing Tulkas' later comment, but in brief I try to stockpile both the Resources and Supplies, so that I can run for a while without having to worry about either. He has a good point, though -- if you think in terms of "all the resources you'll ever have" and "all the military units you'll ever have", there is a relationship, and a choice of whether to build the units sooner or later (as opposed to spreading out both resource acquisition and unit builds). I'm not used to thinking of it that way, but it's a valid concept. You're right, kptb, that if I build the troops early, there is a higher cost in terms of "all the extra resources I'll spend feeding all those units I've always had", so that's part of it but I'm not sure it's enough to make my case. I'll explain my choice in that later feedback. Obviously, alot of it has to do with CG costs during peacetime, and also Threat.
It worked like a charm
Thanks! Yes, Germany is tight on resources, as I proved in this game and others. It's easy to run out, and then what do you do?
Thanks, Misterbean! Yes, nuclear war seems a looming prospect all of a sudden, and not necessarily one-sided!
And where will you test your nukes?
Enemy territory... And I'll leave it at that.
Yeah, that started my heart beating, and my mind thinking -- which might not have happened for a while if I hadn't noticed that reactor there.
Looking back through my tech dates, I find that it took me about 1.5 years to get from my first reactor to my first ability to build a bomb (which I just got in that last update). So I have a cushion of time. And if I were really planning to go to war, then I could "handle" things. But if I'm in a Cold War and not intending to go to war, but not sure if the USSR has the same convictions, then I have something to worry about. Naturally, all this means I'm having to rethink the whole "peaceful Germany" thing. And if I do rethink, then what will the Allies do?Capt Robou, Welcome! Honored to have you! Thanks about my style (this and Siam) -- plenty more AARs where this one came from!
I'd be very curious what you might find in DH -- I tried it in HOI 2, and also in vanilla HOI 3.If this were not a computer game, the likelihood of war should've just evaporated from the face of the Earth - not having an insane Hitler in charge and Stalin also being remarkably restrained so far. But of course this is a game, so all bets are off. Which does lead to the thought: Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia staring each other down over Poland, both armed with nukes... I would not want to be Poland.
Your technological prowess continues to impress, but it is scary that the Soviets appear to be matching you in that one crucial area.
You know, I'll credit the HPP team for making it so things that were not impossible now are, and things that were impossible now aren't, and yet all of it is now based more closely on the plausibility of it. In other words (and some of this is contrary to what the HPP developers expected, I think), there is now a likelihood that the USSR will invade, but the AI isn't going to do it if it doesn't think it will work, which means here we are in 1945 and still not at war. I don't get the sense that the AI is asleep -- I get the sense that the AI is weighing its options, whereas in vanilla HOI 3 I got the impression the AI was asleep, and whereas in HOI 2 I got the impression the AI didn't matter.
So... What would be the best place to test these new bombs
I can't say... because I can't pronounce alot of those place names.
Poland of course
My allies? Or do you mean once there are Soviets there? Welcome, Franconian! Thanks for dropping in!Yeah! Course that's alot of bombs -- I don't even have one yet. We'll see. Welcome, Comm Cody!
I've excluded the long conversation we all had over this. To tell you the truth, if I've got nukes, I've got the edge, and I think that reactor (speaking mostly RP here) might be more useful to me alive than dead, if you know what I mean! It's only a few provinces away from my border, all in all, so I could probably take it eventually.
That is indeed what I meant. I understand the mechanics of HoI3 pretty decently, I think (I already understood the 2/1/.5 ratio) and I have no other games similar to confuse it with
I'm not trying to be critical, I just don't understand what the long-term thinking is. You say that you are saving them for war-time, but what will you be building during war-time? Is it as kpth says and you need the stockpiles for reinforcement and supply production? If so, then I guess I understand, but I wonder how large the stockpiles need to be to cover this expenditure. If you're going to be building more military units during war time, I wonder if perhaps it might be better to have smaller stockpiles (enough to cover reinf/supplies for X years) and more military ahead of time. Or perhaps this would raise your threat too much? I'm just curious what the strategic thinking is here.
