Kosova should be Albanian culture

[DarkLordMack]

Yes I know this is a tense one. No I'm not trying to start an ethnic conflict on the forums. Objectively there is little to no evidence to label Kosovo as Serbian, in addition this leaves Albania a OPM culture while combing Bosniaks and Serbians. If Bosnia is to be Serbian why can't Kosovo be Albanian?

Language map of Albanian speakers, dark blue is majority light blue minority

 

[Soviet Onion]

Kosovo wasn't majority albanian until the later parts of the eu4 period (1600s IIRC)

 

[NetherViking]

I think historic evidence may be more compelling than a modern map. Part of the reason that region is so diverse and mixed up is the events in the game's time period, right?

If Kosovo was dominated by Albanian speakers in the mid 15th century I would totally agree with you. I simply don't know myself.

A fellow a while ago made a good case about Bosnians deserving their own culture subgroup and had historic articles backing it.

 

[DarkLordMack]

Im sorry but you can't just drop something like that with no links and expect it to be taken seriously. Did a majority of Serbians in Kosovo start speaking Albanian suddenly? why? Did albanians only move to the region in the 1600's? why?

 

[Straigthtsilver]

Nope, Albanians didn't become the majority in Kosovo until well into the 20th century.

It amuses me to see you say there's no evidence for a Serbian majority in Kosovo in the 15th century, then you provide a modern map as your 'evidence.'

 

[DarkLordMack]

"The ethnic composition of Kosovo's population during this period included Serbs, Albanians, and Vlachs along with a token number of Greeks, Armenians, Saxons, and Bulgarians, according to Serbian monastic charters or chrysobulls. A majority of the names given in the charters are overwhelmingly Slavic rather than Albanian. This has been interpreted as evidence of an overwhelming Serbian majority. This claim seems to be supported by the Turkish cadastral tax-census (defter) of 1455 which took into account religion and language and found an overwhelming Serb majority. But, since there are many examples of both Slavic and Albanian names occurring within the same family, name evidence must be treated with caution;[9] giving children "foreign" names can occur through inter-marriage, through imitation of a socially superior class from a different ethnic group, or simply through fashion." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Kosovo

 

[Zelius]

"The ethnic composition of Kosovo's population during this period included Serbs, Albanians, and Vlachs along with a token number of Greeks, Armenians, Saxons, and Bulgarians, according to Serbian monastic charters or chrysobulls. A majority of the names given in the charters are overwhelmingly Slavic rather than Albanian. This has been interpreted as evidence of an overwhelming Serbian majority. This claim seems to be supported by the Turkish cadastral tax-census (defter) of 1455 which took into account religion and language and found an overwhelming Serb majority. But, since there are many examples of both Slavic and Albanian names occurring within the same family, name evidence must be treated with caution;[9] giving children "foreign" names can occur through inter-marriage, through imitation of a socially superior class from a different ethnic group, or simply through fashion." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Kosovo

I can't tell whether you are arguing For or Against.

It seems you are promoting the status quo 'not enough evidence to be changed'.

 

[DarkLordMack]

The only evidence I can find of a Albanian shift is in Serbian sources, which blame the Ottoman invasion. Which, realistically, is a little too convenient. Smacks of shoring up a dubious claim to a formerly controlled region by claiming your culture used to be the majority there before the results of terrible oppression. Realistically the region was always mixed, and was probably majority Albanian even under Serbian control.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

So, you provide us with evidence that heavily implies it was majority Slavic in 1455, and use it to support the idea of Albanian majority at the time simply because it's possible that some of the people with Slavic names might have been Albanians?

 

[DarkLordMack]

Its pretty simple Zelius, im pointing out that the same sources which show a Serbian majority show people with Albanian names in the same families as people with Serbian names. As the quote says, name evidence must be taken with caution. There are numerous reasons for using foreign names, certainly it is not definitive proof of a cultural shift.

 

[DarkLordMack]

"giving children "foreign" names can occur through inter-marriage, through imitation of a socially superior class from a different ethnic group, or simply through fashion." It can be easily argued that the prevalence of Serbian names is a reflection of the Serbian Elite that existed at the time in the region, as the Serb elite declined under the Ottoman Empire Serbian became less popular for adoption.

 

[Daddl]

All of Balkan should be either Turkish or Austrian. I'm surely able to find maps to support this.

 

[ImperatorLJ]

-grabs popcorn-

 

[DanubianCossak]

Im replying here just for the record.

Danub was here.

Im watching you.

 

[DarkLordMack]

I think folks need to think long and hard about whether they really want to argue that Ottoman control incentivized Serbs to start using Albanian or incentivized Albanian migration to Kosovo. Somehow. For some unknown reason.

 

[Lord910]

KOSOVO IS SERBIAN!

 

[DarkLordMack]

Oh shit Danub! Fuck why did I have to make my first post about ethnic conflict xO

 

[ThePatriotOfDreumel]

Don't know if troll or stupid.

I like a good joke time to time, but this is just asking for flamewars.

Edit: see.

 

[DarkLordMack]

Honestly this is largely me tired of purging one province albanian culture even as friendly humanist commonwealth, come on guys would two provinces be so bad?

 

[DanubianCossak]

Oh shit Danub! Fuck why did I have to make my first post about ethnic conflict xO

Too late. I saw it. I was here.