Basically, I'm wondering if I'm missing something important, because you are very experienced at this game and I am not, but I can't seem to figure out your reasoning so far as its been stated. Can't wait to see what's going to happen next!
Sorry I misunderstood your original question!
I was so confused! So that people don't have to go back to see what I said to kptb, I'll quote it here:Basically, I stockpile everything for fear of running out. What Misterbean says below is an extra part of that too -- HPP makes the stockpiles disappear even faster, so it's hard to build a "wartime stockpile". Nevertheless, I stockpile out of habit just because I always fear running out. Running out means you IC goes away, except for what you produce internally, which can be a big deal. But what you're saying is 1) You know that, and 2) It still doesn't matter. And I can see where you're coming from. In a normal HOI 3 game, your point would be especially cogent, because you wouldn't have the HPP resource-killing modifiers, and you wouldn't have the peculiar restrictions that a peaceful Germany has: 1) Not wanting Threat, 2) Not wanting to maintain a huge army's CG needs (I know "army at peace" CG needs have changed from one patch/expansion to another, and I don't know where they are now, but I assume they're still significant), 3) Not wanting to produce Supplies for that huge army which I may/maynot need, etc. I still stockpile out of habit, even when I may not even be going to war, just because I think running out of Resources/IC can still be disastrous. There's always something I didn't anticipate I'd need, but a new situation shows up and suddenly I need IC in the late game. If I have stockpiles, I don't have to worry about it, but if not, I have to scramble. In a conventional scenario, the obvious goal would be to conquer those lands that have the resources you need, so that you have native sources and don't need stockpiles to maintain IC. But in Kriegsgefahr, that's not an option.
Anyway, thanks for your compliments, and for the question! I enjoy questions which require in-depth thinking to respond to, because they reveal more about the game strategy and my personal inclinations. It also refines my own thinking, as many have pointed out things, like this, which I had never thought about or incorporated into my strategic thinking.
Yeah, this is part of my problem. I sometimes feel like I have to struggle just to maintain a 2-year stockpile, let alone a 5-year one!
It's true that you don't really "go bankrupt", but as any player knows, when your Production options become limited because of shortages, it FEELS like you've gone bankrupt! All right... I Am Siam is next up for update, and then this one will be right back around again! An exciting update ranging into 1945! And if you didn't notice my one or two hints before, I'll repeat them here more clearly, as I think it's time to do so. I will guarantee that you will see combat between two major factions (including Germany) before this AAR is over. Now, that's not to say I don't succeed in my original goal. It's complicated, but that's all I'm saying!
Thanks again for reading and especially for commenting!
Rensslaer
I will guarantee that you will see combat between two major factions (including Germany) before this AAR is over. Now, that's not to say I don't succeed in my original goal. It's complicated, but that's all I'm saying!
Rensslaer
Your allies attack someone (or are attacked by someone), most likely the USSR, and you do not join the war but send your entire army as an expeditionary force? I don't even remember if you can send expeditionary forces in HOI3, but if you can, this scenario might satisfy both the 'war' and 'peace' conditions you refer to...
In January, 1945, we finally launch the two sister-ship Battleships known as Bismarck and Tirpitz (Tirpitz is actually somewhat more advanced than Bismarck, but they are both older technologies, since we have spent little time on our naval techs – not to say they’re entirely obsolete, either – they’re not).
Technologically, we’ve improved our Radio Communication (artillery coordination & HQ range), our Fighters will have better Organization, our bombers in front-line CAS operations will be more effective, and our Manpower is improved with Agriculture advances.
By March, we’ve improved our long-range Bomber techs, as well as improving Energy production from nuclear power, which also helps our military atomic weapons industry. Our first Heavy Bombers are deployed, in eastern airbases, where they can reach deep into the Soviet Union.
These deployments, including two more Infantry divisions, do not significantly increase our Threat as perceived by the UK. The USSR is still, by far, the most threatening world power, and Germany’s Threat is far less. Will we slip under their radar, so to speak?
Our domestic Energy production now is high enough, when compared with our intentionally reduced production (174 IC used out of 430 available – the potential available is much higher, because that’s only 100% of our potential, and 150% is possible with the highest levels of HPP policies). We’re gaining 194 units of Energy every day, which has built up a substantial stockpile. It doesn’t matter much that we can’t find trading partners to sell Energy to us.
By April, we’re using even less of our IC, which is going toward Upgrades (49), Reinforcement (.22), Supplies (34), Consumer Goods (43) and Production (11). That’s a total IC used of 137. All of our stockpiles are increasing in size. This is despite the HPP storaging penalties which are currently applied to our Energy and Metal both.
Our Atomic Bomb capability increases, too – we will be building at a higher rate, and our current rates have already mostly produced our first Atomic Bomb. We can produce a new one, now, every 5 months, so 2 by the end of 1945. Naturally, we feel much safer, knowing we have these at our disposal to eliminate Soviet warmaking power or Industry.
Tensions continue at a low level, and the summer of 1945 passes. In August, we find that our agents in Austria have nurtured the Nazi Party there to 27%, which is within reach of our necessary level to implement a Diplomatic Annexation of Austria, which remains on the table for us. Ironically, it is not Austria that grabs international headlines that month for instability!
In the 2nd week of August, France declares a National Emergency! This great democratic power is suffering a crisis because the ruling party has about 40% of the electorate, and Action Francaise – the German-Italian sympathizing fascist party – has gained 32% of the electorate! The Socialists are beside themselves. In November, a peaceful coup replaces the social-democratic leadership with a substantially (but not entirely) fascist government. In many ways, it was just a continuation of typical French government instability, but the manner of change was less legal than at any time in several decades, and this is the first time a fascist premier has been head of government. ((note that our spies in Austria are actively influencing the government, but Germany has not tried to put spies into France for years, and they have no assignment – this wasn’t our fault! ).
As we carried on into 1946, the only things happening were tech advances – various aeroplane techs, infantry techs, medium tank techs, training techs for bombers and tank commanders, industry techs, education, etc.
In January, we had achieved another advance in bombmaking technology, and so our 2 Atomic Bombs would soon turn into 5 or more before the end of 1946. The Soviet border was still tense, and manned with many infantry divisions and armored divisions, on both sides, but nothing moved. No one acted. Everyone waited.
Since Germany had achieved the stockpile levels it desired, in 1946 we began building more divisions. Three new motorized infantry divisions were begun, with tank destroyers and self-propelled artillery support. They would be ready in 1947.
On the first of August, 1946, Germany finally decided it was both, worth the risk, and the strategically appropriate time, to declare an Anschluss of Austria – the diplomatic annexation of the remnants of the old German-Austrian Empire. The Allies were, of course, very concerned about this.
The question was, HOW concerned about it would the Allies be? Ultimately? This increased Germany’s Threat, and reduced their Neutrality. Would they eventually decide that the Soviet Union was the more distant threat, and decide to deal with Germany with military force? This was always a risk. And with the United Kingdom, they were already prepared, as a country, to go to war (neutrality) if the need presented itself. France was further from such a commitment, but the threat was more closely felt.
In September, Yugoslavia was welcomed into the Axis Alliance. This was an important new addition to the Anti-Comintern Pact, but really what Germany needed was a second front – Romania, though, remained aloof, and far too sympathetic with the Allies, rather than the Axis. Despite this, they were moving closer to the Axis very gradually. After the Anschluss, there were people who recommended claiming the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia, too, and completing Hitler’s planned reunion of the German peoples. But the government was wary of this step, which might be a step too far for the Allies. It remained under consideration.
Research improved aerial coordination of operations, such as bombing raids along the front, and behind the lines. Also, strategic rocket technologies – all of them – continued to improve, having been brought to level 3 since the first rockets were fielded.
With the addition of Yugoslavia to the Axis, Bulgaria finally had a land route to assist against the Soviet Union, should war come. Germany was stronger, with the addition of Austria, her industry, her resources, and her army and air force (generally Italian Fiats). Germany was ready, with atomic weapons and high-tech army and air units. If war came, Germany and the Axis would defend themselves.
The question was, did the Soviets consider themselves strong enough to come across that border? And what of France and the UK? Relations with Britain were still strong, even though they seemed more willing to go to war, if called for. But France was coming closer to that day gradually – neutrality was lessening, and Germany’s Threat increased every time she committed some “reckless” act (such as the Anschluss) and every time she deployed a new military unit (which she had to, in order to defend against Russia!).
And did the USSR now have the atomic bomb themselves? It certainly seemed possible, if not likely, considering how close behind Germany she was in such research. Tense months, month after month.
p.s. And, for those of you who might think this AAR is close to its end, I want to let you know, it's nowhere near it's end -- it's only beginning!
Technologically, we’ve improved our Radio Communication (artillery coordination & HQ range), our Fighters will have better Organization, our bombers in front-line CAS operations will be more effective, and our Manpower is improved with Agriculture advances.
By March, we’ve improved our long-range Bomber techs, as well as improving Energy production from nuclear power, which also helps our military atomic weapons industry. Our first Heavy Bombers are deployed, in eastern airbases, where they can reach deep into the Soviet Union.
These deployments, including two more Infantry divisions, do not significantly increase our Threat as perceived by the UK. The USSR is still, by far, the most threatening world power, and Germany’s Threat is far less. Will we slip under their radar, so to speak?
Our domestic Energy production now is high enough, when compared with our intentionally reduced production (174 IC used out of 430 available – the potential available is much higher, because that’s only 100% of our potential, and 150% is possible with the highest levels of HPP policies). We’re gaining 194 units of Energy every day, which has built up a substantial stockpile. It doesn’t matter much that we can’t find trading partners to sell Energy to us.
By April, we’re using even less of our IC, which is going toward Upgrades (49), Reinforcement (.22), Supplies (34), Consumer Goods (43) and Production (11). That’s a total IC used of 137. All of our stockpiles are increasing in size. This is despite the HPP storaging penalties which are currently applied to our Energy and Metal both.
Our Atomic Bomb capability increases, too – we will be building at a higher rate, and our current rates have already mostly produced our first Atomic Bomb. We can produce a new one, now, every 5 months, so 2 by the end of 1945. Naturally, we feel much safer, knowing we have these at our disposal to eliminate Soviet warmaking power or Industry.
Tensions continue at a low level, and the summer of 1945 passes. In August, we find that our agents in Austria have nurtured the Nazi Party there to 27%, which is within reach of our necessary level to implement a Diplomatic Annexation of Austria, which remains on the table for us. Ironically, it is not Austria that grabs international headlines that month for instability!
In the 2nd week of August, France declares a National Emergency! This great democratic power is suffering a crisis because the ruling party has about 40% of the electorate, and Action Francaise – the German-Italian sympathizing fascist party – has gained 32% of the electorate! The Socialists are beside themselves. In November, a peaceful coup replaces the social-democratic leadership with a substantially (but not entirely) fascist government. In many ways, it was just a continuation of typical French government instability, but the manner of change was less legal than at any time in several decades, and this is the first time a fascist premier has been head of government. ((note that our spies in Austria are actively influencing the government, but Germany has not tried to put spies into France for years, and they have no assignment – this wasn’t our fault!
).As we carried on into 1946, the only things happening were tech advances – various aeroplane techs, infantry techs, medium tank techs, training techs for bombers and tank commanders, industry techs, education, etc.
In January, we had achieved another advance in bombmaking technology, and so our 2 Atomic Bombs would soon turn into 5 or more before the end of 1946. The Soviet border was still tense, and manned with many infantry divisions and armored divisions, on both sides, but nothing moved. No one acted. Everyone waited.
Since Germany had achieved the stockpile levels it desired, in 1946 we began building more divisions. Three new motorized infantry divisions were begun, with tank destroyers and self-propelled artillery support. They would be ready in 1947.
On the first of August, 1946, Germany finally decided it was both, worth the risk, and the strategically appropriate time, to declare an Anschluss of Austria – the diplomatic annexation of the remnants of the old German-Austrian Empire. The Allies were, of course, very concerned about this.
The question was, HOW concerned about it would the Allies be? Ultimately? This increased Germany’s Threat, and reduced their Neutrality. Would they eventually decide that the Soviet Union was the more distant threat, and decide to deal with Germany with military force? This was always a risk. And with the United Kingdom, they were already prepared, as a country, to go to war (neutrality) if the need presented itself. France was further from such a commitment, but the threat was more closely felt.
In September, Yugoslavia was welcomed into the Axis Alliance. This was an important new addition to the Anti-Comintern Pact, but really what Germany needed was a second front – Romania, though, remained aloof, and far too sympathetic with the Allies, rather than the Axis. Despite this, they were moving closer to the Axis very gradually. After the Anschluss, there were people who recommended claiming the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia, too, and completing Hitler’s planned reunion of the German peoples. But the government was wary of this step, which might be a step too far for the Allies. It remained under consideration.
Research improved aerial coordination of operations, such as bombing raids along the front, and behind the lines. Also, strategic rocket technologies – all of them – continued to improve, having been brought to level 3 since the first rockets were fielded.
With the addition of Yugoslavia to the Axis, Bulgaria finally had a land route to assist against the Soviet Union, should war come. Germany was stronger, with the addition of Austria, her industry, her resources, and her army and air force (generally Italian Fiats). Germany was ready, with atomic weapons and high-tech army and air units. If war came, Germany and the Axis would defend themselves.
The question was, did the Soviets consider themselves strong enough to come across that border? And what of France and the UK? Relations with Britain were still strong, even though they seemed more willing to go to war, if called for. But France was coming closer to that day gradually – neutrality was lessening, and Germany’s Threat increased every time she committed some “reckless” act (such as the Anschluss) and every time she deployed a new military unit (which she had to, in order to defend against Russia!).
And did the USSR now have the atomic bomb themselves? It certainly seemed possible, if not likely, considering how close behind Germany she was in such research. Tense months, month after month.
p.s. And, for those of you who might think this AAR is close to its end, I want to let you know, it's nowhere near it's end -- it's only beginning!
Did the French leave the Allies after the coup? I really think that is what should happen, if it hasn't already.
well, if war occurs, it will be short ... you only have 15 months to the game ends. Not sure if you're better with Rumania in or out the axis - depends on if the task with the Soviets is to desparately fend them off (when just fighting in E Prussia/Poland may well be the thing to do) or if you think you can launch a decent counterattack (when a longer front may help stretch their lines a bit) ... tense indeed
That's not a fascist but a Paternal Autocrat party actually. They are relatively content with being in either the Allies or the Axis.
Actually, in my USA game I just finished, the game didn't end in 1948; I could have theoretically kept going as long as I wanted (no mod, other than the most recent SF beta patch).
I'm pretty sure he already did, as he asked how to change the end date a few months ago
Oh, and here's an interesting little tidbit. Historically, in the late 30's before the war broke out, Hitler and his mad cohorts planned to start WW2 themselves, but sometime between '45 and '47 instead of '39. That's where their Plan Z came from, since they wanted to present a credible threat to the UK, so after France was beaten they could force the UK to sign a peace treaty, using the expanded modern Kriegsmarine as a threat. Anyway, now that it's '46, it's around the time for the war to start as planned, so maybe Rens's plan wasn't to stay peaceful the entire time, but rather to build up and strike when he was ready
Interesting times in France! But, curiously, the last image shows a Social Democratic government in power, so what has happened there now? Another election?
